View Full Version : Brake pulsing / judder
Hi folks,
I have an 09 GS and over the past few thousand miles there is an increasing pulsing when braking gently at low speeds. I have taken it to my local dealer twice, and both times they have test ridden it and said there is no problem and the discs are in spec. I have read the threads on here but I am now stuck really.
I feel like I am going mad. The pulsing is definitely there, to the point where it is actually uncomfortable braking at low speed (especially with a passenger). When I got home from the latest trip to the dealer I touched both discs. The right one was warm and the left a lot cooler. Is this likely to be connected with the problem, or nothing to worry about? Also, with the front wheel clear of the ground I can spin the wheel and hear that one of the discs is not right as the usual sound of the pads on disc changes once per revolution.
My next step is to take it to another dealer, but I am worried that I will get the same response. Is there any advice that you guys have or your own experiences of getting this problem sorted under warranty?
Much obliged,
Matt :(
Does it do it when you brake hard? The symptom sounds to me like a warped disc - when the dealer said the discs were "in spec" did the mechanics actually put a gauge on them?
My old ZX6 used to warp discs fairly regularly (thankfully my GS hasn't yet) and a telltale sign was pulsing under braking.
Which dealer has told you they are in spec?
Which dealer has told you they are in spec?
Cannon's at Braintree. The technician told me I need to brake harder as gentle braking makes it worse and it is due to the linked brakes. :confused:
The sensation is mainly at "town speeds" and the slower I am and the more gently I brake the more I feel it.
I am intrigued at the different temperatures of the discs and I am interested if other people have found this or if it is a red herring.
:comfort
Outtomunch
29-04-10, 16:50
It's not uncommon.
Over the years WBM have addressed the issue with different bolt/washer/disc combinations but it's never gone completley away.
The weird thing is there is never an obvious reason and it affects all model years.
Mine's an 'o5 and I've got through several sets of discs. 6,000 miles ago I had some '09 discs and bolts fitted which 'float' a lot more than previous types and, so far, no probs - time will tell.
On previous occasions my dealer said the run-out was in spec but still changed them under warranty. When changed the pulsing went away (for a while!).
It's a well documented problem so I thnik you dealer is being somewhat less than helpful - 'brake harder', what a feckwit thing to tell you :rolleyes:
Oh, my pulsing also happened at low speed (not so much if at all at high speed) which is strange. On other bikes I've owned that have warped discs it was always the other way around :confused:
Andres
Thanks for the info.
If there is anyone here from a dealer within 100 miles of Essex who will get the discs done under warranty for me, please send me a pm. I do not mind a ride, I just get pissed off when I know there is a problem and the technician is not having any of it. :rob
Cannon's at Braintree. The technician told me I need to brake harder as gentle braking makes it worse and it is due to the linked brakes. :confused:
Your brakes should not pulse just because you are braking gently. I would suggest you seek a second opinion. You could try SBW Motorrad in Hertford as I suspect they would be the next closest dealer to you.
original_concept
29-04-10, 17:57
This might not make any sense, but here you go.
I had too have had the same problem as you and received the same wisdom. I solved the juddering by replacing the front brake pads with a set from Steptoe.
Don't ask me why, all I know is that I've not felt the judder since.
I've said it before and I'll say it again...
Are you sure you don't have a stuck brake piston(s)? Have you tried cleaning the calipers and piston, with the pads out and the pistons pumped out(not all the way, just a bit more than normal)
It did, and continues to do, wonders on my bike. You might try a bit of emery paper to take the sheen off the pad faces too...
I'm in all weekend, and am within 100 miles of Essex. So if you fancy mowing my front lawn, I'll clean your brakes :thumb
:D
I've said it before and I'll say it again...
Are you sure you don't have a stuck brake piston(s)? Have you tried cleaning the calipers and piston, with the pads out and the pistons pumped out(not all the way, just a bit more than normal)
It did, and continues to do, wonders on my bike. You might try a bit of emery paper to take the sheen off the pad faces too...
I'm in all weekend, and am within 100 miles of Essex. So if you fancy mowing my front lawn, I'll clean your brakes :thumb
:D
I will have a look at the brakes over the weekend. I guess I take the pads out then attack the pistons with some brake cleaner stuff? I am not a whizz when it comes to these things, if you could not tell.
I may also try a different set of pads too. :thumb
Matt
Your brakes should not pulse just because you are braking gently. I would suggest you seek a second opinion. You could try SBW Motorrad in Hertford as I suspect they would be the next closest dealer to you.
I called them a short while ago and Steve was very helpful. As soon as their brake testing machine thingy comes back from being repaired they are happy to have a look. If the DIY approach does not work, I will trundle over there.
Much obliged. :thumb
Matt
Just get a can or brake cleaner and give each caliper a third of the can, once it's removed and the pads are out.
Here's a 'HOWTO' - http://www.r1200gs.info/howto/brakepads.html
The bolts are 30nm when you put them back... If the pins are corroded then get new ones from the dealer - I think all 3 cost me a tenner. Make sure the rear caliper sliding part is clean too - and grease it! And don't forget a splodge of coppa grease on the back of the pads!
Rollin Bone
29-04-10, 20:55
Mine are doing the exact same, low speed snatch, dealer can feel it but as discs are in spec, wont change, 08 plate with 12000 mile they did change my discs at 6000 but only cured problem for 3000 miles.
Regards RB
yup, my '56 GSA with 8k on it does exactly the same. Glad I came across this thread as I'd been mulling over new discs even though I can't detect a run out. Time for some cleaning and some changed pads I think. But which pads...?!
Roadsweeper
29-04-10, 22:59
2008 1200gs with 10k miles week before warranty expires popped it in to the dealers . mechanic did a two minute road tast came back and said new discs under warranty.
Tha main symptom was a pulse when braking at slow speeds. the pulse was felt through the bars. Nothing heavy did not move the bars just a gentle resonance.
if braking heavy from speed not as aware of it. felt it most just as you slowed to walking pace and started to ease off on the braking as you came to a halt.
As has been said, this was very much a hot topic in the forum two or three years ago with many threads, ideas and attempts to explain what was going on and how to fix it. For whatever reason, the number of reports of the problem have seemingly become much lower.
What is clear is that many disks were changed under warrenty around that time and that the issue is well known to the dealers so a refusal to properly address your problem is simply ignorant.
This is really useful stuff. If the DIY approach does not work I am hopeful that a trip to SBW will sort it.
Regards,
Matt :thumb
MY 09 GS does exactly the same..... just had the 1st service done at Cannon's .... on a side note did yo know that Matthew's gone???
Got them to investigate & told it's a "characteristic" ......not impressed or convinced.
I'm soon to book it into another dealer for them to have the third look at the fuel gauge ....I'll ask them to take another look at the brakes.
Hi Matt
Same symptoms I had as my front discs started to warp. Cleaning is a good place to start but may not be enough if the discs are stating to warp.
My right disc was just about in tolerance the first time I went to Lind but after a day's hard braking on a course they were properly buggered and then changed under warranty.
Cannons nonsense about brake harder is apalling. The judder will be less under hard braking (until the warping gets bigger) but that's like trying to cure toothache with whisky; the pain goes away for a bit but you still have a bad tooth.
Funnily enough, I had a slight pulse yesterday. Will give them a clean and then do some emergency stop practice to find out what the story is, especially as the warranty on my brakes ends in October.
MY 09 GS does exactly the same..... just had the 1st service done at Cannon's .... on a side note did yo know that Matthew's gone???
Got them to investigate & told it's a "characteristic" ......not impressed or convinced.
I'm soon to book it into another dealer for them to have the third look at the fuel gauge ....I'll ask them to take another look at the brakes.
It is a shame about Matthew as he was making a real difference. If I had known he had gone I would not have gone back there.
Telling people it is a "characteristic" is just utter bollocks, and I am pleased it is not just me they are treating like a fuckwit. Telling me I brake too gently and that I need to brake harder left me amazed.
I will update this thread with how I get along at SBW when I go there, just so other folks know if there is a different attitude from another dealer.
In the meantime, if you want to go for a ride so we can bitch and moan about our brakes and Cannon's let me know. :rob
Cheers,
Matt
So giving the calipers a good clean didn't work for you then?
So giving the calipers a good clean didn't work for you then?
Exactly. :thumb
The other part of "Characteristic" i asked to have checked was...
On light rear brake application just before you come to a stop the pedal drop a small amount without any additional input from me.
When the bike was being serviced i took out an 09 courtesy GS ....it did exactly the same???
:( Bummer....
it was a bit of a bad day, what with the brakes and also the remus headers not fitting. Hopefully i will actually be out and doing some miles tomorrow.
Hi folks,
The right one was warm and the left a lot cooler.
:(
I haven't noticed the above .... but what i do find is that the brake dust is in greater amounts coming from the left disc as opposed to the right...
There are no seized /partially or sticking pistons, both disc are free and float with no resistance??
Now if the brake fluid line from the master cylinder went to the left caliper before the right i might have considered it as the reason ... but the main feed "Tee's" off on the bottom yoke.... i'm still trying to work it out..
Hi all,
Just to resurrect this one, I went for my 12,000 mile service at Cannon following a trip around the alps with my brakes now clearly juddering from any speed.
They measured the run-out, found it to be out of tolerance (0.16mm on one disc, virtually nothing on the other) and put in a claim to BMW. All now agreed and I will be getting new discs and pads fitted in the next week or so.
Here's hoping it will not happen again. :augie
Matt
Hi all,
Just to resurrect this one, I went for my 12,000 mile service at Cannon following a trip around the alps with my brakes now clearly juddering from any speed.
They measured the run-out, found it to be out of tolerance (0.16mm on one disc, virtually nothing on the other) and put in a claim to BMW. All now agreed and I will be getting new discs and pads fitted in the next week or so.
Here's hoping it will not happen again. :augie
Matt
I won't say I told you so, but I told you so. :P
Good result.
I won't say I told you so, but I told you so. :P
Good result.
You really are a wise Badger :bow
Finally going in to get the brakes sorted this week. Any tips for how to "run in" new brakes to make sure I get the best from them? I have searched here but not found anything specific, but that may be because I am being a bit too much of a geek and I just need to get out and ride? :augie
Cheers,
Matt
The instructions that come with new pads normally says avoid unecessarily hard braking for the first hundred miles or so until the surfaces of the pads (and discs if they are new) have bedded in.
Thereafter just go for it.
I've been reading this forum for several years and I've never seen a definitive explanation as to why GS disks warp or cause shudder, but it's been going on for years. The fact that one of your disks warped and the other hasn't shows that it's not your riding style but more likely something down to the disk itself, or variations in the way they are located.
I'm often hard on the brakes as I like chasing sports bikes. In hundreds of thousands of miles on GS's I've only replaced disks because they have worn too thin, not because they have warped so I don't think hammering them causes a problem. I reckon it's a QC issue with the disk material myself, but that's just a guess.
I dont know if this will help but my first 1200 had slight brake judder at lo speeds.Turned out the rear wheel bearing was loose in the housing.It was not the judder that made us find it but the eventual brake binding.Only happened after the drive warmed up tho!.
by the by i always use rear brake in towns/low speeds.
Had brake judder on my 09 GS at 6000 miles.
had front discs replaced under warranty along with the pads.Very common i believe.Did notice that the new discs have the Brembo logo on them but the originals did not.:confused:
Week after the change Riders of Cardiff phoned me up and said although the pads have to be changed with the discs, BMW wont pay for the pads!:mad:
Told them no way was i paying for new pads after only 6000 miles, they were less than 20% worn.
Haven't heard from them since.:D
vBulletin® v3.6.8, Copyright ©2000-2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.