► Tyre choices and emergency repairs

stumpi · Feb 20, 2008

So, there I am on the phone to Cannons sorting out my new 800 when I get to the subject of tyres, I say, can I have TKC80s please, and the "salesman" says, " I've never heard of them ". I almost fell off my chair. I questioned this with him many times, and he went as far as to say that he doesn't know anyone that rides any of their bikes off road. Hang on I say, you don't have a single customer that rides and 1150/1200 etc off road? No he said.

Now, tell me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't you expect a BMW enduro/dual sport bike salesman to have heard of these?! Jesus, even all the official promo pics have them on the bikes..

Losing my confidence with that lot fast, what with the dipsy girl that answered the phone yesterday, and now this.. Maybe I just need another cup of coffee.......... :spitfire

twisticles said:
Even I have heard of them, and I don't even own a GS

But when purchasing a new bike do they give you the option of tyres, or is it an additional cost over the price of the standard tyres (battlewings?) And did you get options on handguards/crash bars and stuff from your dealer?

This is the thing right, I want TKCs fitted as it's a "for fun" bike laning etc and the odd trip to work. I said can I have them fitted before delivery as thats the reason I'm buying it, he just had no idea, and said if we stock them we might be able to swap them for you but as yet I've no idea.
The bloody promo pics show them on the bikes ffs.

OK, then we got onto hand guards, he also had no idea, and all he could say was " theyre not shown on the spec sheet " I know that already I said, but it said the same with the 1200 and that came with them fitted. Pass he said.

Confidence = low

I dunno. :nenau

Chris G · Mar 2, 2008

GS800NR9 said:
I've seen a couple of references to optional tyres being fitted for delivery, most recently in the MCN article which says enduro tyres are a first fit option.

I've previously asked my dealer about this and he said you get what it comes with from the factory. Anyone here successfully asked for a no cost swap to enduro tyres yet?

Yup, me, Standard roady rubber swapped for TKC80's, gratis - dealer keeps the road tyres for his stores

Wizard said:
Been offered the same deal. Just a wee bit peeved that Enduro 3 Saharas don't come in a 150 fitment But I've e-mailed Metzeler and told them to sort it

As for the BM bashplate...... I prefer the idea of the TT bits, simpy because one good dig on the bashplate and it'll be a bugger to split it to get the filter off.

GS800NR9 said:
Having read the replies here i followed this up with BMW customer information and then BMW customer services. They are adamant that customers should not be getting offered a choice of tyres.

I guess the dealers offering this are doing so off their own backs. BMW state it's definitely not policy.

Wizard said:
Which is just plain stupid. Even the 1200GS came with a choice of tyres

twisticles · Mar 12, 2008

sijohnston said:
I don't want to fully road-biased tyres or total knobbies for my 'soon to arrive' 800GS. Like most, I'll probably spend more time on the road, but will definitely be going where 1200's dream of going. So, can someone ply me with the exact sizes of the wheels on the 800 please?

All your tech specs here

Rim, front 2.15 x 21"
Rim, rear 4.25 x 17"
Tyres, front 90/90 - 21 54V
Tyres, rear 150/70 - 17 69V

To be honest, if you're looking for a majority road-bias with occasional off-road use, you should see how you get on with the OEM Battlewings. Reviewers in South Africa seemed fairly pleased with them, except perhaps in sand or mud. But you could say the same for Tourances or any other tyre that is less than knobbly. The only other exact match (speed & load index considered) I can find is:

Anakees
MT90

The load index matches with reduced speed rating are:

Distanzia
TKC80
Karoo
Tourance
Heidenau K76

Question is (for new owners) what have BMW tested with the bike? And what do they say about running tube-type Vs tubeless-type? Well a day after my last posting I can check in the Owner's Manual, BMW recommend the following TL type tyres:

Anakee
Battlewing
Karoo *
TKC 80*

* These tyres are rated Q (160km/h) instead of V but can be used if "the permissable top speed is indicated by readily visible means (e.g. sticker affixed in the rider's field of vision)".

So, yeah, I was right about the only two tyres with correct load/speed rating

BM_donator · Mar 24, 2008

GS800NR9 said:
Twisticles,I thought i'd read somewhere that the tyres were going to be tube type. If the standard tyres are tubeless what does that mean for using rim locks? Would it cause any problems apart from the wheel needing a rebalance?

I've always used tube type tyres off-road before and have no experience repairing tubeless tyres. I take it there is nothing to prevent you putting tube type tyres on (except they don't appear to make a TKC80 TT in 150/70 B17 so it would need to be another brand).

Anyone know the answer to the reverse - can you run tubeless tyres on the 800 standard rims? (e.g. for a 3000 mile road tour)

paddy said:
You must have tubes when using the standrd rims. The spokes are in the wheel and not on the outside as on the 1200 GS etc.

GS800NR9 said:
BM , since there was no answer here to my queery i did the other obvious thing, rang the dealer.The standard rims are,as paddy says, requiring tubes which is good from my point of view as i'd rather change a tube on the road than try to plug a leak in a tubeless. (Personal preference i know).

You can run tubeless tyres, just with a tube inserted, which i believe is what i have to do in order to get the correct size TKC80 for the bike spec.(150/70 B17 69Q TL Conti TKC80 ).

Magwych · Mar 24, 2008

From the Conti Tyres web site regarding the fitting of Tube Type and Tube Less tyres :http://www.conti-tyres.co.uk/contibike/tyreinfo.php#tube

Tubeless and tubetype tyres
It is generally true that the fitting of tyres to a motorcycle should be in accordance with the stated manufacturer's specification for the specific model, otherwise the warranty may be rendered invalid. For example, if tubeless tyres are prescribed then tubeless tyres must be fitted. The same is true for tubetype tyres.

If no appropriate indication has been given in the vehicle specification, then in the following circumstances either tubeless or tubetype tyres can be fitted.

For Continental motorcycle tyres
All TL/TT-sidewalled tyres can be used with a tube without decreasing the speed range (except Z rated radials).
ALL Continental tyres labelled TL can be fitted to rims/wheels marked Tubeless. They can also be fitted on Tubed Type rims/wheels with a correctly sized Continental inner tube.
If Sport Attack, Road Attack and ContiForce tyres (Z rated radials) are fitted on Tubed Type rims/wheels with Continental inner tubes, the maximum speed is then restricted to 130 mph (210 km/h, from Z to H speed rating).
Continental tyres labelled TT can only be fitted on Tubed Type rims/wheels and must be fitted with a correctly sized Continental inner tube.
Please note that the maximum speed for tubeless tyres fitted with an inner-tube is 210 km/h (approx. 130 mph).

So looks like no problems with the 150 section TL TKC80 on the F800GS TT rims

twisticles · Mar 24, 2008

Just to clear up the confusion :augie

The 800GS requires tubes, whichever tyre you run. From the BMW recommended tyre list:

The Anakees and Battlewings are TT/TL type tyres, speed rated V (for Very fast)
The Karoos and TKC80s are TL type tyres speed rated Q (for Quite slow) with a max speed of 160kph.

I guess that limitation is partly due to the extra heat of a TL tyre with a tube in.

Magwych · Mar 24, 2008

I belive that the Q rating for Karoo and TKC80 is because of the large lumps of rubber projecting unsupported out of the tyres. Heat cannot be absorbed by the surrounding rubber and there is a greater mass of each "knobble" pulling away from the carcass.

Both TT and TL types are limited to 99mph ( Q rated).

The good news is that Conti state that you can use TL tyres, with a tube, on a TT rim.

jarax · Apr 28, 2008

Consolidated: tyre options and questions

First 200 km on F 800 GS done, mainly onroad, but some dirt roads too. Found default tyres (batlemax) not suitable for offroad use. Some ideas what tyre is good for 30/70 onroad/offroad? I used to have BMW 1150 on TKC80, because they could handle weight of a mammut, but F800GS is lighter... does anyone knows better option?

In Czech republic, theese are very popular, but not in suitable size for F800: http://www.mitas.cz/index.php?stranka=4&scid=52 especially E-09 Dakar type.

Why have BMW chosen 150/70 size? More options in 140/80 size!

Jarax
BMW F 800 GS

Cole · Apr 29, 2008

Metzeler Karoos come in the 17 inch 150/70 size and are considerably more off road biased than the TKC.

The Karoo is on the Left ... The tyre on the right is pretty similar to the TKC (but cheaper) ... its the Karoo T ( I believe the "T" is the "Traveller" version ... its designed to be ok on the highways ... similar to the TKC.

But if you really ride 70% of your time off road, then you really need to go for the full Karoo.

The narrow TKC front in 21 90/90 is not actually that knobbly at all. For some reason the TKC tread pattern looks a lot better in the 19 110/80 size that the big GSes have than on the F800GS size.

chrisjk · Apr 29, 2008

I am pretty happy with the TKC80s both on and off-road. I have never used the Karoos and can't compare.

BM_donator · May 18, 2008

chrisjk said:
I want to put some off-road tyres (road -legal but biased in favour of the dirt) on my 800.

A couple of problems here.

1. I have never changed a motorcycle tyre in my life

2. It would appear that to get the front wheel off, I need a sort of paddock stand for the front end - at least that's what the manual speaks of. I am a bit nervous about simply jacking it up using the centre stand for stability because the centre stand does not hold the bike very firmly. I nearly dropped it when cleaning the bike by rotating the front wheel while cleaning it ( to get at more dirty sections). There was enough friction between tyre and ground caused by the the considerable front biased weight to push the bike back and off the centre stand. I was left holding the bike upright while squatting at the front just holding the wheel. Fortunately, someone was close at hand to catch it.

3. I shall need tyre levers and a bead breaker I guess, but anything else?

So, Any advice on how to do it myself by the weekend? The dealer can get the tyres in time but can't slot them into the shop for fitting in time.

I start my first long trip next weekend on my 800GS - the first trip on a bike with tubed tyres. 2500 miles and a fair chance of seeing a puncture.

Tubeless repairs were easy with assorted kits and aerosols available to get you to a garage.
I think I may now have to remove the wheel and tyre to repair a puncture??

Can anyone recommend what kit to take - e.g. what tools are needed to remove the respective wheels and if there are any "tubed" tricks to keep things simple (like not having to remove the bloody wheel!).

All help gratefully received :bow

TERRY RYAN said:
Have you tried Ultraseal ??
found this
if not you need to carry spare tube and tyre levers and a foot pump

Ultraseal will seal wounds in both tube and tubeless tyres as long as there is rubber recovery and it is not a dangerous wound.

A tube is not one of man's most ingenious inventions, and is very unreliable. The tube is basically made of rubber and synthetics. The wall thickness of a tube is not uniform and rubber content is very critical in terms of elasticity and rubber recovery. A tube that does not contain a sufficient amount of natural rubber cannot recover (close up) after sustaining a wound. It is critical that there be rubber recovery to assure a positive secure clot.

by installing Ultraseal into a tube, the problem of punctures can be reduced. The seal in a tube is not permanent. Tubes squirm inside a tyre at high speed if the puncturing object is left in the tyre and tube, it may rip the tube. Then even Ultraseal may not able to help. We recommend that nails be removed on a routine basis and the tyres air pressure be maintained at maximum PSI to reduce the squirming.

When a tube is punctured, the size of the wound in the tube may be much larger than the actual puncturing object; also tubes are very susceptible to ripping.

jarax said:
You need:
- tyre pump for the motorcycle traveller
- 2 - 3 durable tyre levers (depends how experienced you are)
- "motorcycle” tyre puncture repair kit
- to have work gloves is not bad idea

Train at home

Tim Cullis said:
Ideally you'll need a centre stand, otherwise you'll need to support the bike somehow or lie it down on its side whilst you get the wheel out. Workshop gloves are a good idea to handle the messy chain. And as Jarax writes, it's better to practise this at home before you leave. I would add a spare tube to Jarax's list as there's no guarantee you'll be able to fix the one that's fitted, or you'll pinch it when you put it back in.

There are many pros and cons re the 800 vs 650 choice, but for me the ultimate reason for going for the 650 was that I wasn't prepared to put up with the hassle (and risk) of tubed tyres. It's one thing if you're by the side of the road in the UK with BMW Emergency Services just a phone call away, but I'm often riding solo on Moroccan pistes and I don't really want to take a spare inner tube, tyre levers, inflators and so forth every time I go out (in addition to the first aid kit, tools, water, food and camera). And a spare heavy duty inner tube is extremely bulky.

The only time in recent years that I've had a flat, I went for a short ride on my XR400R (and ended up riding further and further from base) and then had to ride back with a flat tyre, 40km on piste and another 40km on road.

Tim

twisticles said:
If Ultraseal doesn't work for you, I think you might need a wheel change thingy:

Available from Nippy.

EggChaser · May 28, 2008

chrisjk said:
Wossat then? I'm dead ignorant about tyre changing and repairs but my crystal ball has me alone with my F800GS, in a deserted landscape, struggling to:-

a) get the wheel off
b) get the tyre off
c) get the tube out
.
.
. you get the picture!

So I am interested in anything that promises to make this process any easier.

The wheel change thingy is in effect a 22mm allen key so that you can then get a socket and torque wrench or a large 22mm ring spanner over the end in order to undo the axle. It is wise to carry the thingy even if you don't carry the wrench as any mechanic will probably have a torque wrench and sockets - but not a 22mm hex key :blast

HMR · May 29, 2008

Here are the tools I carry with me (stored under the saddle) for emergency tire repairs:

1. Combined tire tool and 24 mm tool for rear axis. Aluminium light weight.

2. Combined tire tool and 17 mm tool for front axis. Steel. Home made.

3. Combined tire tool and bits handle including bits for ABS sensor, front axis and brake calipher.

4. Tube repair kit and pieces of a PET bottle to protect the rim from the tire tools.

5. 12V air pump.

Total weight of theese tools is 760 grams. The pump alone is 400 grams. A hand pump would be lighter.

chrisjk · May 29, 2008

twisticles said:
Try your local adult education centre, see if they do a motorcycle maintenance class?

I signed up at Hackney Community College a couple of years ago, the course cost me £100 and the first oil change I did myself saved me almost that much. You do some theory of engines, then get to "know your bike" by doing basic maintenance tasks with knowledgable people on hand.

Of course, with a new 8GS I'm more inclined to take it to a dealer until the warranty runs out, but I did learn how to change tyres at least (and there are as many 'knacks' as there are people who change tyres!).

Not sure I would be confident bleeding an ABS system, and I don't think I'll be cleaning out carbs now...

I helped celticpixie with his tyre change practice too on the same course, he's riding to Oz now, www.panomoto.com

That is a good idea and would certainly help with the basics I guess and I do need help with those for sure. I wonder how useful such a course would be when it comes to specific bikes and modern bikes where so much seems to need a dealer's computer etc to deal with it?

Tim Cullis · Jun 12, 2008

I have ridden on TKC80s for the last three years. When I ordered the F650GS I was quoted £245.14 to supply and fit TKC80s, with no allowance for the tyres I didn't want. When I made noises about cancelling the tyres the dealer agreed to charge 'only' £69 for the tyre change, so I went ahead. This turned out to be £69 plus VAT or £81.08.

I only pay £160-£170 for a new set of TKC80s plus fitting, so if I was faced with this decision again I would take the bike on the standard tyres then arrange for TKC80s elsewhere.

Tim

sijohnston said:
So estimate 5000 miles (do tkc back tyres normally last this long?)

Depends upon the types of roads and your style of riding. Most people reckon 6000 for touring, 5000 for harder riding for TKC rears. I did 9000 on my last set riding to Senegal and back; the fast ride back through Spain and France meant they were practically illegal when I got back to the UK.

Tim

twisticles · Jul 18, 2008

Well I want to get more dirty on my 800, and last weekend in the mud in Derbyshire made my mind up for me, the battlewings have got to go.

They were great over the stones and bumps and gravel, even the wet bits. But on clay? Slide city!

So I asked my local dealer about TKC80s, who said "they are not available yet". Weird I thought, they were on the 800GS I rode at the off-road school.

F800GS model not selectable on the Conti website. So I emailed them and they said to go for:

Rear: 150/70 Q17
Front: 90/90 T21

The reason my dealer thought they were unavailable is because BMW recommend a 90/90 Q21 for the front, which apparently Conti don't make yet.

Does this match your TCK80 buying experience? Thought it might help someone encountering the same probs as me.

chrisjk · Jul 18, 2008

I have had TKC 80's on the bike for the last 1200 miles or so - front is 90/90 rated to 112mph according to the sidewall. They work very well in the dirt and also on the road although at 80 mph plus on the road the front starts to squirm a bit. It doesn't seem dangerous and a bit of extra throttle quietens it down.

They corner well too.

Some wear on the centre blocks is already evident and I really don't know how long they will last but I'm very happy with them.

ZZ10 · Aug 4, 2008

Battlewing tyre

I made some touring in rain for the first time, I have the Bridgestone Battlewing(or what model name that comes from factory) on, I noticed bad grip in rain, anyone else noticed the same? I had Avon at first on my Tenere and they were bad in rain, I changed to Dunlop Trailmax(D607) on Super tenere and they were much better in rain, any other tyres good in rain?

fishburger · Aug 5, 2008

I have done 16000km on my f800gs now. The bike came with Michelin Anakee, I have had this tyres on diffrent bikes, 1200gs\650gs. One of the best tyers in the rain, last saturday I did 500km in heavy rain, passing all the cars on the road, highly recomended for rain driving at 90-100km\h no problems. And on the same trip I did 100km on construction roads\gravel\stones in the mountains at 1500m altitude,no problems at all.

I have used Anakee and Tourance on all my bikes for the last 10 years, they are both very good, the Tourance will probably give you 1000-2000km longer life, which is a good trade off for a (slightly better)rain tyre. I am very happy with the life of my Anakee 16000 km is the longest distance I ever got out of a tyre.

TERRY RYAN said:
First time I have used Michelin Anakee, I find the tyre to be all over the place in the wet. Back end has stepped out a few times in the wet and front has moved as well. On the white lines its a nightmare. I am looking to change back to either Tourances or Tkc

There is not a tyer in the world which in wet condition is good on the white lines or pedestrian crossing. Whatever tyre you put on, the white stuff will put you down if you brake \ride hard crossing the white paints or yellow or what ever colours they use around the world to mark up the roads. That must be basic knowledge when driving in the rain.

TERRY RYAN said:
yes you right maybe I did not explain myself correct. In my opinion the Michelin Anakee are shit

genon · Aug 5, 2008

After using avon distanzia's on everything from Africa Twins, Transalps and F650gs singles I've found the pre-fitted Battlewing's superb in the dry and wet both. They seem very good imho. No compliants here.

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