Which foot do you use??

Reading all the replies and the 50/50 split, I think the best answer is put on your best smile and talk to your examiner before you start, they are not out to fail you, just to see you put into practice roadcraft and proper use etc etc. Before my exam started, I explained to the examiner I always use right foot down, regardless of road etc etc due to a left hip/knee injury, he was happy and off we went. End of the exam asked if I ever used the back brake I said no as the GS12 has linked braking, so keep it friendly and they are very helpful.


As to the other suggestions about either training organisations I think this thread has purely highlighted differences of opinion, most of the "training" isn't about which foot goes to ground first. Contrary to what some would make you think.

GSwadd said:

Right or wrong, I always sit at the lights in gear with the clutch in and the front brake on, watching my mirrors very carefully. Probably put my right foot down first, as with linked brakes on the GS1200, who uses the rear at all? Don't think I have hardly touched it since buying it.

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With non-linked modern-tire equipped bikes I use a lot more front brake than rear when coming to a stop, unless profoundly wet or icy... with ABS linked servo BMW's I often don't bother with the rear brake at all... I let the available technology dictate my procedure, not the other way around. Modern tires are amazing... there is a 74 Norton sitting in the garage right now, and its wheels look like a pushbike compared to any of our modern BMW twins. Even with my R100GS with Saharas on it, I used to regularly chirp the front wheel at two stop signs on the way home just to keep aware of where the traction boundry was.

With regard to stopping in neutral, I almost never stop in neutral. At least two of the advanced riding classes I took here in the US strongly advocate stopping in 1st gear with left foot down. I approve of this for the following: Following... following and not stopping automobiles. I have had three situations in city riding in the last thirty years where some asshole behind me did not stop AND I noticed in time and managed to scoot over to the side out of the way as he/she/it rocketed by. Luck and habit saved, me, certainly not skill or analysis. In some situations I will do the shuffle and put myself in neutral to give the left wrist a rest for a long light, but I generally stay in 1st gear with an eye on my mirror until a couple of cars have interposed themselves between my rear and the open road.

On a fully loaded GS, I have occasionally come to a stop and unexpectedly found my foot slipping on oil/sand/dirt/wet/dead squirrel and been able to give a little squirt of power to help right myself before falling over. This only works if you are already in first gear, otherwise you either get nothing or stall and fall.

The short answer is do what the instructor who will be testing you wants you to do and then do what you feel most comfortable with after that...
If whatever you do is second nature and does not distract you from observing the dangerous world around you, it is of more benefit than any procedure which distracts you from your surroundings. Everything out there is either actively trying to kill you or passively failing to protect you. If this is not exactly true, it is still not a bad outlook to have while riding.

There are a number of general rules taught in a number of advanced riding courses that either pertain to older technology or apply in general terms but not specific ones. It is tough to know which rules to ignore and which ones to embrace. Some courses have you cover the front brake with a couple of fingers, others say NEVER... with my older bikes, two fingers was insufficent to stop... with my servo-equipped bikes and my relatively muscular hands (at least something is muscular) I can come down to a dead stop from a ton very fast with two fingers and no footpedal at all.

As far as staying alive, (as opposed to passing the course) it is important to work out routines... get used to doing things the same way most of the time... with the least concious thought.... because when shit goes wrong it usually goes wrong very quickly, and it is your habits that you will fall back on, not having time to sit down for a cuppa coffee or tea and a ciggie to contemplate your situation.

Personally I think that excersises that keep you looking far ahead (high eyeline or whatever they call it) and keep you scanning instruments, mirrors, the road, etc.. are at least as valuable as emergency braking & swerving excersises... the more time you have to react to things happening out there the less of an emergency their apperance constitutes...

just a Yank's opinion...

I agree with the sentiments regarding IAM. I have just done their training and (thankfully) passed the test.

They do seem to suck the joy out of riding bikes. I was also slightly put out by the "you know nothing, we'll teach you everything" attitude now I have been riding some 27 years. Training with Andy Smith in Cardiff was much more fun and I probably learnt more as I didn't feel so patronised. Having said that, I did pick up some tricks and do feel it was worthwhile.

FWIW I ride up to a junction, down to 1st gear, hold on clutch with left foot down, R on back brake. Do Hendon shuffle to rest left wrist if I think it will take a few moments, back to Left foot down ready to take off. Real pride is for roundabouts trying to filter, judge speed right, and never stop.

I very much doubt IAM examiner will pass/fail on that one thing.

1st baulked

What about the BMW shuffle caused by not being able to select 1st gear at lights etc. you need both feet down to rock the b***er back & forth, what do IAM advise for this situation, really good fun on a hill with pillion.

HORIZONTALLY OPPOSED said:

What about the BMW shuffle caused by not being able to select 1st gear at lights etc. you need both feet down to rock the b***er back & forth, what do IAM advise for this situation, really good fun on a hill with pillion.

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well, i'd advise letting the clutch out a gnats cock as you press the pedal. the IAM are probably still arguing amongst themselves on that one.

HORIZONTALLY OPPOSED said:

What about the BMW shuffle caused by not being able to select 1st gear at lights etc. you need both feet down to rock the b***er back & forth, what do IAM advise for this situation, really good fun on a hill with pillion.

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With a bit of practice you can pull in the clutch and select first monetarily before the gears stop spinning, it goes in cleanly and almost silently. Otherwise as Cookie says, slight pressure on gearlever and slowly feed the clutch until it clunks into first.

The last thing I would be trying to do is rock a fully loaded GS backward and forwards. A bit of gravel or wet manhole and it's "hello tarmac pie"

Packer said:

With a bit of practice you can pull in the clutch and select first monetarily before the gears stop spinning, it goes in cleanly and almost silently. Otherwise as Cookie says, slight pressure on gearlever and slowly feed the clutch until it clunks into first.

The last thing I would be trying to do is rock a fully loaded GS backward and forwards. A bit of gravel or wet manhole and it's "hello tarmac pie"

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I have tried all the methods as described & agree they all work, mostly, but not consistently depends on conditions, have had most success with the rocking method but am 6ft plus & about to collect my bus pass can still apply brute force as the final solution, just an embarassment when all remedies fail at traffic lights. Must say as of last service which was all fluids changes, a significant improvement has been noted, this includes 1st to 2nd without as many unwanted neutrals, have only 10,500mls on clock so maybe better things to come with low gear changes. Quirky but after 5yrs fault free & still admire the the concept,practicality & reliability of the machine, stops, starts lugs & don't complain.

It's been said before ...

HORIZONTALLY OPPOSED said:

What about the BMW shuffle caused by not being able to select 1st gear at lights etc. you need both feet down to rock the b***er back & forth, what do IAM advise for this situation, really good fun on a hill with pillion.

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... but we'll do it again. From Neutral, fully pull in clutch, apply light pressure to gear lever, slowly release clutch to about mid point whereupon said 1st gear will engage silently (with ear plugs) and smoothly

TheWarlock said:

Jaq, for what it's worth, I always stop left foot down.

Slowing the bike down from speed, you always use a 60/40 front/rear split on the brakes. Some people will tell you 70/30. My argument to that is show me the difference. Having drained off the speed for the hazard, you are now at the point of wanting to stop. This is usually at a point where lots of other vehicles have stopped and waited, eg. stop lines at junctions, traffic lights etc. All the thousands of other vehicles have left rubber deposits, engine oil drips, diesel spills etc in minute quantities at these points, gradually creating a potentially slippery environment.

At this point, you are in the realm of tyre grip trade-off. Your tyres can give 100% to grip. If you are trying to steer grip is being reduced. If you are trying to brake, grip is being reduced, as the tyres try to accomplish all the things you are asking them to do. Lose the grip of the front tyre, a very easy thing to do in a slippery environment, and you lose the bike. It is much better in these situations to allow the front tyre to grip, so in the last few yards of stopping, release the front bike and bring the bike to a halt on the back brake and, as you disengage drive with the clutch, put your left foot down. Then, if you wish, for longer stops, right foot down, left foot up, into neutral, left foot back down and right foot up covering the brake again, the Hendon Shuffle, so called because this is how police motorcyclists are trained and I think few people would argue that traffic motorcyclists don't know what they are doing.

For moving off again, right foot down, left foot up, engage gear, left foot back down, right foot up covering the brake as you move off.

I find it very strange that an IAM observer would advocate pulling the bike to a halt on the front brake as the stopping zones are well known to be hazardous places. While I am not an IAM observer or instructor, I would be looking for a second opinion on this if I were you.

Cue all the IAM observers to tell me how wrong I am.

HTH

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Exactly how I was advised to do it for IAM test (which I passed 1st time).

In practice now I tend to avoid the "shuffle" and leave the bike in gear with the clutch in and the back brake on. Only for a likely really long halt would I bother to shift out of neutral.

I'm surpised that an IAM observer would say otherwise, but it is, I suppose, an inevitable consequence of variation of opinion across a large organisation.

More often than not I put the right foot down, this is down to years of riding with a snapped ACL and wanting to protect my weaker leg. Does it really matter too much which foot you put down first anyway, hatever your comfortable using would be my advice.

Interesting thread - made me think about what I do and I realise that since having a modern MBW I only ever use the rear brake off road with ABS off. I never use it now on the road - and thats on TKC's in wet or dry. Not caused me a problem in 3 years

And I'm a left footer.

The Rozzers train their riders in this way with right foot down so it must be thge only way. maybe its a case of do whats necessary to pass the test and then do whats always felt natural. Abit like life really.

Jaq said:

Well, my IAM Observer says this isn't really good practice and I should put my right foot down first

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And he's bang on

Dave

The 'Hendon Shuffle' is a load of bollox!

I was taught the HS back in the 80's! Why do I need to cover my rear brake when stationary I asked... "cos you might get shunted up the rear" was the answer!

Worra loada bollox... if you think I'm gonna brace misen for impact you're out of order... I'm gear gone!

6% of all serious motorcycle accidents are rear end shunts!

More info at http://www.adventure.gs/training1.htm



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www.advancedridingtechniques.info

When aproching to stop i change down to neutral left foot down
and cover the back brake its how my dad tought me and i didnt have any trouble passing my I.A.M test and it works fine. When lights turn green
right foot down select first right foot down shoulder check and away you go
peace a piss

well the conclusion is in the end ''whatever makes you stop safely''.
being in control is the priority, not left or right foot a quick dance around the carpark!! it does not matter.

just the ability to be in full control when slowing down to stop..

i think its all a matter of how each of us were taught , and the habits we all pick up.

oblertone said:

... but we'll do it again. From Neutral, fully pull in clutch, apply light pressure to gear lever, slowly release clutch to about mid point whereupon said 1st gear will engage silently (with ear plugs) and smoothly

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Now full registered in brain cell, will put in to practice in future jaunts.

left foot always down, and first gear selected before i've stopped, only time the biek goes into neutral is when i'm getting off it. Guess its just the way i was taught

I use the most appropriate for the situation considering road surface, hazards and length of time thought to be stopped. Works for me.

I would always slow with my rear brake for the last few meters fro the reason of skid control as mentioned previously.

Just a quicky....???

Why would you want to change into Neutral???

Surely on a bike there is always a safe opportunity coming to get out, and if one arrives you should be ready for it by being in gear and not having to swap feet and do a wee dance?

One other reason you should be left foot down is so if you set off slowly you have left foot ready on the back brake for stability on a slow ride.

Im no expert but this works for me.

the ZC