GPS antenna... any improvement?

Guys,
Quest 2 seems quite prone to losing signal, tall buildings, under trees etc. (Probably ALL models suffer this in varying degrees?)
Any advantages by installing an antenna to pick up a bit more signal... and if so where have you mounted yours?
Cheers
Charlie

Charlie:

Unlike television or radio reception, fitting an external antenna will not make much of a difference to GPS reception, unless the external antenna has a better view of the sky than the existing antenna does.

Perhaps try this experiment: Take your GPSR, with its existing integral antenna, and go stand in the middle of a field where you have - without question - an unobstructed view of the satellite constellation. Power up the GPSR, then position the antenna as directed in the owner manual so that it has the best view of the satellite constellation. (I say 'as directed in the owner manual', because some of the antennas need to be vertical, some horizontal - so, look in the first few pages of the owner manual to see how the antenna should be positioned for best reception).

Once the GPSR picks up on the satellite constellation, go to the page that shows GPS satellite reception status. This page will have a bunch of vertical bars in it, indicating reception quality from the different satellites. If the majority of the bars you see are more than 2/3 of the way up the screen, the your GPSR is getting quite satisfactory reception, and fitting an external antenna won't make much of a difference, provided you remain standing in the middle of that field.

Now, go put the GPSR back onto the moto, turn it on, position the antenna so that it has the best view of the satellite constellation, sit on the moto as you normally do when you ride it, and again observe the page that shows satellite reception status. If the quality of satellite reception has degraded significantly, then chances are that something in blocking the GPSRs view of the satellite constellation. If you can fit an external antenna in a better location - meaning, somewhere with a fairly unobstructed view of the horizon - you might see an improvement in performance. But, if the satellite signal strength page looks pretty much the same as it did when you were standing in the field, then fitting an external antenna won't make any difference.

FYI, the number one cause of satellite reception problems with GPSRs on motos is that the rider does not position the antenna in the manner that is prescribed in the first few pages of the owner manual. In the case of a StreetPilot III or 2x6 GPSR, the 'post' type antenna should be sticking straight up, like a telegraph pole. In the case of a 26xx, 27xx or 28xx GPSR, the GPSR should be no more than 15 degrees off vertical or horizontal level, because the antenna is in the top middle of the case, towards the front of the device. I don't know what the specs are for a Quest antenna, which is why I suggest you check the owner manual carefully for specific instructions.

Michael

A lot of the problems of loosing lock in buildings and trees are related to multipath, rather then weak signal... So in that case a more sensitive antenna would make a marginal difference... That said, the latest SIRF III chipset seems to be better at sorting it all out (and being more sensitive)... But this is a hardware and software change downstream from the antenna...

I do find my 2820 (which I don't think is SIRF III) does an amazing job compared to my 60C... I think it may have a lot to do with more inteligent software, coupled with "lock on road" (which is likely still enabled on the new GPS, but which I never had enabled in the past)... I navigated a complicated route through the center of old town Amsterdam a couple days ago, and about half way It dawned on me that I was making turns in the tall buildings, that I was used to passing because the GPS was looking for satalites.....

Al...

I think that the GPS engine in the 28xx series is more advanced than the GPS engine in the 27xx and 26xx series. How, I don't know (that stuff for the electrical engineers to worry about, not for the beta testers). But, I do believe it is a different engine.

Michael

Charlie: Why don’t you give an external antenna a try, cost is minimal, this on eBay by Holux looks fine at £10 deliverd.

Make sure you buy an ‘active’ antenna with an mcx type connector for the Quest, active means it’s amplified and amplifying the signal to the GPS may help you maintain a lock under trees and in the urban jungle. Being on a wire means you can put the antenna where it gets a clear view of the sky.

By the way I have two, one on the car and one on the study velux window, just in case the house moves

Michael,
I was hoping that you would have a few thoughts as the resident GPS guru!!!
Good idea to test in open space then compare signal with the unit fitted on bike and reposition if needed. It seems obvious now you mention it.
FYI my manual advises that the fold out antenna on Quest should be horizontal (parallel to the road) for best reception so I've set up my unit accordingly. No mention of vertical or other optimum angle for the unit itself tho.

Al,
Interesting comments, could be that the Quest is simply not as good (older multipath system) at retaining a signal as a more recent and/or expensive model, 2820 etc
Despite researching various models/costs/pros/cons before buying, some things are only apparent after some weeks of actual usage. I think this is one of those instances.

Ebbo,
Good suggestion, I think I'll get one at £10 it seems silly not to, and might even help!
BTW Have enjoyed your RT stuff on ebbo.org...

Thankyou all
Charlie

charlie b said:

...No mention of vertical or other optimum angle for the unit itself tho.

Click to expand...

Charlie:

I think the generally accepted specification is to try and keep the antenna within 15° horizontally and vertically of whatever orientation it is intended to be operated in.

I mostly use the 2xxx series GPSRs on my motorcycle, and because of the way I have it set up for easy viewing of the screen, it's tilted back about 25° from vertical. So, I have a small external antenna mounted on the top of the front brake master cylinder, and I plug that into the GPSR. I have noticed, though, that different antenna designs are either more or less sensitive to being tilted off the desired X or Y axis. If I am using an x96 GPSR (for example, 296, 396) with the post-type antenna, I generally don't have to bother to plug in the external one, even though the post antenna is off-vertical in the fore and aft axis. Likewise, I never used an external antenna with the StreetPilot III, which also had a post-type antenna.

I think that the Quests use the same 'postage stamp' type of antenna as the 2xxx series (this is a guess) - perhaps try to get it as flat as possible in the fore and aft axis, and see if that makes any improvement. On a moto, the biggest obstruction to the antenna's view of the satellite constellation is usually the rider, which is not much of a problem because the rider normally only blocks about a 30° radius of azimuth view - not enough to create a problem. If your GPSR is mounted on the longitudinal center line of your motorcycle, then it usually will be far enough away from the mirrors, etc. than they won't present any problem either.

Just a shot in the dark here: The Quest series have batteries in them, don't they? Are you running the GPSR with battery power, or with external (12 volt) power that you are supplying from the moto? I know that quite a few of the battery powered units have a 'battery saver' mode, and when the GPSR is operating in battery saver mode, it doesn't scan the sky for the satellites as often as it does when it is operating in 'full power' mode. That might be the cause of your problems - being in the 'battery saver' mode.

Usually the owner manual will make reference to how to configure the GPSR to put it into 'battery saver' mode - perhaps have a peek at your GPSR configuration setup, and make sure it is running at full effort. The battery saver mode is fine for pedestrians - when the GPSR location doesn't change very quickly - but not really the greatest for motor vehicles.

Michael

I never had any problems with satellite lock on my Quest 1 but the Quest 2 I 'upgraded' to, and the replacement Quest 2, were very bad. The first Quest 2 only had to see a tree before losing lock and the second was only marginally better. The first one had its aerial replaced, but coupled together with the very slow redraw rates meant that I came to an arrangement with Garmin which means I'm now a 2610 owner.

Twotter said:

I never had any problems with satellite lock on my Quest 1 but the Quest 2 I 'upgraded' to, and the replacement Quest 2, were very bad. The first Quest 2 only had to see a tree before losing lock and the second was only marginally better. The first one had its aerial replaced, but coupled together with the very slow redraw rates meant that I came to an arrangement with Garmin which means I'm now a 2610 owner.

Click to expand...

Hi Twotter,
Oh dear, you have just described my Quest 2.
Whether it is on the bike or in the car immediately I go under a few trees the signal is lost and the screen goes blank or 'sticks' before a very slow redraw as it limps back to speed. I expect this in a tunnel or under a substantial tree canopy but (as you note) a few trees seem to upset it. My map detail and routing settings are on medium/fast redraw but I find myself having to pull over, away from trees/buildings for a minute or two waiting for the unit to sort itself out.
Also if I am approaching a junction on an A road, travelling at the national limit, the audio prompt and auto zoom can be very late, ie right at the junction and not beforehand. This has been downright dangerous once or twice, Jeeze, I can go back to a map/notes in my tankbag if I want to ride like that again!!
This is my first GPS so I have no other unit to compare the Quest 2 against.
From your comments it seems that Quest 2 is not very satisfactory (compared even to Quest 1) and now I find myself reflecting that maybe I should contact Garmin about this poor performance with a view to getting something that works more efficiently.
Do you have any useful contact details for me to pursue this please?
Thanks
Charlie

The Quest 2 does have a reputation for being a little ‘slow’ but it shouldn’t be behaving like that, I should call Garmin, they are a very good company to deal with.

Garmin Europe Ltd
Unit 5,
The Quadrangle,
Abbey Park,
Romsey,
Hampshire
SO51 9DF

Tel: 0870 8501241

Geographic number is cheaper (especially when on hold) 01794 519944

Hello Charlie,

I think there must be quite a few people having the same problem as I really believe that the Quest 2 inner gizmothingywotyercallit isn't up to the job with the extra features over the Quest 1. Now it may be that there is a bad batch but I don't know.

The shop it was bought from wouldn't take it back and refund our money as it was working as advertised so we had to go to Garmin. Be prepared for a long wait on hold, my missus has spent up to an hour waiting to talk to someone at Garmin (if I were the jealous type I'd think something was going on ).

The bottom line is that we were offered a replacement GPS. Since they use full RRP we were offered a 2610, instead of a 2720, no matter that new 2610's are now available for £320. To be honest I'm not too fussed as long as it works as well as my old Quest 1!

Good luck

In me experience, not all Garmin GPS's are equal, reception wise...

I remember when the first Etrex's came out, when they made the Summit, they created a GPS with pitiful reception compared to what it was based on... Electrical interference close to the antenna board was the theory...

My Vista was also worse than expected... One of the major reasons I went with a 60C... (a great reciever btw)

So it is absolutely possible that in the case of the Quest II, the internal antenna just doesn't work so great... In this case, an external antenna should make a big difference...

Al...

araspitfire said:

So it is absolutely possible that in the case of the Quest II, the internal antenna just doesn't work so great... In this case, an external antenna should make a big difference...

Click to expand...

It is quite possible that Al may be correct here, and may have identified the solution to your reception problem. Keep in mind that I have no experience whatsoever with the Quest series - I have not even seen one up close.

Michael

I have ordered an external antenna, (thanks Ebbo for the link ) This will maybe improve the sat' locking , and then again, maybe not, I will try it out and see.
What that will not change though is the slow plotting and redraw times. To have the route displaying and 'current' on my screen I still have to pull over often to allow the unit to catch up.
Hmmmmm........ not quite what I had anticipated from a GPS.
I will be contacting Garmin about this. Their customer care has a good reputation, albeit it a bit slow, so I'll post their response here.
Thanks Michael and Al for your comments,
Regards
Charlie

charlie b said:

What that will not change though is the slow plotting and redraw times. To have the route displaying and 'current' on my screen I still have to pull over often to allow the unit to catch up.
Hmmmmm........ not quite what I had anticipated from a GPS.

Click to expand...

What are your map display settings? If you run with maximum detail, and drive with the unit zoomed in to less than 500 meters... you can expect redraw delays... On the other hand, if you are in an area where satalite lock is intermittant, then the GPS is spending CPU cycles that it would use to redraw the map, trying to lock down the position again... and it would be normal to have it get behind...

I've not touched either Quest myself, and I understand that they are meant to be 'low cost' versions of the Streetpilots, but I would have figured that they would have saved the cost in smaller screen, and other features, rather than blessing it with an underpowered processor...??? But it's possible I suppose... Interested in hearing what Garmin have to say, and if the external helps...

Al...

I used to run my Quest 1 & 2 with normal detail & the display at 0.2 miles (to see the speed cameras coming). The first Quest 2 was quite convincing when it comes to the lack of satellite coverage in the Southampton area - a tad surprising seeing as Garmin UK are just up the road. On the day I popped in there with the first Quest 2 they didn't think they were in a poor reception area. Their first 'fix' was to replace the aerial which may be an indication as to where the fault may lie.

A little chat with Garmin... eventually.

Hi all,
Had the time today to speak to Garmin and arrange a return (after a 50 minute wait ) and after explaining my Qst2 problems the guys first comment was that "they are a bit slow". So, not something that they put in their publicity then I pointed out???

I have returned the unit to them today with an appropriate covering letter listing the problems, my extreme disappointment etc and that I do not want a tweaked up/replacement Quest 2 as a solution, but would be interested in an upgrade to another model please.

So I'll wait and see, 10 days I was told today, in the meantime it's back to the old tankbag/dog eared map combination. Ho hum