Speed Camera Puzzle

David Thorpe · Mar 26, 2003

Hi
over the last week I've been in NW Scotland working near Lochinver.
Had a wonderful 2 stage ride up there via a tortuous route and an exhilarating 12 hour blast back yesterday.

One thing puzzles me, anyone know why rear number photo speed cameras facing say north as on A68 in the Borders flash oncomming m/cylists travelling at say 80 but going south. They can't be recording your number (I'll have at least 7 tickets if they are) so is it just something thata happens? I'd love to know why.

David T :confused:

Geriatric Germ · Mar 26, 2003

They are operated by a WPC Kinky for Bikers :shoot:

Dutchman · Mar 26, 2003

David Thorpe said:
Hi
over the last week I've been in NW Scotland working near Lochinver.
Had a wonderful 2 stage ride up there via a tortuous route and an exhilarating 12 hour blast back yesterday.

One thing puzzles me, anyone know why rear number photo speed cameras facing say north as on A68 in the Borders flash oncomming m/cylists travelling at say 80 but going south. They can't be recording your number (I'll have at least 7 tickets if they are) so is it just something thata happens? I'd love to know why.

David T

Don't be confused David.....

The extra special cameras we have in Scotland have such good resolution, that they will be able to read your tax disc, even if it's in your pocket..........

MikeO · Mar 26, 2003

David Thorpe said:
Hi
over the last week I've been in NW Scotland working near Lochinver.
Had a wonderful 2 stage ride up there via a tortuous route and an exhilarating 12 hour blast back yesterday.

One thing puzzles me, anyone know why rear number photo speed cameras facing say north as on A68 in the Borders flash oncomming m/cylists travelling at say 80 but going south. They can't be recording your number (I'll have at least 7 tickets if they are) so is it just something thata happens? I'd love to know why.

David T

Perhaps the cameras don't know you're a motorcycle.....

Kenny Rodkiss · Mar 26, 2003

trouble now

The ones you speak off are the retinal scan cameras and can i.d. a person from 30 meters with a 25ns burst of blue laser light which is carried in the flash that usually catches speeders going in the other direction.
If you see one close your eyes till your passed it.

David Thorpe · Mar 26, 2003

retinal scanning

I usually ride with my eyes closed so you reckon I'll be Ok?
Does a tinted visor make any difference!!

Seriously tho >

I'm still curious as to why a vehicle going against the camera (so to speak) triggers a flash.

David T

Swooper · Mar 26, 2003

Flash Flash

I know exactly the camera you are talking about!

It has got Sherpa and I twice 6 months apart

Make car drives break hard so be careful

You would think they would fix it?

londonw1 · Mar 26, 2003

Serious answer

The reason some of the camera do this now is the police found out on a wide road people were switching sides of the road to 'miss' the cameras............ who would do such a thing........

So what they have done in places where this is easy to do is widened the picture and detection area to catch these people, the radar system that works out the speed on some of the cheaper cameras (about £20K each!!!!) do not understand the difference in direction just the speed of the object.

Hope this helps and stops anyone who may use the other side of the road trick still......

The things you find out having a traffic cop as a mate, oh and he says he loves his Pan Handle...... but also is very very unlikely to pull a GS as they are ridden by sensible people and that you'd have to do something really stupid right in front of him to worry. As he says, anyone on a sports bike WILL break the law everytime they are out so are much easier targets!

David Thorpe · Mar 26, 2003

Hi Londonw1

I understand the beam widening bit but

That means the cameras are not direction sensitive, I assumed a rear number plate reader only was activated by a receeding car. From what your mate says they react to oncoming traffic as well.

Thanks

londonw1 · Mar 26, 2003

Just the cheap ones

The newer or more expensive ones (same box but different internals) do understand the direction of the object.

MikeO · Mar 26, 2003

Gatsos are set to flash twice when they are recording your speed. This is against a receding target (normally - there is no reason why they shouldn't work on an approaching target).

When a device programmed to record a receding target detects an approaching target exceeding it's programmed speed, it will flash once to warn the driver/rider (the device just identifies a moving metal mass, it doesn't know if it's a bike or a car) that he/she is exceeding the limit. No action is taken (on a standard Gatso you need two photos for a conviction), it is merely a warning for the motorist.

MikeO

Jon · Mar 27, 2003

Very interesting article in this months "Ride" regarding Gatsos, which followed on from some discussions at work.

The gists of the article was; Basically, if you get "flashed" and receive the form, you fill it in, and send it back, but you don't sign it - this a recommendation from a transport law specialist.

The Road Traffic Act 1988 only makes it an offence to not name the driver on the official form, there's no legal requirement to sign it.

Apparently, because the form isn't signed it isn't admissable as evidence and so the court can't legally identify the rider.

The discussion at work centered on saying you don't know who was driving and the right not to incriminate yourself. Apparently it was held up in European Courts (something good about European system then?).

Now, anybody at work gets flashed and an envelope they all do that.

It's a loophole, but for how long?

Obviously this is not a recommendation to speed

AdamZ · Mar 27, 2003

Jon said:
Very interesting article in this months "Ride" regarding Gatsos, which followed on from some discussions at work.

The gists of the article was; Basically, if you get "flashed" and receive the form, you fill it in, and send it back, but you don't sign it - this a recommendation from a transport law specialist.

It's a loophole, but for how long?

and I for one have no intention of acting as the test case...

I much prefer the Radar detector way and am awaiting the result of the laser jammer test case...

Under that a guy has been charged with "peverting the course of justice"

Good site try - http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/

...and of course http://www.tuftufclub.com/ for fun!

Jon · Mar 27, 2003

Adam,

It's already happened - hence the article in RIDE - he was found not guilty.

Like I said tho - not a recommendation to speed.

rayh · Mar 27, 2003

Jon said:
Adam,

It's already happened - hence the article in RIDE - he was found not guilty.

Like I said tho - not a recommendation to speed.

Was this found not guilty because the radar detector is used to give the driver advanced warning that they are approaching an accident blackspot. As the Gatso's of the world are designed to slow traffic in these areas. not as a speed trap. Therefore the radars are not speed trap detecors but accident prevention devices.

I heard about this on Talk sport motor show on the radio

Great Bear · Mar 31, 2003

Speeding Form Signing !

Surely if you don't sign the form as the rider/driver then the legal question is Who was?
1.Was it stolen and you failed to report it. Your insurance company and finance company (if applicable) have a legal interest in the vehicle and would therefore pursue this.
2. If you say it was a mate. Is he on your insurance. If not or you fail or refuse to give his name. Then you can be done for aid and abet no insurance.
Don't believe everything you read in the parers or hear off a mate down the pub. At the end of the day the b*ggers have got you both way. Remember ride safe, ride free.

Cheers..Great Bear

Davey B · Apr 1, 2003

My understanding is this
A registered vehicle is seen committing an offence, for arguments sake, fails to stop for the Police.
PNC check gives the Police the vehicles registered keeper. Police visit with a form signed by a boss that REQUIRES the registered keeper to furnsih the Police with driver details at time of offence. If he/she doesn't then they commit an offence and they go to court. Appeal on grounds of self incrimination/right to silence, subsequently the appeal is dismissed as it would be a ludicrous situation and no scrote would ever stop for the Police and would simply exercise right to silence.
I've used this legislation several times at work on villains who drive and haven't stopped cos they've had knock off gear in the car, i get them one way or the other.
(I also have 3 points for doing 36 in a 30 so know both sides to the coin) Speed and get caught=pay the consequences.
You takes yer chance....

Rev Chuck · Apr 2, 2003

Cannot help in your discussion about cameras and there forward/backwards snapping potential.
But can I suggest not using the A68. The A7, which can be joined from the same roundabout on the Edinburgh city bypass still has no cameras on it and is just as good a road, with as good scenery. Sure you may pass through the village of Stow, and the small towns of Jedburgh and Selkirk but IMHO its still better than the A68 - I just refuse to use the A68 primarily because the cameras are there, and because the A7 is just as good. There are other points but I will not go into them here.
Try the following, just as a suggestion:
Down the A7 from Edinburgh to Hawick, to the roundabout at Safeways (on left hand side). No cameras.
Turn left at said roundabout, and take the A698 out of Hawick towards Denholm. No cameras.
400 yards out of Hawick, turn right and take the A6088 through Bonchester Bridge (No cameras.) and join the A68 just at the Carter Bar (border post). I do not think that there are to many cameras down the English side, but cannot be sure.
Charles

Panzer Patrol · May 16, 2003

And the road from Hawick - Bonchester Bridge - Carter Bar is a stonker, but watch out for exploding sheep.

timmy · May 16, 2003

Hi all and in particular Dave Boulder the civil servant ish!
I may have missed a post here and late as always!

Can we be prosecuted from a Gatso as we are driving towards it on the other side of the road?
There are so many theories, ideas and rumours and splitting these up from the plain facts is what is difficult!

I totally agree with the tenet - you speed get caught pay the price.

Mind you the proliferation of Gatsos these days is a piss take. Don't they do things differently in Italy - with use of Gatsos?

Timmy

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