View Full Version : How Should You Ride Through Water
Hi Guys,
This might be a stupid question but how should you ride through water say a foot to three foot deep on a 1200GSA
Cheers
Ty
Foot deep...... slowly
Three feet deep....... on a ferry :thumb
If it's deeper than this, don't do it unless you've fitted a snorkel.
http://www.ukgser.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=51178&stc=1
Stormchaser
07-12-06, 10:55
That's a cracking photo Wiz!
That's a cracking photo Wiz!
I have to thank Dan (thetoad) for that one. I was a bit busy trying to avoid filling the air intake (about a half inch above the water) to pop off the bike and setup the timer :rolleyes:
Liv,Norway
07-12-06, 11:05
Hi Tyronem!
I'm glad you asked, and I'm hoping for some good answears from the experts here.
Me? I'm a sissy - can't help! :o But I love to watch! :thumb
:) Liv.
Foot deep...... slowly
Three feet deep....... on a ferry :thumb
If it's deeper than this, don't do it unless you've fitted a snorkel.
http://www.ukgser.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=51178&stc=1
Quality foto :thumb
I wasn't the Lagan I take it :eek
A face of total concentration m8 :clap :clap
Stick it in second gear and keep the revs up
and the bike bike will make it to the other side :thumb
So where abouts are the air intakes on these 12's (I've the GS version, not GSA)?
Its on the right hand side as you sit on the bike they are fairly easy to get to
better than the adventure there a complete ball ache in fack i gave up on trying to fit one. :(
Best way to get across water is in a boat :D
Foot deep...... slowly
Three feet deep....... on a ferry :thumb
If it's deeper than this, don't do it unless you've fitted a snorkel.
http://www.ukgser.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=51178&stc=1
hummmm, the proof of the pudding is in the eating and all that, but I'd have to say from experience that that is too deep...
That looks like a similar speed to the crossing I made of Shilton Ford and I'm still waiting to get mind back.
I know there are a few here that are going to disagree, but IMO there are a couple of problems with the design of this bike.
If you have a look at Wizzards picture, the BMW horizontal (WTF???) snorkel is on the right side of the bike, tucked in behind the plastic tank. The air intake is very near the bottom front suspension yoke. In a 4x4 I was always taught to create a bow wave and push it through, dropping the power only as you start to exit the water, therefor not pushing water up the dry road.
If you look at the pic, you'll see that this bow wave has worked to create a lower level of water around the back of the tank, in theory giving you a better ability to wade. The trouble is if you look at the front of the bike, you've got water over the front mud guard and also over the lower yoke, the way the whole thing is designed it is likely that this will lift water and funnel it to the air intake.
The other dumb thing about the design is that if you open the airbox up and look inside, you'll see that there is a hole on the bottom left side of the airbox, this is the engine breather, any water that you do get into your airbox, but not into the cylinders has no where to go but down, through the breather pipe and into the sump - emulsifying the water which can not be a good thing in the long run.
In hindsight it is possible that the design of the ford might have come into play for me as I managed to get over three quarters of the way across before the engine cut out and I was actually climbing the slope out of the ford at this point… the BMW snorkel is angled slightly downwards, so I’m guessing as I was climbing out the snorkel leveled and made it easier for water to enter, but I have no way of knowing for sure.
On the subject of fitting snorkels, I've had a bit of a hunt about for one but can't find anything specific, TT used to do one apparently but they dont now. I spoke to a guy on the TT stand at the bike show and he suggested a very simple mod that works well for him - he's cut a plastic coke bottle in half and put the bottom half over the end of the BMW snorkel, this acts to stop water being driven into the airbox.
Another mod that has been suggested to me is to increase the height of the breather pipe by inserting an additional pipe inside the airbox.
As I say I know there are a few of you that will disagree with me, but get this wrong and it becomes a very expensive exercise and all BMW's claims that this is a bike built to handle anything Mother Nature can throw at is disappear out of the window. :(
Sorry to sound such a causionary note, but I've learnt a lot of this at my own cost, which is a real shame because like my Land Cruiser I fully believed the GSA was going to be a do anything go anywhere kind of vehicle....
Always ride with extreme caution and respect for your pillion ;)
http://timolgra.smugmug.com/photos/97893534-L.jpg
Making a contolled entry and exit without soaking the cameraman :thumb
http://timolgra.smugmug.com/photos/97891162-L.jpg
Greg Masters
07-12-06, 13:27
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/GregMasters/smilies/lite3.gif
http://www.ukgser.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=51178&stc=1
This was towards the end of a great day on the East Midlands do this year.
This 'wizzard' ford is at Little Lawford near Rugby. We did have one GS flood, but it wasn't Wizzard's. On this occassion, it was easily sorted.
:thumb
Greg
'Red October' is dead,..... long live 'Silver October' :thumb
earthmover
07-12-06, 15:12
Stick it in second gear and keep the revs up
and the bike bike will make it to the other side :thumb
On a 1200 that would be about 40 MPH :D
I wouldn't even try to ride through 3ft of water on the Honda, let alone the GS, at that depth either find a way round, or push it through.
Even "Go anywhere" vehicles have their limitations. I've never drowned a bike yet, but I have done a few 4x4's.
Mark
I wouldn't even try to ride through 3ft of water on the Honda, let alone the GS
At three foot you are right. Another problem, as I see it, though is that there is no advise given anywhere in the manual or any of the accompanying documentation to suggest what the maximum wade depth for these bikes actually is. I know the bike has a huge suspension travel, but there must be someway to word it... "when wading BMW advise that you go through water no deeper than half the height of the front wheel" for example... that still leaves plenty of margin to error.
I did ask BMW UK for a statement on what you can reasonable expect the bike to be able to acheive... the initial answer I got was that the bikes are not built to go through water... FULL STOP :eek:
This the later revised to a very wishy washy... it all depends.
I guess I am expecting too much if I really thought I'd get any kind of half way sensible advise...
Well how very BMW, Their version of a disclaimer no doubt. wonder how they word their manual for the X5. can't imagine KTM taking this approach. huh well they sell 4x4s and off road motorcycles that don't get covered for off road use.
just cos you don't think many people will go off roading doesn't mean none of your products will ever see mud. come on BMW pull yer finger out.
Meanwhile i'm investigating an adaption for both GS and GSA which will bring the air intake upto top yoke level then we can do some proper wading. I'll keep yer posted i'll also be looking at the breather tube being extended so's not to take water into the engine should it get in the airbox.
Blue Sweeper
07-12-06, 17:57
This one can go very deep. :thumb
http://www.ukgser.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=53849&stc=1
This one can go very deep. :thumb
http://www.ukgser.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=53849&stc=1
ok smartarse ;) is that what I think it is? Just a washing machine waste pipe?
Vacuum cleaner hose, I suspect.
Greg Masters
07-12-06, 18:26
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/GregMasters/smilies/lite3.gif
This one can go very deep. :thumb
http://www.ukgser.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=53849&stc=1
Erm, the last time I saw that snorkel, it was stuck in quite shallow water!
:eek:
Greg
http://www.dropshots.com/photos/152633/20061028/153729.jpg
Nice 'n' Fat
07-12-06, 20:09
I've always wondered what the advantages are of submerging a hot engine and transmission into cold water :nono
Greg Masters
07-12-06, 20:40
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/GregMasters/smilies/lite3.gif
I've always wondered what the advantages are of submerging a hot engine and transmission into cold water :nono
This came up some time ago in this thread (http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8195)
Greg
One detail one should consider before riding with the GS in deep water is the starter. It's a standard car starter made in Poland, it's mounted at the bottom of the engine and it's open for water. :confused:
I drove once through 60 cm deep sweetwater. After some time the starter begun to sound bad to I took it apart. I found that all grease was gone from the planet gear and instead it was filled with sand. :eek: BMW replaced it on warranty. :o
Rule 1: After riding through deep water you must take the starter apart, clean it, and grease the planet gear.
Rule 2: After riding through salt water you will have a green starter. Sell the bike as fast as you can!
Be warned even the biggest of vehicles can have problems admittedly in water over 4' deep.
SpyInTheCamp
08-12-06, 11:11
Be warned even the biggest of vehicles can have problems admittedly in water over 4' deep.
That's what you get for buying a one tonnie! :rolleyes:
Kai
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/GregMasters/smilies/lite3.gif
This came up some time ago in this thread (http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8195)
Greg
Cheers for pointing that one out Greg, I did a search before but couldnt find anything like this.
Putting the thermal shock stuff aside, its an excellent solution, its really simple which is the key to all excellent solutions. I had all kinds of ideas for mods using drysuit wrist seals etc, but this is really cool.
Sorry Blue Sweeper, the smartar*e comment wasn't meant as a personal dig, I'm just really with the simplicity of the mod.
Good one BiG DoM... thats some smart thinking!
Phil Clarke
08-12-06, 12:20
I don't think the thermal shock issue is a problem - I've ridden a number of aircooled bikes through very deep water and i have never had any bother. I think cast iron (in the liners) is pretty resistant to this kind of behaviour once it has anealed (probably after only a few hundred miles) and given that the grade used for liners has a similar rate of expansion to the alloy then its unlikely to cause the liner to break away from the barrel.
If it was a problem people would be siezing their bikes everytime they ran through a puddle.
Phil
How Should You Ride Through Water ?
As Fast And Out Of Control As Possible.
But first, check to see if the water is sufficiently muddy and smelly, then line yourself up and give it the berries. If you actually make it through that is OK but it's much better for everyone if you get to the deepest point, stall and fall over. Then stand up looking like the creature from the black lagoon and take a bow to your audience :thumb :D
JohnnyBoxer
08-12-06, 13:41
On my Honda XR's I've had it lapping level on the seat in the past (even deeper than the pic below) and never drowned a bike
Airbox up high, naturally
The GS maybe a semi offroad bike, but it's NOT a specifically purpose built off-road bike from the ground up so to speak.
Basically all the 4v boxer engines & bikes have the same airboxes/electrics/fuel injection/drivetrains/frames/wheels/forks..........so despite what we think BMW just give it a few tweaks and a bit of off-road styling for a GS when basically it is a road going BMW bike derivative :rolleyes:
Can't really see the attraction of fording on a GS, when potential engine damage/crash damage/self harm through injury is a very realistic probability
I keep mine firmly on Tarmac and polish it in a way that Tarka would approve :thumb - feck buying a bike for £10k and throwing through a 2' Ford or muddy rut & rock strewn off road section
Pic below from the Picos was pretty deep,long and with a fast eddy - you'll be pleased to know after a crafty dab I stayed on, didn't drop it and rode through the rest of it feet-up :D
Is that Fast Eddy on the other bank? :confused: ;)
JohnnyBoxer
08-12-06, 13:46
Personally I favour the - 'Wheelie through Water' (Keeps your feet dry :D :D )
1995 Cambrian Rally below................on cue for the Event photographer :D :D
The GS maybe a semi offroad bike, but it's NOT a specifically purpose built off-road bike from the ground up so to speak.
Basically all the 4v boxer engines have the airboxes/electrics/fuel injection/drivetrains/frames/wheels/forks..........so despite what we think BMW just give it a few tweaks and a bit of off-road styling for a GS when basically it is a road going BMW bike derivative :rolleyes:
Can't really see the attraction of fording on a GS, when potential engine damage/crash damage/self harm through injury is a very realistic probability
I keep mine firmly on Tarmac and polish it in a way that Tarka would approve :thumb - feck buying a bike for £10k and throwing through a 2' Ford or muddy rut & rock strewn off road section
You know what... the more I read that, the more I think you've hit the nail on the head there...
How Should You Ride Through Water?
Simple - don't, it's not designed for that sort of caper!
ONE TONNE! That is prime Swedish beef, 4.5 tonne 6x6 truck which has a small bout of hydrophobia.
SpyInTheCamp
08-12-06, 14:13
ONE TONNE! That is prime Swedish beef, 4.5 tonne 6x6 truck which has a small bout of hydrophobia.
Oops - sorry. Didn't look properly. :o Seeing a one tonnie stranded or broken down seems so natural.
Kai
Stormchaser
08-12-06, 14:30
You know what... the more I read that, the more I think you've hit the nail on the head there...
I agree. There are a hundred reasons why I ride a GS, but drowning it in a river doesn't figure on the list. Another reason I didn't buy it was for enduro plugging round a waterlogged mountain/forest.
The GS is a road based bike that, as we all know, can perform well on gravel tracks (if you have the skills) but it is really a soft-roader at best. Any bike can be taken off-road of course (Sjaak Lucassen and R1). But if off-roading is your thing, why not use a true enduro bike and do it right?
I simply can't see the sense in taking a £10,000 road bike and trashing it. I have a background in competition trials so I think I have the right credentials to comment. That said, I think the limited off-road ability is useful - especially if you find yourself off the beaten track and need to get to where you need to be.
What I have said is a personal view and will likely raise howls of protest - fair enough. But I do really enjoy the photo's of GSs fording and mudplugging - it's just not for me.
PS: Liquidlan, none of this is remotely directed at you mate - I really sympathise with your situation - what a piece of bad luck. I hope you're back on the bike real soon.
2 wheel humvee
08-12-06, 19:03
The GS maybe a semi offroad bike, but it's NOT a specifically purpose built off-road bike from the ground up so to speak.
Basically all the 4v boxer engines & bikes have the same airboxes/electrics/fuel injection/drivetrains/frames/wheels/forks..........so despite what we think BMW just give it a few tweaks and a bit of off-road styling for a GS when basically it is a road going BMW bike derivative :rolleyes:
Can't really see the attraction of fording on a GS, when potential engine damage/crash damage/self harm through injury is a very realistic probability
I keep mine firmly on Tarmac and polish it in a way that Tarka would approve :thumb - feck buying a bike for £10k and throwing through a 2' Ford or muddy rut & rock strewn off road section
[/B] :D
Johnny and I have discussed this in the past and we share the same view,having both been brought up with a variety of trail/enduro/trial bikes etc.
Hat's off to those who do take their GS's fording/off roading,as long as the bike brings a grin to your face-that's what matters most :thumb
And in answer to the original question "How should you ride through water"
if it looks deeper than half way up the wheels find a bridge or another route ;)
Hi Guys,
This might be a stupid question but how should you ride through water say a foot to three foot deep on a 1200GSA
Cheers
Ty
Try a KLX 650 - it's cheaper.
Ride from Whitley Bay to Llandovery, go through this 3 times and then ride home.
Still reckon that's only about 2 feet though... :nenau
Greg Masters
08-12-06, 22:17
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/GregMasters/smilies/lite3.gif
http://www.ukgser.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56156&stc=1
Still reckon that's only about 2 feet though... :nenau
If you can see the top of the front tyre, it's only 2 feet deep max!
Greg
Liv,Norway
09-12-06, 11:16
There are two kids at that picture.
The happiest one are on the bike! :thumb
A dirty kid are a happy kid!
:bounce1 Liv.
(Please correct me if I'm wrong.)
So what I guess most of you are saying is Don't ride an £11,000 bike through anything deeper then surface water
Thanks guys
Desert Rat
09-12-06, 12:01
Just dont go to fast otherwise you'll get wet.
So what I guess most of you are saying is Don't ride an £11,000 bike through anything deeper then surface water
Thanks guys
But if you did happen across something a bit deeper I always go as slow as I can slipping the clutch to keep the revs up. Try going through some shallow water first.
Another thing I do when going through very deep water is clench my cheeks together I don't suppose it helps but it makes me feel better. ;)
Another thing I do when going through very deep water is clench my cheeks together I don't suppose it helps but it makes me feel better. ;)
Does that help prevent water ingress or help when you hear how much the cost of repair is.
Ty :thumb
Does that help prevent water ingress or help when you hear how much the cost of repair is.
Ty :thumb
It is definitely to stop seepage in and out :eek:
What type of water did you plan on riding through when you posted the question?
SpyInTheCamp
09-12-06, 15:52
So what I guess most of you are saying is Don't ride an £11,000 bike through anything deeper then surface water
I have to say that I am somewhat bemused by this. Fair enough if you are talking about a sportsbike etc., but when the BWM marketing and promo machine does its best to demonstrate the GS's all round ability (through fancy pics & videos of the bikes on tough terrain somwhere in the heart of darkness) then they are clearly endorsing such use of the bikes themselves.
I'm off to read the manual again to see if it tells me to avoid water that's over xx cm deep or rock terrain etc. It must be there because no doubt ther'll be stuff about not fiddling with switches on the move because it is dangerous etc. :rolleyes:
It also struck me as strange when I did the BWM offroad course that they avoided the big water crossing at the end of the second day. Mainly due to the height & position of the 1200's air intake. :(
BTW anyone know whether the KTM Adv is similarly restricted in its use?
Kai
Okay, okay!
Reality check: Go out to your GS with a tape measure and see how deep 3 feet is against your bike!!
In my KLX pic the water is only about 20" deep vs. a 21" front wheel?
Add another 15" to that?
:nenau
Okay, okay!
Reality check: Go out to your GS with a tape measure and see how deep 3 feet is against your bike!!
In my KLX pic the water is only about 20" deep vs. a 21" front wheel?
Add another 15" to that?
:nenau
Easy with the "reality check" there Chris ;) ... I think if you take any vehicle through more than 2.5-3foot of water you are taking a wrisk and it is on your own head... unless you've got a vehicle design to handle more than that...
What we are talking about here is a bike that can drown out in less than 1.5 foot of water and can cost a fortune to repair... trust me I know and I've only just got mine back for my efforts.
Spy, you raise and interesting point, one that would be well worth taking up with your dealer if you are in the potision that you bought your bike under a consumer contract and found it didnt meet the reasonable expectations that the marketing material might have lead you to have of the bike.
The really stupid thing is that I'm pretty sure you'll find a lot of road bikes are more able to handle water crossings that the "purpose designed" :D BMW is.
Easy with the "reality check" there Chris ;) ... I think if you take any vehicle through more than 2.5-3foot of water you are taking a wrisk and it is on your own head... unless you've got a vehicle design to handle more than that...
What we are talking about here is a bike that can drown out in less than 1.5 foot of water and can cost a fortune to repair... trust me I know and I've only just got mine back for my efforts.
Spy, you raise and interesting point, one that would be well worth taking up with your dealer if you are in the potision that you bought your bike under a consumer contract and found it didnt meet the reasonable expectations that the marketing material might have lead you to have of the bike.
The really stupid thing is that I'm pretty sure you'll find a lot of road bikes are more able to handle water crossings that the "purpose designed" :D BMW is.
My intention was only to convey how deep 3 feet of water actually is. :)
My intention was only to convey how deep 3 feet of water actually is. :)
Sorry, misread your context ;)
Got to admit that after many years competition trials riding not only the cost but the idea of a quarter ton bike off road doesn't seem such good an idea. Also that fact that water ingress into the paralever on my GSA means that it needs a new drive shaft, UJ's & bearings after just 18 months & 16 k miles :eek: will keep mine away from any water above a couple of inches in depth. Apparently the fact that the rubber "boot" between the paralever & the bevel box is now only secured with a cable tie rather than a jubilee type clip means that there has been an increase in the number of bikes with the problem above - so I'd also be very careful with the hose pipe / pressure washer & forget the fords altogether.
If your going to off road get a pukka off roader as well as the GS :thumb
Ade
Tell me about it, it started to rain today when I was out on mine... I only popped into Swindon, but that was enough to make me wonder if I should try and get it on a bus for the journey home :D
My intention was only to convey how deep 3 feet of water actually is. :)
21" front wheel Chris +3" of tyre each side = 27" but I agree that the KLX was only in about 2' of water. I have jus taken a tape measure to my 1150 and 3' is the height of the pillion saddle.
Had a good time playing in the floodwater up here. Road Closed signs = fun. The first time I had tried fording deepish water, up to the pots but only spashing over them. Didn't miss a beat and I'll check the final drive oil in case it's sooooked in water.
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