BMW indicator system ?

Tiger-G

Guest
Hello All,

Hope you don't mind me dropping in your forum to try and get some info on the BMW indicator system ?

In particular, I mean on a bike like the F650 as a learner bike.

I'm a motorcycle Instructor in the UK and would like to know how long it takes someone new to bikes to fully get used to the BMW indicator system so they never hit the horn, never have a problem cancelling, never have to look down at the indicator switchgear and can do this 100% of the time ?

How long do you think it would take someone to get used to it, who has just completed a CBT on a 125cc Jap bike with conventional switchgear and has gone onto the F650, bearing in mind he is on a very steep learning curve and new to bikes and only has aprox 12 hours on the bike to pass his test ?

Do you think the self cancelling mechanism would have any safety implications to a new to bikes trainee on test, i.e. - cancelling before getting to a right hand turn roundabout ??


I look forward to your input :)
 
I'd guess that seeing as its all pretty new to a learner anyway that a few days use should see them adapted to the BMW system. I cant even remember how long it took to adapt after about 4 years on jap bikes so I guess it was pretty painless.
 
I personally took to it straight away, and as already said, the newbie wouldn't have had much time to get used to the conventional way anyway.

With regards to the self cancelling, I personally don't think it's a good idea to learn on a bike with this as they could learn with bad habits making it much harder to rectify in the future. Turning off your indicators is hugely important and I think learning by your mistakes is one of the best ways to learn. I remember several occasions my instructor shouting at me over the radio to turn my indicators off, and it was a valuable lesson.

Just my two penneth worth :thumb2
 
ShaunT279 said:
I thought the 650 had the same system as any jap bike, only the big gs' get the "different" system:nenau
Click to expand...

The F650GS twin has the three switch system.

Interestingly, I see the F800R has a single indicator switch. I do like my F800GS but I've started to have thoughts about the R - I'll be taking one for a test ride soon, I reckon...
 
i never got used to it ,,,,
put a kissan unit on so the same" on" switch cancels too, like a hardley drivable, self cancelling too,
 
If you otherwise have to teach someone to slide a switch left or right to indicate, is it actually any harder to teach them to press a button on the left to indicate left, or a button on the right to indicate right?

Fair enough, people might very occasionally hit the horn instead of the left indicator, but once you've actually ridden for more than an hour or so your hands should have a memory for what is where.

If someone can't get to grips with something as simple as an indicator system, whichever type it is, are they really showing the sort of coordination you would hope for from a rider?
 
freeloader said:
Interestingly, I see the F800R has a single indicator switch. I do like my F800GS but I've started to have thoughts about the R - I'll be taking one for a test ride soon, I reckon...
Click to expand...

I rode the F800R a while ago (when my 800GS was in for service). It's a nice thing to ride that's for sure, and I loved the looks. The big problem for me is that I found it very cramped :(
 
macpherson said:
If you otherwise have to teach someone to slide a switch left or right to indicate, is it actually any harder to teach them to press a button on the left to indicate left, or a button on the right to indicate right?

Fair enough, people might very occasionally hit the horn instead of the left indicator, but once you've actually ridden for more than an hour or so your hands should have a memory for what is where.

If someone can't get to grips with something as simple as an indicator system, whichever type it is, are they really showing the sort of coordination you would hope for from a rider?
Click to expand...

.... have to agree with this one.

Tiger, welcome to the forum. I'll budge your post over to another section of the forum for you.
 
Tiger-G said:
Hello All,

Hope you don't mind me dropping in your forum to try and get some info on the BMW indicator system ?

In particular, I mean on a bike like the F650 as a learner bike.

I'm a motorcycle Instructor in the UK and would like to know how long it takes someone new to bikes to fully get used to the BMW indicator system so they never hit the horn, never have a problem cancelling, never have to look down at the indicator switchgear and can do this 100% of the time ?

How long do you think it would take someone to get used to it, who has just completed a CBT on a 125cc Jap bike with conventional switchgear and has gone onto the F650, bearing in mind he is on a very steep learning curve and new to bikes and only has aprox 12 hours on the bike to pass his test ?

Do you think the self cancelling mechanism would have any safety implications to a new to bikes trainee on test, i.e. - cancelling before getting to a right hand turn roundabout ??


I look forward to your input :)
Click to expand...

Its simple and quick find a block 4 or 5 laps around left cancell, left cancell etc then the other way right cancell right cancell................. easey peasy your student will know the block just concentrate more on the indicators:thumb2 practice makes purfect.:thumb

ShaunT279 said:
I thought the 650 had the same system as any jap bike, only the big gs' get the "different" system:nenau
Click to expand...
hey your only a few cc's away:thumb2
orange said:
Been riding a GS for 4 years. I still get the horn by mistake.:confused:
Click to expand...

I get the horn on the way home if the misses is home but i think thats deliberate :thumb2
 
Tiger-G said:
Hello All,

Hope you don't mind me dropping in your forum to try and get some info on the BMW indicator system ?

In particular, I mean on a bike like the F650 as a learner bike.

I'm a motorcycle Instructor in the UK and would like to know how long it takes someone new to bikes to fully get used to the BMW indicator system so they never hit the horn, never have a problem cancelling, never have to look down at the indicator switchgear and can do this 100% of the time ?

How long do you think it would take someone to get used to it, who has just completed a CBT on a 125cc Jap bike with conventional switchgear and has gone onto the F650, bearing in mind he is on a very steep learning curve and new to bikes and only has aprox 12 hours on the bike to pass his test ?

Do you think the self cancelling mechanism would have any safety implications to a new to bikes trainee on test, i.e. - cancelling before getting to a right hand turn roundabout ??


I look forward to your input :)
Click to expand...

I really think you are complicating something that BMW think is logical. Of all the things that a new learner has to cope with, the indicators are the least of their worries. (Clutch, Gears, Throttle, Potholes, Wet Manholes, White Lines, Zebra Crossings......... Oh and don't forget you are invisible to motorist.) Coming from 30+ years of Jap and Italian bikes, it did take me a few rides to get used to this system. However, I'm sure that if I was new to biking, it would come to me much sooner. Remember, they listen to your every word (you are the expert). If you tell them that all indicators are like the ones they learned on, then this system will be a complete surprise.
 
macpherson said:
If you otherwise have to teach someone to slide a switch left or right to indicate, is it actually any harder to teach them to press a button on the left to indicate left, or a button on the right to indicate right?

Fair enough, people might very occasionally hit the horn instead of the left indicator, but once you've actually ridden for more than an hour or so your hands should have a memory for what is where.

If someone can't get to grips with something as simple as an indicator system, whichever type it is, are they really showing the sort of coordination you would hope for from a rider?
Click to expand...


Thanks for the replies so far.

Ok, just to use this as an example. Let's say you are a brand new rider on a very steep learning curve and you were given a bike with the rear brake and gear lever on opposite sides and you've got 8 hours training before your bike test, would you be able to master that so you can do it correctly 100% of the time ? Bearing in mind you are also being tought how to read the road ahead, how to ride to a certain system to satisfy the DSA, look out for everyone else on the road trying to knock you off, plus the intense pressure of a test ?


Personally, I think not, but would be keen to hear your views :)
 
Tiger-G said:
Thanks for the replies so far.

Ok, just to use this as an example. Let's say you are a brand new rider on a very steep learning curve and you were given a bike with the rear brake and gear lever on opposite sides and you've got 8 hours training before your bike test, would you be able to master that so you can do it correctly 100% of the time ? Bearing in mind you are also being tought how to read the road ahead, how to ride to a certain system to satisfy the DSA, look out for everyone else on the road trying to knock you off, plus the intense pressure of a test ?


Personally, I think not, but would be keen to hear your views :)
Click to expand...

Surely if they were a brand new rider, you should be expecting them to learn no matter what side in the allotted time...? If they hadn't ridden before then they wouldn't know that that is not the accepted side for brake and gear levers and would just get used to it....... :nenau

Personally I think learning to use the indicators (in whatever way the bike is set up) as a simple function without too much emphasis, you would learn pretty quickly. If you deliberately make it a big deal, it then becomes a big deal..?!
 
The reason I'm asking this is because where I teach they are thinking of going from Japanese Direct Access bikes to BMW F650's.

As an Instructor I get a new to bikes trainee to use the conventional system to indicate on a 125cc Jap bike. Let's say they do a two day basic training course to get their cbt. When I'm teaching them in the yard it takes ages to get them to stop looking down at the indicator switch to use the signals. By the end of the two day course, due to the ergonomic layout of the Jap style switch gear, they have mastered the system, although they hit the horn every now and then.

Then they move up to Direct Access bikes to take their test. They now not only have the bigger, faster bike to deal with, but also now have to master a new type of signaling system, that is unlike what they have been using. Personally I don't think this is good practice.

When I test rode the BMW as I came to a right hand roundabout I signalled right in plenty of time and by the time I got to the roundabout the self cancel feature had cancelled the signal and a car pulled onto the roundabout in front of me. I think this is a potential safety issue. If this had happened to a trainee on test he would have at the very least failed due to incorrectly timed signals and at the most been knocked off his bike.

If I signal left to go into a side road and the signal cancels before I get there, then again that would be a test fail for an incorrectly timed signal.

The point I'm making is I don't think the F650 is suitable for novice riders brought through the system on Jap bikes. When I rode the bike I struggled with the signalling system and I had more than enough spare brain capacity to deal with it, a trainee has very little capacity left because they have so much else to concentrate on.

I didn't want to influence the replys to my original post by saying I was for or against it, but now you know my stance. I would still be interested in hearing your opinions though. Many thanks :)
 
After 2 days I doubt that the Jap system is imprinted in their minds.

I had Jap bikes for 10 years before I rode a BM and it took all of 2 minutes to learn the BM system. I now ride an older F650 which has a Jap style system. I think the non Jap system is by far the easiest to us, especially with thick gloves on.

As for riding a bike with gears and brakes on the wrong side, yep done that too, didn't have an issue with that either cause the levers felt different so very easy to learn quickly.

Not so many years ago Jap cars all had their indicators on the wrong side, only takes a couple of times washing the window before you get it.

Personally I believe that it is best for them to learn the BM system, they'll all be riding BM's soon anyhoo :D:D:D
 
SamD said:
I rode the F800R a while ago (when my 800GS was in for service). It's a nice thing to ride that's for sure, and I loved the looks. The big problem for me is that I found it very cramped :(
Click to expand...

I do like its looks (the R, that is), except for that tiny little flyscreen thingy - although I suppose there must be a reason for its existence.

I suspect I wouldn't find it too cramped, given that to reach the ground on the 800GS I'm on tiptoes with the standard seat (I get the same effect sitting on an R1200GSA) but I hope to give it a longer test ride soon.
 
Tiger-G said:
The reason I'm asking this is because where I teach they are thinking of going from Japanese Direct Access bikes to BMW F650's.

As an Instructor I get a new to bikes trainee to use the conventional system to indicate on a 125cc Jap bike. Let's say they do a two day basic training course to get their cbt. When I'm teaching them in the yard it takes ages to get them to stop looking down at the indicator switch to use the signals. By the end of the two day course, due to the ergonomic layout of the Jap style switch gear, they have mastered the system, although they hit the horn every now and then.

Then they move up to Direct Access bikes to take their test. They now not only have the bigger, faster bike to deal with, but also now have to master a new type of signaling system, that is unlike what they have been using. Personally I don't think this is good practice.

When I test rode the BMW as I came to a right hand roundabout I signalled right in plenty of time and by the time I got to the roundabout the self cancel feature had cancelled the signal and a car pulled onto the roundabout in front of me. I think this is a potential safety issue. If this had happened to a trainee on test he would have at the very least failed due to incorrectly timed signals and at the most been knocked off his bike.

If I signal left to go into a side road and the signal cancels before I get there, then again that would be a test fail for an incorrectly timed signal.

The point I'm making is I don't think the F650 is suitable for novice riders brought through the system on Jap bikes. When I rode the bike I struggled with the signalling system and I had more than enough spare brain capacity to deal with it, a trainee has very little capacity left because they have so much else to concentrate on.

I didn't want to influence the replys to my original post by saying I was for or against it, but now you know my stance. I would still be interested in hearing your opinions though. Many thanks :)
Click to expand...

That is interesting and as I haven't tested the self cancellation I can't comment. Can I assume that the system has a time delay from initial push and that is the reason for going out early?

As for next point, many people have different ways of logic and thought process, with respect, you may have struggled, maybe the case is that leave each to their own ability... the more things are made easier the less people tend to think. If they are going to ride a BMW they would have to learn it anyway and that means out on the road! We should all be encouraged to think outside of the box sometimes.... :thumb2

Whatever is decided, thanks for taking the time to ask on behalf of the newbie.. :thumb

On another note is the new test as ill thought out as we read??
 
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