Nav 6 decision time. Get a refund or persevere with pain?

Firstly, many thanks to all the people who replied to my pleas for help with my Nav 6, which I was struggling to get to work with Basecamp, specifically that my Mac would not display the maps in my unit on Basecamp. This site was SO much more helpful and responsive than Garmin support who slow-fed me endless nonsense, and no responses from the escalation team, until I threatened to write directly to their MD for UK & Eire, Jon Oliver at which point magically I started getting very quick responses indeed from someone who knew their arse from their elbow.

As you may have read on here, some of us MacbookAir users wish to preserve our limited disk space for other uses and not keep huge map files on our MacBooks. Garmin says you can view the maps on your Nav in Basecamp, which seems like a good solution to the disk space problem. BUT there's a catch, revealed to me by Garmin support which is that in order to view the Nav's maps on the Mac, there must be a minimum of 20GB free disk space. So back to square one.

Long story short, my issue of viewing my Nav's maps an my Mac was finally resolved by freeing up 20GB of disk space, and following some advice on here, rather than Garmin's, using the Garmin USB cable instead of another USB data cable that works perfectly with every other device I own.

So problem solved. BUT there are other buts. I read on here (and elsewhere) of issues with the Nav sending people down types of road they have selected to avoid and on routes that are far from the 'fastest route' option they have selected. Of slow recalculation, causing missed turns. Of missed turns resulting in unnecessarily long detours. And of multiple crashes and resets. Of the curvy roads option routing down motorways. All of these I have personally experienced on a two week trip in Spain. Plus routes which take me into the middle of a housing estate and then tell me to do a U turn. Multiple times, multiple journeys, multiple countries. Grrrrr!!!

I find that entering a simple journey in Basecamp, for example Salisbury to Exeter, offers me an address in Birmingham with no mention of Exeter in it. I read that the car setting is better for route planning than the motorcycle setting. I fear that every time I try to use basecamp in the future I will be tripped up by yet another quirk that will require yet more questions on forums and endless frustration.

For me, the only saving grace of the Nav6 is its readability in very bright sunlight.

Is there an answer to all this, or shall I take it back and get a refund? Thoughts very welcome.

Thank you

As I use a Mac book air this is useful information, thanks. With the latest Mac book pros being so much lighter I was thinking of going that way later this year.

But maybe I will put the whole thing off until Garmin have sorted the Nav xi issues.

Personally in your shoes I'd persevere having invested so much time and frustration, good luck with whatever you do.

From what i have read you seem to have now got over the issue of your Mac not seeing the maps on your nav, and are now having issues setting the nav up to work the way you want it to, and also along with that you are struggling with basecamp.
You really need to ask yourself if you are willing to spend the time you need to,

1 learn how to set up your device and to learn to use its functions correctly, or at least the functions you need to use.

2 Learn to set up and use basecamp so that it works seamlessly with your nav.

Now only you can answer these questions, but i would be willing to bet that there are people on here who use that model of nav and have gone through some of the issues you have had and are concerned about, and have come out the other side pleased they stuck with it. The same can be said of basecamp there are people on here that think its the spawn of the devil and others who have no problem with it, and can plan a route from A to Z with every letter in between, so you are not the only person who has these issues and like you have had to make the same choice of learn or get rid.
One other thing i will say is that any problems you have there will be someone on here that will try to help.

leedude03 said:

From what i have read you seem to have now got over the issue of your Mac not seeing the maps on your nav, and are now having issues setting the nav up to work the way you want it to, and also along with that you are struggling with basecamp.
You really need to ask yourself if you are willing to spend the time you need to,

1 learn how to set up your device and to learn to use its functions correctly, or at least the functions you need to use.

2 Learn to set up and use basecamp so that it works seamlessly with your nav.

Now only you can answer these questions, but i would be willing to bet that there are people on here who use that model of nav and have gone through some of the issues you have had and are concerned about, and have come out the other side pleased they stuck with it. The same can be said of basecamp there are people on here that think its the spawn of the devil and others who have no problem with it, and can plan a route from A to Z with every letter in between, so you are not the only person who has these issues and like you have had to make the same choice of learn or get rid.
One other thing i will say is that any problems you have there will be someone on here that will try to help.

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You sound like Wapping.

There's nothing to "learn" on the Nav, it's just a sat nav, FFS. The issue that the OP, and many others, are having is that the Nav is not following the avoidances the user is setting. Curvy roads is curvy roads. Avoid motorways is avoid motorways. Unless you have "learnt" a way of recoding these avoidances so that they actually do what they are meant to?

I don't understand why some on here keep defending a shit product.

Garmin has released a below par product, which is inferior to the previous model, in many ways.

Unless they address the issues the OP has mentioned, via a software/ firmware update, I shall certainly be returning mine for a refund, and going back to a Nav V.

I encounter none of your problems using my Nav VI, nor when I use a Nav V, both used with a regular Mac and a Mac Air. Those problems that I have encountered are down to not knowing how the device operated, for example the auto-skip-waypoints setting. Now I understand it, I can use it or not as and when I chose to.

Many (not all) of the problems you read of on this forum are down to simple user error. Others are caused when bods insist on slapping their brand new device into the cradle on their motorbike 10 seconds before their epic trip into Europe, having not the slightest idea how it might work. Others are when people decide to tell the world only part of the story, leaving out key details; details of which have to be dragged out of them like blood from a stone. Yet more are down to people who insist on using third party route plotting software (like MotoGoLoco) and are then disappointed when it really doesn't always integrate fully with their Garmin device, though they have been lead to believe that it will. There seems to be no parallel support from the third party software sellers and / or their forums or owners are not trying to contact them, preferring to pile into UKGSer's GPS section to obtain help, when help should have been provided by the third party. Is Garmin and its products perfect? No. Should people try a TomTom instead? Probably, yes, maybe. Why they don't, I have no idea.

If you really cannot get on with your Nav VI, then sell it. I can sell you a fully functioning Nav V to replace it.

You sound like Wapping.

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Will that be the same Wapping who answered your midnight texts appealing for help? I guess that must be someone else.

There's nothing to "learn" on the Nav, it's just a sat nav, FFS.

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No it's not.

Garmin devices used to be just that, GPS devices; even then they had to be learnt. Look at Whatton's 'Guide for dummies' thread, posted years ago.... things did have to be learnt and they still do.

Today's Garmin devices have steadily morphed into home entertainment systems, with a GPS device bolted onto the side. This is what bikermates have demanded, as no ride is complete without, music, telephones, films, knowing (being told, in other words) how often they have changed gear and not least the owner being told where - down which roads - to ride their bike, rather than decide for themselves. Similarly, the devices are now bought and used by people who are wholly reliant on a device to tell them how to ride from A to B, as they cannot imagine plotting out a route for themselves and / or cannot read a map, most often as they cannot be arsed to do it. Their motorbike now does everything for them, with boring reliability. They get surprised - frustratingly angry to the point of piss boiling - when their mobile entertainment system doesn't.

Maybe Garmin should drop the 'wiggly roads' option entirely? Maybe Garmin should drop their multiple owner-set preference settings? Maybe Garmin should drop motorways ever being shown on maps, as no self respecting bikermate would ever use them? Maybe Garmin should strip every bloody function out of their devices and demand that everyone from now on create their own routes from scratch; after all that is what the devices used to be like and they sold tens of thousands, to lots of very happy owners.

PS You never did discover how to create a route for yourself and import it into your Nav V, did you. The Nav VI works exactly the same way. Had you learnt how to do it on your Nav V, you would be at least one step further on today.

PPS You are not obliged to buy the latest branded BMW device, at its (sometimes) premium price. Thousands of bikermates are very happy with their sometimes older generic Garmin (unbranded) devices which are at least cheaper. They use them on their BMW motorcycles. Give it a go. Failing that, buy a TomTom or get a map.

I've owned Garmin 2720, 660, 590 and now Nav V. I agree with Wapping that as the units have evolved over time, the user has more to learn in order to get the best out of them. Having got the hang of my 590, I find the Nav V to be the most robust, reliable & predictable device to date.

However, some of the OP's problems - crash and restart for example - cannot be due to user error.

I'd be looking at garmin express for firmware updates and trying to persevere but I'm not the most patient of people either when tech won't play.

I am no expert but have got the best for me out of the garmin without a computer,
Especially building routes quickly when on tour for the next day,
When creating your own routes using basecamp,
avoid curvy roads, it takes ages to calculate and the waypoints make a disjointed route, i stick with fastest route ,
With manual routing you are going where you want anyway,
The device trip planner app is very effective and easy to use in conjunction with fastest route and does some great rural roads, uk and europe,
I do most of my routes on the device as basecamp does have so many options its a bit complicated for me to get a better outcome than trip planner,

Wapping said:

No it's not.

Garmin devices used to be just that, GPS devices; even then they had to be learnt. Look at Whatton's 'Guide for dummies' thread, posted years ago.... things did have to be learnt and they still do.

Today's Garmin devices have steadily morphed into home entertainment systems, with a GPS device bolted onto the side. This is what bikermates have demanded, as no ride is complete without, music, telephones, films and knowing how often they have changed gear.

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Good point. Quite why they assume that everyone wants this garbage on a Nav device, when we are being told that these distractions are dangerous, and will result in death and carnage, is beyond me.

Wapping said:

Similarly, the devices are now bought and used by people who are wholly reliant on a device to tell them how to ride from A to B, as they cannot imagine plotting out a route for themselves and / or cannot read a map, most often as they cannot be arsed to do it. Their motorbike now does everything for them, with boring reliability. They get surprised when their mobile entertainment system doesn't.

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But not everyone wants to sit plotting routes for hours on end before a trip. I certainly don't. I'm sure that sitting and planning a route is great, if that's what your in to. If the weather plays ball, or there are no road closures on the route you're planning, then all is well, but some people like to take each day as it comes. For me, I like to look at local maps & places of interest without planning a route, deciding where looks good on the day, and choosing a hotel at the last minute. Planning a regimented trip at home, with exact daily mileages, hotels, piss stops is ok some of the time, but sometimes it's all about having an adventure. You know, like the good old days.

The Nav has an "avoid motorways" feature. It also has a "curvy roads" feature. Why don't these work? You, and others keep avoiding this question.

If these features did what they are meant to do, people would be a lot happier.

roamer said:

I am no expert but have got the best for me out of the garmin,
Especially building routes quickly when on tour for the next day,
When creating your own routes using basecamp,
avoid curvy roads, it takes ages to calculate and the waypoints make a disjointed route, i stick with fastest route ,
With manual routing you are going where you want anyway,
The device trip planner app is very effective and easy to use in conjunction with fastest route and does some great rural roads, uk and europe,
I do most of my routes on the device as basecamp does have so many options its a bit complicated for me to get a better outcome than trip planner,

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Agreed, and I do the same. But the issue that I've had, is that the device thinks that curvy roads includes town centres, city centres, and straight roads. And avoid motorways does the exact opposite.

There's nothing to "learn" on the Nav, it's just a sat nav, FFS

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Then please tell me why there is a forum full of questions and comments from hundreds of people on how to do things with satnavs and the software, no wait a minute is it maybe because you have to learn to use these devices and there software, if only we were all born with your inate ability (because by your own admission you certainly did not learn it) to just know how these things work, if only we were all blessed with that ability things would be so much easier.
I certainly struggle with many modern technological marvels, and have to resort to learn how to use them, i would imagine you are the type that can pick up a tv remote and just know how it works and where all the buttons are. if only I was blessed with that gift.
And with reference to sounding like wapping, its not beyond the realms of posssibility that more than one person can have the similar opinions.

I certainly was not defending the product just stating fact, that there are people who have no issues with basecamp once they have learned to use it and also no issues with there nav once they have learned to use it. pretty much the same as people have problems with both and then get rid of the offending items. as i said.
Look back at some of my posts and i think you will find that the only thing i advocate is that people learn to use what they have chosen to use.

You say, Quote (The Nav has an "avoid motorways" feature. It also has a "curvy roads" feature. Why don't these work? You, and others keep avoiding this question.
If these features did what they are meant to do, people would be a lot happier) What have you done to get answers to these questions and what have you learned, oh sorry you must already know because you have nothing to learn about it.

But not everyone wants to sit plotting routes for hours on end before a trip.

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They want someone else to do it for them. Better still a device that they can turn on whilst sitting on the bog, to tell them. But only once they have looked out of the window to see if it's raining, or better still asked if it's going to be raining on the 17th of September 2019 as that is when they and their five mates plan on being in they think the Alps.

leedude03 said:

Then please tell me why there is a forum full of questions and comments from hundreds of people on how to do things with satnavs and the software, no wait a minute is it maybe because you have to learn to use these devices and there software, if only we were all born with your inate ability (because by your own admission you certainly did not learn it) to just know how these things work, if only we were all blessed with that ability things would be so much easier.
I certainly struggle with many modern technological marvels, and have to resort to learn how to use them, i would imagine you are the type that can pick up a tv remote and just know how it works and where all the buttons are. if only I was blessed with that gift.
And with reference to sounding like wapping, its not beyond the realms of posssibility that more than one person can have the similar opinions.

I certainly was not defending the product just stating fact, that there are people who have no issues with basecamp once they have learned to use it and also no issues with there nav once they have learned to use it. pretty much the same as people have problems with both and then get rid of the offending items. as i said.
Look back at some of my posts and i think you will find that the only thing i advocate is that people learn to use what they have chosen to use.

You say, Quote (The Nav has an "avoid motorways" feature. It also has a "curvy roads" feature. Why don't these work? You, and others keep avoiding this question.
If these features did what they are meant to do, people would be a lot happier) What have you done to get answers to these questions and what have you learned, oh sorry you must already know because you have nothing to learn about it.

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Crikey, calm down, no need to be so defensive.

My point about nothing to "learn", is about the avoidances. You either turn them on, or turn them off. You cannot "learn" how to delve deeper into the avoidances, as they are there, or they are not.

I haven't done anything to get answers, other than ask on here, as whenever I, or anyone else, has mentioned that the avoidances don't work, people just come along and say that we need to "learn" how to use the device, rather than just answer the question.

Please define how we are meant to "learn" how to use the avoid motorways/ use curvy roads/ fastest route.

I have no need to calm down i am always calm, Unlike yourself who uses the FFS coment. but to answer your question on (define how we are meant to "learn" how to use the avoid motorways/ use curvy roads/ fastest route.) i would first find out what is meant by each preference and then how garmin have intended it to work or more to the point how its implemented on this particular unit because they maybe working in tandem or not with another function, if i could not find the answer in the manual or via a google search or by trial and error i would then be asking Garmin tech to explain how they have implemented the functions you listed, if they could not give me a satisfactory answer, i like you would be looking at getting another unit or if i was pleased with the rest of the units functions would keep it, i would also be aware that Garmin may tell me that there will be future updates for the unit that will change and alter the way the unit works at the moment and that this may impact on my decision to keep or get rid of the unit, in any situatuion the choice would be mine to make.

On a side note if Garmin failed to give me satisfactory answers i would certainly be complaining about that to someone higher up the food chain.

EDIT There would also be one more thing to consider that i had not given any thought to, and this maybe a complete red herring,(i do not know) but have BMW had anything to do with the implementation of the functions of the unit or the software contained therein, if so it may not be a Garmin problem.

ymfb said:

As I use a Mac book air this is useful information, thanks. With the latest Mac book pros being so much lighter I was thinking of going that way later this year.

But maybe I will put the whole thing off until Garmin have sorted the Nav xi issues.

Personally in your shoes I'd persevere having invested so much time and frustration, good luck with whatever you do.

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Tread carefully with Garmin and Macbook Pro - I'm not convinced that USB3 works with Garmin. Someone more knowledgable than me can no doubt shed light on this.

Wapping said:

Garmin devices used to be just that, GPS devices; even then they had to be learnt. Look at Whatton's 'Guide for dummies' thread, posted years ago.... things did have to be learnt and they still do.

Today's Garmin devices have steadily morphed into home entertainment systems, with a GPS device bolted onto the side. This is what bikermates have demanded, as no ride is complete without, music, telephones, films, knowing (being told, in other words) how often they have changed gear and not least the owner being told where - down which roads - to ride their bike, rather than decide for themselves. Similarly, the devices are now bought and used by people who are wholly reliant on a device to tell them how to ride from A to B, as they cannot imagine plotting out a route for themselves and / or cannot read a map, most often as they cannot be arsed to do it. Their motorbike now does everything for them, with boring reliability. They get surprised - frustratingly angry to the point of piss boiling - when their mobile entertainment system doesn't.

Maybe Garmin should drop the 'wiggly roads' option entirely? .......

Maybe Garmin should strip every bloody function out of their devices and demand that everyone from now on create their own routes from scratch; after all that is what the devices used to be like and they sold tens of thousands, to lots of very happy owners.

PS You never did discover how to create a route for yourself and import it into your Nav V, did you. The Nav VI works exactly the same way. Had you learnt how to do it on your Nav V, you would be at least one step further on today.

PPS You are not obliged to buy the latest branded BMW device, at its (sometimes) premium price. Thousands of bikermates are very happy with their sometimes older generic Garmin (unbranded) devices which are at least cheaper. They use them on their BMW motorcycles. Give it a go. Failing that, buy a TomTom or get a map.

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Whilst I commend you for your expertise and support with these devices, it would be helpful to a lot of riders who simply don't have the technical skills to operate them or ability to easily acquire them if they were much simpler to operate. Idiot proof would be good. Not everyone who rides a bike is going to be a whizz on a computer. It doesn't mean they are a failure in life. Or lazy. I count myself in that bracket and have opted for smartphone with TomTom app instead of dedicated unit. The Garmin 550 I had often switched itself off or locked up which was frustrating having shelled out for it and, like the O.P. never got my head around route planning and importing them.

I can live without some of the peripherals, iPod or headset provides the entertainment.

phooey said:

Whilst I commend you for your expertise and support with these devices, it would be helpful to a lot of riders who simply don't have the technical skill to operate them or ability to easily acquire them if they were much simpler to operate. Idiot proof would be good. Not everyone who rides a bike is going to be a whizz on a computer. It doesn't mean they are a failure in life. Or lazy. I count myself in that bracket and have opted for smartphone with TomTom app instead of dedicated unit. The Garmin 550 I had often switched itself off or locked up which was frustrating having shelled out for it and, like the O.P. never got my head around route planning and importing them.

I can live without some of the peripherals, iPod or headset provides the entertainment.

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All the above is very true, and a bog basic satnav would be a godsend to some people as you say, who dont have the time or the ability or maybe even can not be bothered to sitdown and try to learn it, and i agree there should be such a device. but on the other side of the coin you have the people who want something all singing and all dancing thats the next new piece of hardware must have to adorn there motorcycles with. the problem is that the people who manufacture these items are driven by consumers who want the next latest all singing all dancing toy, (even if some will not use half the features it has) just so they can say they have it.
There are also people who need and will be able to take full advantage of all the new units features and use it to the full.

Quick question about Nav 6 please.
Is anyone else finding that the twisty roller thingy on your clutch lever won't talk to the new Nav?
As you may have guessed - I'm a technophobe....

So, many people are advocating the learning approach. I'd love to find, in one place, a source of clear instructions for the Nav 6 that I can learn about:

1 All the quirks and seemingly inbuilt tripwires that ruin the User Experience in both the Nav6 and Basecamp, and the two together.
2:How to avoid or overcome everything in 1.

I can't see much joy in taking a 'learning by failing', spending hours trawling the web, asking questions on a forum approach. I'd rather be out riding.
Honestly, I reckon it's taken twenty hours or more of my time to fix the basecamp / macbookair / Nav 6 maps issue. And wasted at least 10 hours of riding the wrong way when on tour. There's a danger aspect too. Sending a fully laden, two up RT over a mountain dirt road was not great, nor 'fastest route'. I don't think that was down to user learning. Other than I learnt not to trust the Nav6.

I am no IT whiz, I can assure you.

I just plug the device into my Mac and it works.

I then just push buttons on my navigational device. More often than not it performs exactly as I think it should. If it doesn't, as was the case when I played around with the 'Auto skipping of waypoints' function which was new to me. I was surprised how it treated the unintentional non-arrival at a waypoint, due to roadworks that forced a significant deviation of my pre-planned route. Normally I would ride along the deviation and get back onto my pre-planned route and arrive at the waypoint. In short, I discovered that 'Auto-skip' overrides an instruction not to recalculate a pre-planned route. The device will decide for itself that the rider, as he hasn't arrived at the waypoint (because the rider is off route due to nothing more than a road closure and a forced deviation of many miles, delaying arrival at the point, that the rider still has every intention of still visiting) must skip it out. I now understand this. I can understand that bikers wanted it work it this way, as we read lots of moans about devices forcing riders back to waypoints they chose to miss out. They are very happy that their device will 'Auto skip', the affect it has will not bother them one jot.