Touratech - Again

Gs Craig said:
This is not intended to cause offence to anyone in anyway



What i'm trying to get at is i think DIXONs are S**t.
Expensive on a lot of things and not always enough stock so i don't shop there. I go elsewhere.


Hope i've not upset anyone?

:):):):):)
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:topic

LOL! Only cos you mentioned Dixons!! :D

The fact is that exactly the same thing happened ~6 years ago on the automotive front. Manufacturers were price fixing and due to the UK consumers purchasing from Europe they HAD to adopt a different pricing policy in the UK or risk their UK franchises going out of business.

I do wonder what's the point of having a EU commission on fair trading when they only recognise the issue when it effects more than one country (re reply from the office idiot further up the post :eek). Perhaps due to the (relatively) small volume of consumers in this particular market they feel that these fish are too small to fry?

The fact is that market forces, and ONLY market forces, will force TTUK and DE to adopt a "fair" market pricing. Many people will call it "business". My personal view is that it may be business but it is not morally acceptable. In my naivety I obviously expect the world to be fair :rolleyes::D

If I had £ZILLIONS I'd probably explore the legal aspects of whether or not TT.DE is allowed to effectively control the market in this way....unfortunately I don't..:(

But then again, if I did, would I be "bovvered"? :cool:

Which leads me to my final question (after rambling on for FAR too long!). Do TT offer discounts at the Motorbike show in October? If they don't, they ain't getting my wonga. I'll be sweet-talking a German chick to order my stuff!! :D

P
 
I think that you are being naive if you expect prices within the EU to be the same.

To get to that situation you will first have to harmonise taxation throughout the EU and to do that you will have to accept total Federalisation.

The reason why prices are different in Germany is simply because they have a different taxation system (do a Google search and see if you want to adopt theirs).

We, on the other-hand, have less direct taxation. That means we have the choice to be taxed or not by choosing to buy an item or do without.

You have the right to go to Germany and buy at their lower purchase prices and bring the purchase back and use it here.

TT Germany have to pay certain UK taxes to sell to you directly because that is an importation that attracts duty in the UK (try buying from a non-EU country and you will be taxed too).

Get real.

If you want EU harmonised (higher) taxation, vote for it.

If you want to keep our lower direct taxation and choose where you pay the tax, fine.

What you cannot have is low direct taxation and still take advantage of lower purchase taxes in Germany (unless you are prepared to travel there to buy).

Seems pretty equitable to me. :nenau
 
MikeP said:
If you want EU harmonised (higher) taxation, vote for it.
Click to expand...

If it comes hand in hand with adopting the Euro, then I'm all for it!

However, back on topic, I own a place in France. I've just ordered a pair of pannier racks. Before doing so I tried to compare prices to see where it would be better to buy them.

First, the Touratech website recognised that I was searching from the UK and wouldn't let me access the French site. It kept bouncing back to the UK one. Luckily, I had the French site saved as a favourite, so could get round it that way.

The prices in France are -sometimes - significantly lower than in the UK. However, with the exchange rate as it is at present the differences are less. This time round, I ordered from the UK.

The bone of contention of this thread is not whether the UK prices are fair, or what the level of service is from Touratech GB, but that our choice of where to buy from is artificially restricted by the Touratech organisation (i.e. the German head office applying restrictive practices to its subsidiaries).

I think we all believe that as the UK is part of the EU, we have a right to be able to choose where we buy stuff from.

Unfortunately (see much earlier posts), the various EU pen-pushers have decided that Touratech is within its rights to restrict trade.

Bring on the single currency!
 
Jacqueslemac said:
I

Unfortunately (see much earlier posts), the various EU pen-pushers have decided that Touratech is within its rights to restrict trade.
Click to expand...
I don't think it has much to do with Touratech wishing to restrict trade and much more to do with the UK Treasury wanting their slice of the cake.

TT Germany can sell to UK customers if it so wished but it would have to pay the UK Treasury to do so.

TT Germany would then face having a different pricing structure for the UK (and for each EU member country that has similarly different taxation systems).

It is far easier for TT to have a franchised dealer in each country and to pay import taxes for the stock that they send.

That means, the franchise holder will pass on the UK taxation (plus shipping/transport costs, staffing of the dealer, etc.) to the buyer.

Why people blame TT and not the Treasury is beyond me. :confused:

The analogy with the cartel system that used to exist is not relevant. You can buy from TT Germany if you go there, just as you can buy from M-Benz in Stuttgart if you go there.

The difference is that when you bring your new S-Class into the UK, you will be obliged to pay the UK duty (unless the car is used for 12 months in Germany first).

You should also pay the duty on the TT bling but that's not likely because no-one will ask you to register it here (unlike in Germany where every after-market item you bolt-on has to have a TUV certificate).

Living in the UK isn't as bleak as it's often made out to be!
 
MikeP said:
The difference is that when you bring your new S-Class into the UK, you will be obliged to pay the UK duty (unless the car is used for 12 months in Germany first).

!
Click to expand...

But would that apply if you bought the car in Germany and paid the local sales tax?

Another point, VAT in the UK is 17.5% and it's 19% in Germany. That should in theory reduce the differential.

Finally, if goods are imported from another EU member state into the UK are the goods subject to the import duty that is usually imposed on goods imported from non EU states?
 
MikeP said:
I don't think it has much to do with Touratech wishing to restrict trade and much more to do with the UK Treasury wanting their slice of the cake.

TT Germany can sell to UK customers if it so wished but it would have to pay the UK Treasury to do so.
Click to expand...

what's the uk treasury got to do with me buying, vat paid at source, items from germany?

i'd say it has far more to do with TT.de protecting their overseas agents. when said agents add nothing for the customer except higher prices and extended delivery times, i feel TT are doing their UK customers a disservice.
 
cookie said:
what's the uk treasury got to do with me buying, vat paid at source, items from germany?
Click to expand...
Edit: What I should have said is that the UK Treasury wants to be certain that it is not being diddled out of potential taxation revenue.

Even though VAT is paid, the importer has to satisfy the Treasury that it has been. The whole process of VAT declarations for importers is unattractive (a cynic might say that it's designed to be so to ensure that as much taxation as possible stays within borders).

The net result is that importers prefer to import through an agent (TT UK) who will collect the VAT at point of sale in the UK. The VAT collected in the UK goes to the UK Treasury.

TT has two options:

Sell directly with VAT paid at source and have to make HM Customs declarations for each sale, or import and get someone else to do the VAT bit locally.

When you factor-in all the potential for returns, changed orders etc. and their effects upon VAT, it is more sense for the importer to sell via an agent.
 
garfield said:
open borders and free trade.....my arse :spitfire
Click to expand...


Wot a fuss in a beer mug. Spend your energy riding to TT and go shop!
Yo Garfield ! not sure wot yer ar*e has to do with it!!
But, Yep :D
No visa required for travelling to and across E.U member states
Free trade- free to buy anything (as long as not restricted items by Law) you like and bring stuff back
.
.
.

So.... wot's the problem:confused:
Want something from the EU? GO THERE :thumb
 
KarltenM said:
Free trade- free to buy anything (as long as not restricted items by Law) you like and bring stuff back
.
.
.

So.... wot's the problem:confused:
Want something from the EU? GO THERE
Click to expand...

This is the point. We don't need to "go there" - we ARE there!

However, Touratech DE's policies mean we can only buy from the UK shop, not from other EU countries.
 
MikeP said:
Edit: What I should have said is that the UK Treasury wants to be certain that it is not being diddled out of potential taxation revenue.

Even though VAT is paid, the importer has to satisfy the Treasury that it has been. The whole process of VAT declarations for importers is unattractive (a cynic might say that it's designed to be so to ensure that as much taxation as possible stays within borders).

The net result is that importers prefer to import through an agent (TT UK) who will collect the VAT at point of sale in the UK. The VAT collected in the UK goes to the UK Treasury.

TT has two options:

Sell directly with VAT paid at source and have to make HM Customs declarations for each sale, or import and get someone else to do the VAT bit locally.

When you factor-in all the potential for returns, changed orders etc. and their effects upon VAT, it is more sense for the importer to sell via an agent.
Click to expand...

good explanation :)
 
Jacqueslemac said:
This is the point. We don't need to "go there" - we ARE there!

However, Touratech DE's policies mean we can only buy from the UK shop, not from other EU countries.
Click to expand...


Jacques :blast

What I meant is that anyone can simply go shopping there and be welcomed.

TOURATECH AG
Auf dem Zimmermann 7-9
D-78078 Niedereschach

It isn't rocket science -
(maybe to some, riding a bike further than just their 'local' - is)
 
Palerider said:
:topic

LOL! Only cos you mentioned Dixons!! :D


P
Click to expand...


I'm not off topic!
The point i was making is i don't like the service and prices at Dixons so i get my bits elsewhere.
Like others can if they don't like TT's service or prices!
You can now buy TT bits through Nippys as TT supply them.

As for TT price fixing? Don't see how they could be, don't you need a few companies selling the same product for this to happen?

As TT UK buy and import the product from TT Germany and are sole distributors, have they made a pact with themselfs to keep the prices high?
:thumb2
 
If you try and buy through TT De their website will automatically direct you to TT UK. The only way around this is if you drive to Germany and buy the goods in the shop, or get it shipped to an address in Germany and then shipped on to the UK.

That may not be price fixing per se but it is certainly a case of restricting UK residents in terms of where they can buy from, and in the process meaning we have to pay a higher price for a product that is sold at a cheaper price in Germany. Although the value of the pound against the euro has reduced the gap it will only be a matter of time before TT UK put up their prices to compensate.
 
Some good, for a change

I ordered pannier frames and mounting pucks for my Africa Twin last Monday afternoon (4th). None in stock but told that I should have them within 7-10 days (ho, ho, thinks I :D). Blow me down with a feather if they didn't arrive today by FedEx, inside the estimate - great service :thumb:thumb

Prices - 1 x pannier frames + 2 x 18mm mounting kits = £279.77 incl. VAT (without delivery charges).

German website = €214 + 2 x €43.99 = €300.98 inlc 19% MwSt.

At current exchange rate, €300.98 = £239.94 (using XE.com - tourist rate wouldn't be as good as that), so £40 extra to buy from the UK, which I didn't think was too over the top, bearing in mind that the carriage from Germany to the UK has to come out of that :nenau
 
..... and if you guys in England are being "soaked" ....

we Irish are being pis*ed on !
We find English prices cheap... thats why so many of us buy stuff in England, import, pay the tax... and its STILL cheaper!!!:spitfire

Use the German address and snail mail it back... good luck!
 
Horse said:
..... and if you guys in England are being "soaked" ....

we Irish are being pis*ed on !
We find English prices cheap... thats why so many of us buy stuff in England, import, pay the tax... and its STILL cheaper!!!:spitfire

Use the German address and snail mail it back... good luck!
Click to expand...

Surely not for Touratech though, as you can order stuff from Germany direct through Touratech DE?
 
But
If one would post on here the addresse of a Touratech shop(Franchise;)) Judging by my little brothers comment(the bastward lives around the corner of one for 2 years now and only told me last month:rolleyes:)they would have no problems taking orders from the UK or sending stuff to the UK:augie:augie
Just a idea:rolleyes::D:D
 
Lord Vader said:
But
If one would post on here the addresse of a Touratech shop(Franchise;)) Judging by my little brothers comment(the bastward lives around the corner of one for 2 years now and only told me last month:rolleyes:)they would have no problems taking orders from the UK or sending stuff to the UK:augie:augie
Just a idea:rolleyes::D:D
Click to expand...

Problem is TT have a clause in their distributors agreements that they can't supply to customers living "outside" their area:spitfire

Nothing to prevent your brother ordering stuff and doing whatever he likes with it though.:augie
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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