I must say, it wasn't pretty.accck!er; no. that makes my teeth itch.
that's abuse with no reason.
I've smelt a burning clutch before, but I've never seen one smoke like that before or since.
Adv Training Police Style - What's In It?
- Thread starter Kahuna
- Start date
I've smelt a burning clutch before, but I've never seen one smoke like that before or since.
Looks like what Rachel was doing to your shiny new FJR today
Least she didn't drop it
accck!
er;
no.
that makes my teeth itch.
that's abuse with no reason.
My oppinion too.
From what I've seen the Police control by force not finesse.
We've had occasions when they have borrowed our facility for some of their courses (usually slow maneuvering cone work). Watching the riders do simple slalom exercises is painful. I would be giving my trainees an ear full if they used the bike in such a merciless way, never mind the risk they are creating for themselves.
Too much throttle, too much clutch plus too much back brake = a very high risk of pain and damage.
My thoughts are that the course is based on the training given in the sixties, when the bikes were much more fragile than they are now and heavy use of the clutch would result in it's premature demise.
Working on the theory that brake shoes were easier and cheaper to replace, the slow maneuvering was controlled using the rear brake 'therefore preserving the expensive/difficult to replace clutch'.
Modern day bikes have better more durable clutches that can be used much more effectively for much better, safer and easier control, with less likelihood of significant damage (if used correctly).
IMO, All the slow moving exercises they do can be done more easily and effectively 'as well as safely' by simple gentle use and finesse of the clutch (The obvious use of balance is of course included)
So Taff;
If you want to master your bike at slow speed, first master pulling away with just the clutch (no use of the throttle or the brakes). When you can do the length of the car park in a straight line at sub walking pace, then you can try doing corners. Remember just a gently slipping clutch (no revs). The only brake you want is the rear, very gently 'but firmly' to a positive stop.
When your happy with that take your right hand of the bars and do it again.
Val.
watch the last bit of the Tour of Britain 2007 slideshow at http://www.petegodingphotography.com/ and spot the police control problems. I'll not mention how many bikes they crashed in total 
I did that course on my GS a few weeks ago. Don't anyone think it's easy - you have to be on full lock nearly all the time!
Greg
phooey
Registered user
Did my 'standard solo' with the Met C.'83 .
The first couple of days IIRC were on the school roads doing slow control round the cones. Does anyone else remember the plank in the cone section you had to ride up without falling off - or did I dream it ?
Did my course in January - it WAS cold and the kit was junk. Often didn't get out before 10am as the fog had to clear or the ice had to melt. We also had snow, high winds and on one day driving rain. We did have some clear sunny ones too.
The upside of this was you had to be smoooooth everywhere. Its a useful skill.
Couple of bike cops have mentioned engine sympathy - sadly there are one or two 'characters' in the job who lack any. Would you start a bike from cold and rev it to the stop for 10 seconds then turn it off ? I didn't ask him why...or deliberately cause backfires for fun ( you can blow the exhaust box on a range rover if persistent enough ) .
The majority I hasten to add were professionals and shunned the clowns.
The first couple of days IIRC were on the school roads doing slow control round the cones. Does anyone else remember the plank in the cone section you had to ride up without falling off - or did I dream it ?
Did my course in January - it WAS cold and the kit was junk. Often didn't get out before 10am as the fog had to clear or the ice had to melt. We also had snow, high winds and on one day driving rain. We did have some clear sunny ones too
. The upside of this was you had to be smoooooth everywhere. Its a useful skill.
Couple of bike cops have mentioned engine sympathy - sadly there are one or two 'characters' in the job who lack any. Would you start a bike from cold and rev it to the stop for 10 seconds then turn it off ? I didn't ask him why...or deliberately cause backfires for fun ( you can blow the exhaust box on a range rover if persistent enough
) . The majority I hasten to add were professionals and shunned the clowns.
rudiemoto
Registered user
Mark Thompson (Met Police)
you need help.or a scooter
you need help.or a scooter
Must admit the times I've come across police motorcyclist's i've not been impressed admitadly i come from a very experienced motorcycling background and then with the Tour of Britain passing the village a few months ago two police bikes managed to run into each other. They are better than average riders but that's all alot of them are doing the job by the numbers rather than being a talented motorcyclist.
Although you wouldn't be able to tell from that photo, the strange thing was that he only got something like 3 penalty points on the whole course.Mark Thompson (Met Police) you need help.or a scooter
dunnie
Registered user
Burning clutch
What we need to remember is that many Met Traffic Motorcyclists are just a class three standard and dont get advanced training unless they move into a specialised unit like surveillance or special escort group, then they will attend the advanced course and possibly acheive an advanced ticket {class 1 or 2}.
Also being stuck in the town with their eyes in the back of some taxi or bus they obviously are used to the smell of burning clutch.
I have ridden with some met guys and lets just say they dont cut the mustard out on the open road, theyre in your mirror for a mile then its pull over and wait before they get lost...................
And yes, some people have now natural skill in riding or talking or anything really, its either on or its off.
What we need to remember is that many Met Traffic Motorcyclists are just a class three standard and dont get advanced training unless they move into a specialised unit like surveillance or special escort group, then they will attend the advanced course and possibly acheive an advanced ticket {class 1 or 2}.
Also being stuck in the town with their eyes in the back of some taxi or bus they obviously are used to the smell of burning clutch.
I have ridden with some met guys and lets just say they dont cut the mustard out on the open road, theyre in your mirror for a mile then its pull over and wait before they get lost...................
And yes, some people have now natural skill in riding or talking or anything really, its either on or its off.
striker
Guest
Phooey. No you didn't dream about the plank. It was included as was the slalom cones and back to back figures of eight with opposite exits. For fun it would also be timed to give a bit of a competition feel. If I remember you could only afford to lose 10 marks or its goodbye class 1. No matter how well you rode on road.
I did the standard car then standard bike, advanced car then advanced bike. All class 1. Then Special escort followed by the Close protection stuff. Main thing in doing the cones is to relax. If you get uptight then it won't be long before you sit on your ass.
Time and practise brings the finese but I am a great believer in good bikers having a natural skill that just needs developed.
I did the standard car then standard bike, advanced car then advanced bike. All class 1. Then Special escort followed by the Close protection stuff. Main thing in doing the cones is to relax. If you get uptight then it won't be long before you sit on your ass.
Time and practise brings the finese but I am a great believer in good bikers having a natural skill that just needs developed.
I have been riding for only 3 - 4 months but from day 1 my instructor 'the celt' told me that lots of kids can ride at speed in straight lines but to ride in control in slow speed is what learning to ride is all about the speed comes later. My 650 GS has idle speed of 1500 rpm so at walking pace and less control, I had to learn to work with brake not throttle and brake, at times I thought the bike was running away on its own. This has been the best training I could have got because I live in Dublin where the traffic is chronic (I'm being polite) I passed my test last Monday having failed it 4 weeks earlier, due to real control problems on the road. My instructor spoke about many young riders passing tests because they can control their bikes and I had to show just that. The weekend before my test I spent 12 hours over 3 days working on riding real traffic areas which the test routes use and require serious slow bike control.
Both myself and my partner, who has been riding for 20+ years, has noticed huge improvement in my riding skills on faster twisting roads in Wicklow since I have gained the confidence to put my slower skills into real practice and this is only good news for me as they are the types of roads I really wish to master. Many thanks to 'the celt' for his impeccable tuition.
Geraldine
Both myself and my partner, who has been riding for 20+ years, has noticed huge improvement in my riding skills on faster twisting roads in Wicklow since I have gained the confidence to put my slower skills into real practice and this is only good news for me as they are the types of roads I really wish to master. Many thanks to 'the celt' for his impeccable tuition.
Geraldine
I've done a 1 day riding assesment at Hendon and went on to do the police 'standard' 3 week course with North Wales police. It was chalk and cheese with totally different emphasis placed on different skills. The first week of the met course you don't even leave Hendon, with the emphasis on slow speed, in Wales we started on Triumph bonneviles but after an hour we were on the wide open roads of north wales, progressing (?) to Pans at the end of the first week.
TBH I think it would be very difficult to replicate either styles of the course in a civilian setting. The training bikes at Hendon are constantly being dropped, burning out clutches and generally being abused, not sure a training company would find that financially viable (and I wouldn't like to practice lock to lock turns on my loaded tourer) and out on the open roads in national speed limit areas your licence wouldn't last long riding at the speeds you are expected to maintain.
I spend most of my days 'in the saddle' and consider myself to be an above average rider with 30 years of experience but I'm no riding god and would probably fade into the distance behind many a 'less experienced' rider and there's the rub, because there is much more to being a good rider than the ability to ride like a racer on the road. The Police course is all about making progress but only when it is safe to do so, not that easy on our traffic choked roads. And as a paramedic I see all to often the consequences of people who get it wrong!
Ride safe out there!
TBH I think it would be very difficult to replicate either styles of the course in a civilian setting. The training bikes at Hendon are constantly being dropped, burning out clutches and generally being abused, not sure a training company would find that financially viable (and I wouldn't like to practice lock to lock turns on my loaded tourer) and out on the open roads in national speed limit areas your licence wouldn't last long riding at the speeds you are expected to maintain.
I spend most of my days 'in the saddle' and consider myself to be an above average rider with 30 years of experience but I'm no riding god and would probably fade into the distance behind many a 'less experienced' rider and there's the rub, because there is much more to being a good rider than the ability to ride like a racer on the road. The Police course is all about making progress but only when it is safe to do so, not that easy on our traffic choked roads. And as a paramedic I see all to often the consequences of people who get it wrong!
Ride safe out there!
i started riding with enthusiasm, passion and sheer bloodymindedness.
i dont think i had one ounce of Natural Skill or any Talent.
- and for the first two years i was crapping myself / but determined to figure it out somehow!
personally;
i know it's not the Bike.
to a large degree it's not the Rider. (though obviously i'm not talking Rossi style track riding)
i believe it's the Training.
30 something years after starting to ride... i think i'm getting the hang of it now - anyone thats had to lead or follow me could answer that though.
but i'll not stop trying to improve - it's fun (if ya do it right
) anyhow 
.
~~
Og,
RoSPA DIP and a lot of other boring stuff
i dont think i had one ounce of Natural Skill or any Talent.
- and for the first two years i was crapping myself / but determined to figure it out somehow!
personally;
i know it's not the Bike.
to a large degree it's not the Rider. (though obviously i'm not talking Rossi style track riding)
i believe it's the Training.
30 something years after starting to ride... i think i'm getting the hang of it now
- anyone thats had to lead or follow me could answer that though.but i'll not stop trying to improve - it's fun (if ya do it right
) anyhow .~~
Og,
RoSPA DIP and a lot of other boring stuff
Ali
Guest
I must say this thread has made for some very interesting 1am reading, especially since I'm about to apply for a job in the police!
There are no "recruitment drives" or whatever they are called around my area, so I'm putting in for a job as a "Command Centre Controller". I'm hoping it might give me a bit of insight into what I might be getting myself in for down the line as I have the intention of becoming a police officer, with a view to joining traffic when I can.
Ive been working as a web developer since uni (got a degree in it 2 and a bit years ago, but been doing it for 6/7 years before that). Im only 24 and sodding bored of it!
Cars and bikes have always been a passion of mine, I love driving (I had a job unloading BMWs from cargo ships for pocket money when I was at uni and loved every minute cos I as driving), and gonna be getting a bike licence shortly. Hope I have the same passion about that since I'll be splashing out on a new 800GS, providing I like it ofcoure
Anyhoo, great to read this all been looking for this sort of thing for weeks on the web!!
There are no "recruitment drives" or whatever they are called around my area, so I'm putting in for a job as a "Command Centre Controller". I'm hoping it might give me a bit of insight into what I might be getting myself in for down the line as I have the intention of becoming a police officer, with a view to joining traffic when I can.
Ive been working as a web developer since uni (got a degree in it 2 and a bit years ago, but been doing it for 6/7 years before that). Im only 24 and sodding bored of it!
Cars and bikes have always been a passion of mine, I love driving (I had a job unloading BMWs from cargo ships for pocket money when I was at uni and loved every minute cos I as driving), and gonna be getting a bike licence shortly. Hope I have the same passion about that since I'll be splashing out on a new 800GS, providing I like it ofcoure
Anyhoo, great to read this all
been looking for this sort of thing for weeks on the web!!davem1
Registered user
I've done a bit of advanced rider training and feel pretty good about the skill level I've been able to achieve (though my caveat is, it's all about concentration - so only as good as my attention on the day!).
I'm probably not alone when I say I very much admire Police riding skills - where Police riders make things look effortless and seem to have complete Mastery of their machine (though not necessarily having any admiration for some of the personalities who get paid to do that job...)
Talking with my Adv Instructor who is also an ex Class1 Police Motorcycle patrol man, I was wondering what the current 3 week Police Motorcycle training consists of? His was the old style training (where they went bombing around airfields and standing on the seat etc.) and he seems to think it's really just more of the same as the typical Adv training - but polishing the standard with intense 'pursuit observation'.
I suspect it's a lot to do with 'slow speed riding' that generates such confidence in their own abilities, together with no-constraint hi-speed riding too.
Does anyone know what the 3 week training actually consists of these days, specifically around slow and normal (not emergency) road riding?
I did mine a long time ago in Ireland and I have to say it was the best 4 weeks of my life. I really enjoyed it. first week mostly class stuff a bit of practical. then to the open roads, was absolutely class. real in ur face instruction, if u made a mistake u were balled out of it ... just so u wouldnt do it again. that said if u were failing u wud get more attention. did a bit of off road as well and a load of slow manouvers. I loved the slow stuff as I just have the knack for it. I still practice it today 21 years later. Its the best course you could ever do and it improves riding skills like no other course. if you are of a sensative nature then its not for you because you will get f**** from a height if u f*** up. I remember driving into the back of d instructors bike at low speed when he jammed on in a car park... such a bollikin as i got but hey it was an experiance that i wish every guy or girl on a bike shud have. Ive done refreshers since and loved them all. I do try and pass on what I know to other riders, but then again im not qualified so its just advice
davem1
Registered user
get an x challenge much more fun............ rode both, the 800 just isnt as good as it shud be...... then again i came off a k1200 .........I must say this thread has made for some very interesting 1am reading, especially since I'm about to apply for a job in the police!
There are no "recruitment drives" or whatever they are called around my area, so I'm putting in for a job as a "Command Centre Controller". I'm hoping it might give me a bit of insight into what I might be getting myself in for down the line as I have the intention of becoming a police officer, with a view to joining traffic when I can.
Ive been working as a web developer since uni (got a degree in it 2 and a bit years ago, but been doing it for 6/7 years before that). Im only 24 and sodding bored of it!
Cars and bikes have always been a passion of mine, I love driving (I had a job unloading BMWs from cargo ships for pocket money when I was at uni and loved every minute cos I as driving), and gonna be getting a bike licence shortly. Hope I have the same passion about that since I'll be splashing out on a new 800GS, providing I like it ofcoure
Anyhoo, great to read this all
in saying that the x challenge is a real hoot
davem1
Registered user
Val
I agree totally.. i was able to do it with an old vt500.......... no high revs and certainly no clutch burning. cant see whats different today,, u shouldnt need to rev the guts out of a machine while standing on the back brake... in our day you would pack ur bag and be sent home!!
phooey
Registered user
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