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The Grey One
20-11-13, 09:11
I have a question about route waypoints not all being transfered to a device.

I use a 2610 on the bike but have recently purchased a Nuvi 2495 for the car. As some of you might know I handle a lot of GPS devices loading routes for our hotel guests. The Nuvi appears to have the same software as the 350 series, it certainly works in exactly the same way the the same functions and screens.

For our marketing tour I have have been creating routes with multiple waypoints (typically 10 or more) Each waypoint is a call along a route. Every time I transfer to the device (either from Basecamp or Mapsource) I find that the route does not include all waypoints- typically there will be only 4 out of the original 10. All waypoints are transferred to " favourites" under a file title that matches the route. I can see no way of converting that favourites list to a route. The route shown in "apps" then has to be modified on the unit, a slow and frustrating process given that I have already done it on the PC. The same problem occurs if I transfer the route to a friends 660.

I have Emailed Garmin support as I have no time for waiting for them to answer the phone at the moment. After 4 days I got a reply that did not answer the question at all and just showed that the person responding had not read or understood the issue.
I have to say that if that response was my only experience of Garmin I would never buy a Garmin product ever again.

Do any of you good people (or even some bad ones!) have any useful suggestions?

John

Bumpkin
20-11-13, 09:56
Hi John

Are you using the same mapping on the unit as is installed on your computer? Forgive me if I'm incorrect but ISTR that you use OpenStreetMap data on your 2610. If you're using that for route planning and then transferring the route to a GPS with Garmin/Navteq mapping data there maybe an issue with some of your routing points being off the road. From past experience I wouldn't have though this would have been an issue unless they were wildly out but it might be worth a look if that's the case.

I use a 660 and all way-points and via-points get included in the routes that I plot, well I haven't had problems with routes doing as you describe.

Have you tried exporting the route as a GPX file to the Nuvi or Zumo? Place it in the /Garmin/GPX/ folder on the GPS. This is the technique I use these days. I accept that this isn't possible on your 2610.

If you want to send me the route (mailto:ukgser-routing-oddity-2013@cwilder.co.uk) I can have a look for you.

paul08
20-11-13, 10:05
A long shot, but does this Garmin Support page help:

http://support.garmin.com/support/searchSupport/case.faces?caseId=%7b65814150-50b3-11dc-4ec8-000000000000%7d

(I wanted to know if I could transfer routes, created on Basecamp, to the Nuvi 3490 that I use in my car. I had tried doing it and could not find the route that Basecamp said it had transferred)

The Grey One
20-11-13, 10:32
Hi John

Are you using the same mapping on the unit as is installed on your computer? Forgive me if I'm incorrect but ISTR that you use OpenStreetMap data on your 2610. If you're using that for route planning and then transferring the route to a GPS with Garmin/Navteq mapping data there maybe an issue with some of your routing points being off the road. From past experience I wouldn't have though this would have been an issue unless they were wildly out but it might be worth a look if that's the case.

I use a 660 and all way-points and via-points get included in the routes that I plot, well I haven't had problems with routes doing as you describe.

Have you tried exporting the route as a GPX file to the Nuvi or Zumo? Place it in the /Garmin/GPX/ folder on the GPS. This is the technique I use these days. I accept that this isn't possible on your 2610.

If you want to send me the route (mailto:ukgser-routing-oddity-2013@cwilder.co.uk) I can have a look for you.

Thanks for that, yes I am using Openstreetmaps on this computer, I do have the latest Garmin maps back in Austria. Downloading them onto the laptop here in the UK could be a problem, the internet connection where we are staying is slow. I don't think the maps should be the cause though. All of the waypoints transfer into the favourites when I send the route and they all can be later added to the route without problems. I have noticed that several 660s do the same. I load a route for our hotel guests, say a circular route including the Grossglockner, the route might have 12 waypoints but often the device only shows 8 on the route. The route itself will be intact-that is it follows the roads as created but waypoints, which might be places of interest or points put in to force every device to take that particular road, are missing. This happens when using Garmin maps ( I have 4 different Garmin maps including the very latest plus the OSM one) so it tends to point to an issue with the device software rather than the maps. At least when this happens our guests still have a route that makes sense and one that will give them a good experience.

It is not so with the way my Nuvi has treated carefully constructed routes. We are in the middle of a big marketing push for the hotel. I arrive back in the UK at the end of October with a plan to visit as many bike dealers and clubs as possible distributing our leaflets etc. Every day we have a route plotted taking in these places, usually a circular route from where we are staying. In this way, staying with friends and relatives, we hope to cover as much of the country as possible. So each route meanders about with 10 or 12 stops per day. Every time I download the route at least half of those stops are missing. What it feels like is that the device is saying " you don't need all those stops to complete this route, nanny has sorted it out for you". As I said I can find all the route waypoints stored under the route title in favourites so they have been transferred just omitted from the route. The question is why and how can this be corrected.

Another issue is that my unit converts every custom waypoint symbol chosen in Basecamp or Mapsource into a red flag. This renders my carefully constructed database of the various dealers/bike meets/clubs useless on the device.

Obviously it's too late to sort this out for this trip, we set up at the NEC on Friday, but it does have huge implications for making and transferring routes for our guests. I spend on average an hour a day doing so at the moment (usually whilst the guests have breakfast) I don't want to have to spend more time going through each route adding waypoints that have been omitted.

Once the bike show is over I should have time to hang on long enough to speak to someone at Garmin UK but I fear given the dreadful nature of the response to my Email that I might be wasting my time.

John

The Grey One
20-11-13, 10:33
A long shot, but does this Garmin Support page help:

http://support.garmin.com/support/searchSupport/case.faces?caseId=%7b65814150-50b3-11dc-4ec8-000000000000%7d

(I wanted to know if I could transfer routes, created on Basecamp, to the Nuvi 3490 that I use in my car. I had tried doing it and could not find the route that Basecamp said it had transferred)

Thanks but i can find the route-these new devices put it in "Apps" Talk about pandering to the lowest common denominator

Johm

Bumpkin
20-11-13, 12:04
Doesn't sound very good then. I would be quite upset if my 660 started to mess with my carefully crafted routes like that.

I would hope that the Garmin guys at the NEC will hopefully know more about their product that the call centre monkey who's probably reading prompts from a screen. Garmin tech support isn't what it used to be unfortunately. Victims of their own success and the explosion of GPS use mainly for your average car driver. I think the required increased number of CSRs (if you can call them that) aren't specialists any more. You might get lucky, but then again you might not.

What stand are you on? I'll be there on the 29th and would like to drop in and say Hi.

As said would be interested to see what that route does with my set-up, email it is you can.

The Grey One
20-11-13, 13:16
Doesn't sound very good then. I would be quite upset if my 660 started to mess with my carefully crafted routes like that.

I would hope that the Garmin guys at the NEC will hopefully know more about their product that the call centre monkey who's probably reading prompts from a screen. Garmin tech support isn't what it used to be unfortunately. Victims of their own success and the explosion of GPS use mainly for your average car driver. I think the required increased number of CSRs (if you can call them that) aren't specialists any more. You might get lucky, but then again you might not.

What stand are you on? I'll be there on the 29th and would like to drop in and say Hi.

As said would be interested to see what that route does with my set-up, email it is you can.

I think you are right, there is a general dumbing down in both the devices and the backup.
We are in Hall 4 Stand C51, there is no specific section for the likes of us this year so we hope people will find us. Please call in it's always good to put faces to names.

John

Bumpkin
20-11-13, 21:54
We are in Hall 4 Stand C51

Thanks John, will attempt to track you down and say hello.

The Grey One
20-11-13, 21:56
Thanks John, will attempt to track you down and say hello.

I could send you a waypoint!

PeeBee
21-11-13, 11:24
Sounds like the problems I had last and this year when I stayed with you. Routes transferred to my zumo 660 would lose waypoints and occasionally the unit would restart a circular route mid route. Never had the problems again - only routes transferred by yourself. I wonder if its conflicts within software versions and mapping products.

The Grey One
23-11-13, 22:51
Sounds like the problems I had last and this year when I stayed with you. Routes transferred to my zumo 660 would lose waypoints and occasionally the unit would restart a circular route mid route. Never had the problems again - only routes transferred by yourself. I wonder if its conflicts within software versions and mapping products.

Funny thing is this recent problem is happening on a different computer, in fact on two of our laptops and also another laptop belonging to Wilf our Dutch barman who is in the UK with us the NEC show. He has Garmin mapping, I have OSM, it occurs with routes made on both Mapsource and Basecamp too. I have finally had a sensible answer from Garmin who are asking that I send a sample route etc which i will do as soon as possible. Watch this space.

John

Wapping
24-11-13, 08:17
I had something similar occur on my last Wander on one route.

The route, from St Quentin to St Valery is about 160 miles. It was originally plotted on a PC, using Mapsource, using a 2012 version of a map. It was then transferred to a Mac, using Basecamp, using a 2013 version of a map.

Outwardly, the Mapsource and Basecamp versions looked identical. There was a slight variation in the the total mileage and the total estimated time but nothing unusual; it's quite common to see differences, particularly when switching from one map vintage to another. It is a route I had ridden before, without problems using a different device but never downloaded from Basecamp, just from Mapsource.

All was well.

Then, within say 40 miles of St Valery (so after having ridden 120 miles from St Quentin) my GPS device, whilst still displaying the correct direction / route to take, suddenly started showing the estimated mileage to destination (which should fall gradually to zero as I approach) growing mile by mile and the estimated time of arrival (which should stay reasonably fixed) as getting further and further away. In short, riding forward I was (in the eyes of the device) getting further and further away.

It didn't bother me at the time as I knew where I was going and when I was due to arrive anyway. Similarly I could still follow the purple line pre-plotted route on the device.

What I THINK happened is that somehow the device suddenly imported a viapoint or waypoint behind me, wanting me to turn around to go through it and then carry on again. That MIGHT explain the reason why the distance to destination and arrival time kept growing. I have the sound turned off and have the 'avoid U-turns' option turned on.

On closer inspection of the route, it contained a short section where two viapoints were connected by a magenta line that followed the map of the road exactly AND a straight that that connected the same two points. This is not a common occurrence but I have seen it before using other devices and other routes. I think that the device somehow gets confused, possibly because the two viapoints 'move' very slightly between one map version and another. The movement results in the device displaying two routes between the two points at once. One, wiggly (following the road exactly), the other straight A to B. That is only a guess.

I then guess that the device MIGHT assume that you intended to ride both the wiggly line AND the straight line. As you had failed to do so, the distance to destination would increase, as you had not made a U-turn to ride the straight line, too.

That is all conjecture on my part. There were too many variables for me to say why it happened.

(1) I was using a Nav 5 for the first time, whose operating system is different from earlier 660 / 550's etc. it being more Nuvi based.

(2) I had cut the route from one map vintage to another.

(3) I had cut the route from Mapsouce on a PC into Basecamp on a Mac.

(3) A Nav 5 receives its routes from a Mac differently than a 660 does from a PC. A PC running Mapsource will not 'see' a Nav 5 at all.

(4) Had I not had the time to destination / distance to destination options displayed on the Nav 5 I would never have noticed that they were growing the nearer I got to the destination.

(5) I have no way of knowing if the same glitch would have occurred had I been using a 660 as opposed to the Nav 5 or if I hadn't switched from Mapsource to Basecamp, PC to Mace, map versions.

Whilst riding, I was confident that I was riding the correct route, in the correct direction. The time to arrival and distance to arrival that suddenly increased for no apparent reason did not bother me one jot, as I could ignore them. All the same it shouldn't happen. One day I might work out (or find out) why.... I will be quite happy to learn it was operator error!

I may contact Garmin to see if they can throw dome light on it. I won't be riding too many routes for the next four months, so won't be seeing if it happens again. I had borrowed the Nav 5 from BMW, so that has gone back. I was sufficiently impressed with its overall operation to add one to my Christmas present list!