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sockpuppet
08-02-09, 23:56
Hate to be the one to bring this up but is anyone considering a first aid/emergency aid style course for this trip.

This was made more "prominent" last weekend as my parents were out for a walk in the Leicestershire country side when a member of the walking group they were with collapsed. My dad (also a trained first aider) performed CPR while the air ambulance responded. Sadly the walker was declared dead on arrival at hospital.

Now this was only a few miles from a major city. I'm already a trained First Aider and really think that people should have at least the basic training on CPR etc. Not sure what other peoples thoughts are but although were not going to the central congo even the roadside in a developed country is a real shitty place to find out you wished you had the training.

I'm going to look into some decent medical training (anyone got any suggestions), mainly becuase I'm looking at going solo south afterwards and want to be able to look after myself but if anyone wants to join me then I'll try and find some training where we can both make it!

Good/bad idea - comments and suggestions welcome.

KMD
09-02-09, 01:00
In my job we have to have first aid training, and usually it's been the run of the mill st john's or red cross cos they were the cheapest providers, and it's always been the kind you would fall asleep in. Recently though we bought in a guy who was genuinely ex forces top notch. (think Embassy siege).

I can't think of his company name off the top of my head, but I'll get it. This chap had us more confident in dealing with trauma situations in only a few days than any amount of training we'd had in the past. He actually made it interesting. I'd have paid my own money to learn from him, he was that good.

KMD
09-02-09, 01:11
Anubis training. www.anubisltd.com

The trainer is called Derrick.

Crapaud
09-02-09, 06:46
Not sure what other peoples thoughts are but although were not going to the central congo even the roadside in a developed country is a real shitty place to find out you wished you had the training.

.

We are going through Mauritania which is probably worse than central Congo for medical facilities outside of major towns. Is is certainly not a developed country.

Your suggestion is very good about first aid training just to cover the basics and most importantly tell people what NOT to do etc.

neil 23
09-02-09, 07:28
Hate to be the one to bring this up but is anyone considering a first aid/emergency aid style course for this trip.

This was made more "prominent" last weekend as my parents were out for a walk in the Leicestershire country side when a member of the walking group they were with collapsed. My dad (also a trained first aider) performed CPR while the air ambulance responded. Sadly the walker was declared dead on arrival at hospital.

Now this was only a few miles from a major city. I'm already a trained First Aider and really think that people should have at least the basic training on CPR etc. Not sure what other peoples thoughts are but although were not going to the central congo even the roadside in a developed country is a real shitty place to find out you wished you had the training.

I'm going to look into some decent medical training (anyone got any suggestions), mainly becuase I'm looking at going solo south afterwards and want to be able to look after myself but if anyone wants to join me then I'll try and find some training where we can both make it!

Good/bad idea - comments and suggestions welcome.



Great idea !! :thumb

Milk Tray Man
09-02-09, 07:59
Get's my vote especially if its bike based and covers safe removal of lids. It would be nice to know that chap with the Leatherman in his hands knows what bits to leave alone when operating!

Uinneag
09-02-09, 17:53
Joining first responders as just like Mauritania it's a third world up here.
We have Single manned ambulance's :mad:

harry
09-02-09, 18:31
Heard a quite shocking statistic the other day, only 2% of people who receive

CPR from 1st aiders survive. NOT Parameds.:(

russ996duke
09-02-09, 18:50
Heard a quite shocking statistic the other day, only 2% of people who receive

CPR from 1st aiders survive. NOT Parameds.:(

not a reflection on the quality of the cpr given, more likley to be the nature of the condition that created need for cpr, i.e heart attack....etc....it is not a panacea, its more likely that those who are present feel that they did their best, even tho' most cases are lost causes, anyway!!!

Betty Swollocks
09-02-09, 19:18
I did a 5 day first aid at work course 6 months ago. It included de-fib training, but we are unlikely to be able to afford one of those for the trip.
We were told that CPR on it's own is no good without a de-fibrilator, although it should be done until one arrives.
I almost convinced my GP, who is a keen biker, to tag along. He was up for it till I mentioned Gambia. He talked about bodies floating in the rivers etc and backed out. :eek: I haven't researched his claims any further.

bowser
09-02-09, 19:45
Heard a quite shocking statistic the other day, only 2% of people who receive

CPR from 1st aiders survive. NOT Parameds.:(


Just as a point all that CPR does is keep blood pumping around the system, you do have to breathe in air as well or the blood has nothing to take with it as it goes round the system.
The number of people you see pumping the chest like buggery but forgetting to give the poor victim oxygen.

But you cannot get a heart going with CPR it is just to keep you going enough until the medics get there with a jump start kit.

Oh and if your going to have a heart attack make sure its an paramedic and NOT a doctor that turns up if you can ( ;-) ) doctors have to do CPR and Mouth to mouth for 5 minutes and get it right better than 50% of the time, medics have to do it for 20 minutes and get it right 90% of the time, doctors are hopeless at first aid !!!

Baron von Munchausen
09-02-09, 20:06
Just volunteered to be a first responder in my village - looks like a good way to learn the ropes.
been in St John for a year, but to be honest you dont very often get any practical experience.

a relative of mine has been a paramedic for a long time and its a job you only really learn by doing it.

sockpuppet
09-02-09, 21:02
Getting some quotes for first aid training. We'll probably just end up doing them seperatly due to the geographical location!

First bike on scene courses are looking at being around 80 a head. I've asked for prices for normal and longer first aid courses then peolpe can see what they want to do.

Berin
09-02-09, 21:10
Some details on one that was run for some of thew ADVriders here (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=387534&highlight=fbos)

paintman
10-02-09, 21:25
doctors have to do CPR and Mouth to mouth for 5 minutes and get it right better than 50% of the time, medics have to do it for 20 minutes

This is great thinking, however I'me just a tad concerned if one were to have a little "siesta" will there be a queue of tossers all licking there lips in preparation of a bit of mouth to mouth ? :hug :ymca

STUBBS
10-02-09, 23:22
Oh and if your going to have a heart attack make sure its an paramedic and NOT a doctor that turns up if you can ( ;-) ) doctors have to do CPR and Mouth to mouth for 5 minutes and get it right better than 50% of the time, medics have to do it for 20 minutes and get it right 90% of the time, doctors are hopeless at first aid !!!

even b etter hope the doctors nurse practitioner turns up:mmmm

(RIP) Nakambale
11-02-09, 14:48
I'm not "current" on my first aid, but I was thinking of doing some sort of refresher.

freeloader
14-02-09, 22:11
Don't know how I managed to miss this thread the first time round, but I'm ashamed to say I've never had any first aid training (apart from making a sling for my arm in the Scouts). Which I'd better say was a long time ago.:D

adamneeds
14-02-09, 23:34
in terms of cpr upto 7 mins of 02 in blood. before 02 starvation.

remember

Catastrophic bleed
Danger
Response
c spine
Airway
Breathing
Circulation

red basic black if trained.

2 breathes 30 compressions around 1/5 of chest depth.

cpr can help resus is only successful if defib is carried out.

Brendy
15-02-09, 01:29
[QUOTE=bowser;1720205]Just as a point all that CPR does is keep blood pumping around the system, you do have to breathe in air as well or the blood has nothing to take with it as it goes round the system.
The number of people you see pumping the chest like buggery but forgetting to give the poor victim oxygen.

But you cannot get a heart going with CPR it is just to keep you going enough until the medics get there with a jump start kit.




Sorry to tell ya dude, but there is no such thing as a jump start kit. A defibrillator , contrary to common belief, does not restart the heart- it actually stops it and the heart then restarts itself. That of course means it can only be used in certain cardiac conditions, and not the flat-lining one we see on TV.

As regards CPR, it actually includes the air-in bit. If someone is just pounding on the chest, it aint CPR (in the same way 2 bits of bread together aint a sandwich with no filling--they're just 2 bits of bread!)

If you're heading into the boonies, you should have someone with some medical skill. The problem is, learning it isn't enough--it also needs some practice, because when you come face to face with the real thing, the biggest difficulty is keeping cool enough to actually do something. The other thing is that 1st/ambulance aid can only do so much. You still need a doctor/surgeon somewhere not too far down the line--dont forget your "Golden Hour".

Brendy

GSmonkey
15-02-09, 08:17
I've done a weeks first aid training - the Health and Safety at Work one. Very good, I learnt a lot (most of which I've forgotten a year later). One of the instructors was a biker, so he also showed me how to safely remove a helmet (only to be done if patient not breathing).

One thing he did say is that even without training, if you see a defib unit hanging on a wall nearby, use it, even if not trained. He say's you can't go wrong.

Brendy
15-02-09, 12:50
One thing he did say is that even without training, if you see a defib unit hanging on a wall nearby, use it, even if not trained. He say's you can't go wrong.[/QUOTE]


He obviously means an automatic machine. The thing is you still can go very much wrong--if you are touching the pads or patient when it goes off, you're gonna fry too!:rob

B

adamneeds
15-02-09, 13:25
One thing he did say is that even without training, if you see a defib unit hanging on a wall nearby, use it, even if not trained. He say's you can't go wrong.


He obviously means an automatic machine. The thing is you still can go very much wrong--if you are touching the pads or patient when it goes off, you're gonna fry too!:rob

B[/QUOTE]

helps if you listen to the instructions the defib gives in this case :D.
and yes training helps and first aid, trauma (in my case) training are to very different skills and training and regular practice are necessary to maintain skills.

dont forget to do a handover when professional/medical help arrives.

SAMPLE.

Chaz
15-02-09, 14:34
Sorry to tell ya dude, but there is no such thing as a jump start kit. A defibrillator , contrary to common belief, does not restart the heart- it actually stops it and the heart then restarts itself. That of course means it can only be used in certain cardiac conditions, and not the flat-lining one we see on TV.


As regards CPR, it actually includes the air-in bit. If someone is just pounding on the chest, it aint CPR (in the same way 2 bits of bread together aint a sandwich with no filling--they're just 2 bits of bread!)

If you're heading into the boonies, you should have someone with some medical skill. The problem is, learning it isn't enough--it also needs some practice, because when you come face to face with the real thing, the biggest difficulty is keeping cool enough to actually do something. The other thing is that 1st/ambulance aid can only do so much. You still need a doctor/surgeon somewhere not too far down the line--dont forget your "Golden Hour".

Brendy


:clap:clap:clap

Someone knows their stuff!

sockpuppet
15-02-09, 15:12
To be fair any of you keel over on me and I'm just gonna hook you up to the battery on my 1150 and crank it over.

elevensies
20-02-09, 00:03
interesting read this.

just goes to show that a little bit of knowledge goes a long way.


ps, CPR is now 15 to 2, and not everyone wants to give mouth to mouth, so as long as the airway is clear, the head tilted back (unless c spine injury, in which case you would need to do a jaw thrust) then keep compressing the chest to 1/3 of the body, should be sufficient until medical help arrives.

Important note, is that before doing ANYTHING ring 999 whilst your making sure YOU and OTHERS are clear of danger.
I also wouldnt recommend removing helmets. Its a two person job. And those two persons should be highly trained.

I am hoping to put together a 'First on Scene' training package for motorcyclists, it wont be an approved certified thing, its more awareness and action.
Iv seen too many accidents to last a lifetime, and seen enough poorly managed casualties, all because we have a desire to help, or muck in.
Im not knocking first aid training im all for it, but for us we need something a bit more focused.

harry

(RIP) ugg
20-02-09, 00:46
im due for my third "appointed first aider" coarse , we have to do em every year, last one was at kellingnley pit near knottingley.

previous to that was miners rescue near cliffe selby north yorkshire

carry a stun gun that will get em goin again,:eek: he ,he ,he

ugg

elevensies
20-02-09, 01:06
:eek: if nowt else will.

Betty Swollocks
22-02-09, 00:20
ps, CPR is now 15 to 2,




I did my First Aid Skills Enhanced course in July and it had changed again.....

30 compressions to 2 rescue breaths.

notanotherbike
22-02-09, 03:44
30 compressions to 2 rescue breaths.

:thumb2 Correct, The Resuscitation Council (UK) endorses this statement on BLS -

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</TD><TD width=525>Bystanders who have been trained in Basic Life Support (BLS) and who witness a sudden collapse in an adult should immediately initiate rescue actions by providing 30 chest compressions of adequate force and depth at a rate of 100 per minute followed by two mouth-to-mouth ventilations. The rescuer(s) should ensure that ventilations cause minimum interruption of chest compressions. At the same time, other bystanders should alert the Emergency Medical Services. This sequence of chest compressions and ventilations should be continued until professional help arrives. For lay rescuers who have not been trained in BLS, or who are not willing or unable to give mouth-to-mouth ventilations, an acceptable alternative is to give uninterrupted chest compressions at a rate of 100/minute. For those rescuers without BLS training and who receive telephone instructions for BLS, the preferred instruction is to give uninterrupted chest compressions until professional help arrives.



Note, change with a willing bystander every 2 mins if possible to avoid personal exhaustion, if your on your own - continue untill you are unable to carry on.

There are many difficult situtions/problems that can arise at the time that BLS is required or when dealing with an emergency situation, & by learning/training in First aid, it could go a long way to reducing the effects of illness & injury, & indeed save someone's life.

I have attended 2x First Bike on Scene (FBOS) courses & other courses delivered by North West Ambulance Servive (NWAS) at Preston & would recommend there excellent services without question. Courses are usually held at there office in preston (great modern place, private yard for bikes) but they offer to come to train groups anywhere in the country, if you have a venue & some GSer's they should sort something out......
I have no links to/family involved in/payments from this place, just want to pass the info on :thumb, John Ward is recommeded - He's a great teacher.

Web linky - http://www.firstaid-training.com/firstbikeonscene.asp
Email/Phone John Ward - john.ward@nwas.nhs.uk (john.ward@nwas.nhs.uk) or call 0870 8330 999.

NAB. :bow


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