adventure misfire ?

probably treading over old ground here.
Any advise on hunting/ misfire on my adventure it seems to be getting worse or is it just the cold weather this bike does'nt like.
i've heard of replacing the main chip but this seems like quite a costly job.Is there anything the main dealers can do if you talk to them nicely .
regards and safe riding
JonB

Jon,

is this surging? Normal (hah!) symptoms are inability to drive steadily at 30mph in 3rd or 40 in 4th, it feels like you are always accelerating or decelerating - you can't keep a steady speed. Aything like that?

MikeO

See my thread - 'new adventure - update on misfiring' it was finally diagnosed as too much air in the fuel/air mix, causing it to stutter and temporarily stall at wide throttle openings, typically at 5-6k in 6 gear.

Be very interested to hear if it sounds like the same problem, SPC sorted mine out at the second attempt.

Hope this helps.

Richard

surging

yes it does !! almost like the bike has a mind of its own, but i dont experience any problems at higher revs looks like another BMW character to put up with ?
Jon B

I mentioned the surging to a fuel injection specialist mate of mine and asked him to sort it out, his answer was "you are joking".
He said the bloody bike is new why are you trying to sort out the problem, take it back to the dealer and get them to fix it or replace it.
He has a point, does anyone know why everyone is trying to fix their own defects ?

Big Den said:

I mentioned the surging to a fuel injection specialist mate of mine and asked him to sort it out, his answer was "you are joking".
He said the bloody bike is new why are you trying to sort out the problem, take it back to the dealer and get them to fix it or replace it.
He has a point, does anyone know why everyone is trying to fix their own defects ?

Click to expand...

Because BMW can't? A Techlusion chip can (ie something which allows you access to fuel management)


MikeO

Balance.

If it is surging get the throttle bodies balanced it has to be accurate, also check valve clearance and throttle cables. I just had the most horrendous miss-fire and it was a kinked/broken throttle cable keeping the right- hand throttle open. pull back the throttle and check that each side returns to the end stops. Even better, if its new take it to the dealer and ask them to balance it and check everything..


Iain.

tried it tested it been there

i would'nt even think of trying to sought this type of thing out myself (DOH!!) the dealer has indirectly suggested that the chip be changed but it seems to be at my expense . i would have assumed that this would be covered by warranty? why in my view fit a chip that does not allow the engine to function properly
JON B

This is a complicated subject that has been covered in various areas before (a search for 'surging' should give you a lot of reading material!). The bike surges because the fuel mixture, which is set at production, is leaned down to allow the best performance in emission tests. BMW as a company, even if they were to acknowledge the problem (which they won't, as a corporate statement) would not be able to fit a new chip without resubmitting to the full (& very expensive) set of emission tests again, with the certainty of a worse result. They would also be opening the doors to everyone who has ever had surging problems (over 40% of respondents in this BB alone) to demand that the work be done to their bikes. BMW have, it seems, decided that twinsparking the boxer is the way forward. They've quoted better emission control as the reason for doing this, but if you read the attached statement from them (next post), it makes veiled reference to improving combustion.
Fitting a Techlusion chip (others may work, I don't know, but my dealer has had a great deal of success with this one) allows you to re-map (or re-program) the fuel injection so that you can alter the mixture at different engine speeds. Without this, you can only alter the idle mixture. Surging is also caused/exacerbated by any or all of the following:

Throttle body synchronisation
Throttle Position Sensor
Throttle Cable settings/balance
Cold start cable settings

Please note that all of the above is what I have gleaned from this site, the ADVrider site, BMW themselves & my own experience. The common point is me, so if it's bollox, I apologise.

The Techlusion chip is £200ish fitted (at my dealer, anyway). I've decided that, after trying for 20k miles & 10 months to solve the problem by every other method, I'm going to bite the bullet & do it. It is a pragmatic solution which alows me to ride my bike (when I get back to doing that ) without the one snag which was spoiling my enjoyment of it. Morally, BMW should fix it (of course they should also fix the bloody awful headlight). Give it a try, maybe your dealer will be able to - let's face it, some bikes never suffer from it, and others can be fixed. Some (mine included) however, are knackered without taking some other action...

MikeO

Official BMW release on 27 November 2002

To further improve exhaust emission quality and comply with the forthcoming EU 2 regulations, BMW Motorrad is introducing dual ignition on its 2003 range of boxer-engine machines.

Models affected will be the R1100 S, R1150 GS, R1150 R, R1150 RS and R1150 RT. The changeover in production has already begun and will be incorporated on a model-by-model basis. Implementation will be complete by the beginning of 2003.

The emissions improvement measure is designed to prepare engines for new exhaust emissions legislation set out in EU 2 and (in future) EU 3. The lead that BMW Motorrad enjoys in the area of emissions control will be increased further when the new conversion is complete.

The effect of a dual ignition system is to improve the uniformity of combustion throughout the engine's operating range - even in unfavourable conditions. Dual ignition represents a solution to the fundamental conflict between the need for the lowest possible emission of pollutants and smooth running - particularly evident in large capacity engines. As a bonus, the efficiency of the boxer engines has been further increased, with a slight reduction in fuel consumption. Engine power output peak values and torque remain the same for all models.

The dual ignition system for combustion engines has existed for many years and BMW has a long tradition of applying such systems to aircraft engines. The technical principle is simple - instead of a solitary spark plug in the combustion chamber to ignite the mixture, two are now employed and the plugs spark in parallel. The system requires an additional bore in the cylinder head for the second spark plug as well as a more powerful ignition system capable of providing the extra energy needed to create a second ignition spark.

All engines that are fitted with dual ignition will have a redesigned cover for the plug shaft, with "2-spark" lettering on it.

Thought you might find this interesting, from Techlusion's Web Page

Surging

BMW’s Motronic Fuel Injection has an oxygen sensor in a closed loop mode to maintain the fuel curve during idle and cruise. In theory this means that whatever fuel ratio is programmed to be delivered during idle and cruise will be constantly maintained during operation. In the case of the BMW Oilheads the theory does not translate fully to reality. At idle this system works as planed. At heavier cruise loads it also works as planned. It is at very light load cruise that the system fails to live up to its design potential. It seems that the ECU sensor system has a problem telling the difference between driving at 3000-4000 rpm or running at 3000-4000 rpm in neutral. This lack of acuity shows up as the common BMW surging problem.

Remedy

As part of the ECU design there are times during normal operation that the O2 sensor provides data that is outside of the parameters that the programming is looking for, in such cases the O2 sensor data is not used to make adjustments to the fuel map. We can use this feature to stabilize the fuel curve during idle and cruise by disconnecting the O2 sensor. The ECU now perceives sensor data out of its parameters and does not use O2 sensor data to modify the base fuel map. Running on just base fuel map doesn't actually fix the surging problem either but it will provided a consistent fuel map that the TFi box can use as the foundation for further adjustments to the fuel curve that will allow you to get rid of the surging problem.

Note: We have found that there are two common surge complaints. Surging around 2000 rpm and surging between 3000-4000 rpm. The 2000 rpm surging is usually mechanical dealing with carb sync and throttle body issues. The 3000-4000 rpm surging is fuel surge cause by lean fuel delivery, this is the problem that the TFi box can help with.

For all you lot with a bb power chip or a techlusion box, which is the way to go between the two and what can one do that the other cant?