Poland in the footsteps of the 51st Highland Division

I'm sketching out a four week trip to Poland for late May/early June 2009 and would appreciate suggestions on 'must see' places to visit. I had a look at the Michelin maps (set of four) for Poland and was disappointed to find they don't have the green edges for scenic routes. Normally I would try to incorporate many of these, so I'm running blind.

My interests are general history, WWII history and natural beauty but I guess I should take in some towns as well. I'm planning to take a tent for fair weather camping so campsite recommendations plus details of cheapish accommodation are also welcome.

At the moment I'm thinking of visiting the 21-24 May German HU meeting near Worms, then travelling via the Harz Mountains, Colditz, Dresden, Prague and Auschwitz/Birkenau to Krakow.

From there north via Kazimierz Dolny towards Warsaw. Is Warsaw worth visiting? Then maybe visit Hitler's Wolf's Lair at Rastenburg. Then heading west towards Gdansk.

My wife's father was in the Gordon Highlanders and was a POW from 1940-1945 in Stalag XXA in Thorn (modern day Torun), so obviously I will spend some time in the area. You can find a reference to my father-in-law on this page by searching for 'philips'. He's recorded as Hurbert, though his name is actually Hubert.

As the Russians approached in Jan 1945 he was marched along with many other POWs through blizzards 450 miles to Stalag XIB/357 at Fallingbostel on the Lunenberg Heath, so this will determine my return route. Ideally I would like to cross the Polish/German border at Swinoujscie/Korswandt which was the route Hubert took. Officially this is a foot-only crossing. Could I wheel the bike over? I've tried looking for a contact address for the Korswandt Rathaus to ask or advice, but no joy.

Another place to visit, maybe on the outward journey is the Hackenburg Fortress in the Maginot Line which the 51st Highland were defending when the Germans kicked off the May 1940 offensive. Some years ago we took Hubert to St Valéry en Caux and found the actual orchard where he was captured by Rommel's troops a couple of weeks after Dunkirk.

So... suggestions welcome.

Tim

the german polish crossing is open to traffic at Ahlbeck on the Island of Usedom then you use the ferry to cross the river. It's a smart area loads to see and do plus the drive on the Polish side was good. I might still have the gps for the B+B's we used if your interested?

in Usedom and Poland

There's allsorts of stuff the Hitler Hotel (Now deserted) near Ruegen is interesting, there's V2 flying and test sites near Peenemuende and on the polish side bunkers and wierd stuff in the woods.... very nice the roads are alright some cobbled and slippery with sand blown in from the beaches.

There's plenty of camping on the island near Crab Lake (Krabben See) on the polish side it's less but it changes my german mate runs 4x4 safari tours in that area

Tim Cullis said:

... Is Warsaw worth visiting? Then maybe visit Hitler's Wolf's Lair at Rastenburg. Then heading west towards Gdansk.

Click to expand...

I reckon it's well worth a visit. Before I went to Poland in 2006 a number of people warned me about going to Warsaw - it was described as "a dump" "not very nice" "terrible place" etc, surprisingly some of the people that warned me about it were Polish themselves. So you can imagine my surprise when I turned up and found it to be lovely - at least the city centre is anyway. After I get home, I'll try and post some photos so you can draw your own conclusions. It is undoubtedly the poorer relation to Krakow, but TBH it's not really fair because nearly everywhere comes second best in a direct comaprison with Krakow.

Apparently after the Warsaw uprising Hitler was so incensed that he ordered the city to be flattened. In fact it was so badly damaged, that in some speech Hitler said that Warsaw now nothing more than a "name on a map" which it may well have been at the time. There is a famous mound near the city centre (again I'll try and dig out some photos of it) where the height of the mound represents the height of the Warsaw rubble after the onslaught. The bodies inside were left as a reminder and a memorial garden built around it. Bearing in mind that Warsaw was under communist control after the war, they did a cracking job of rebuilding the place in the old style.

Between the Wolfs Lair and Gdansk, you will find Stutthof camp. It's a concentration camp (not an extermination camp) and I found it fascinating. I had planned on spending an hour or so there, but it was so well preserved I ended up staying for the whole afternoon. If you're interested, I can get you the co-ordinates and some photos.

Thanks for the responses, guys.

Lo-IQ: Although almost all the references on the Internet refer to the border with Swinoujscie being foot-only, I found a photo on Google Earth that implies it's now open for cars, so fingers crossed.

I've added Peenemünde to the potential route; I was already thinking of visiting the Nazi Butlins-style holiday camp at Prora which I now realise is what you meant by 'Hitler Hotel'.

Taff: I've now located Stuthof (nowadays Sztutowo) and added it to the route. I now have the accurate locations--checked in Gogle Earth--for all six of the extermination camps, eight of the concentration camps and ten POW camps.

I'm not planning to visit all of these, just a few that are near to the ideal route.

Tim

it was closed for ages been open since late 2007 I've been over it 4 times with a car from google earth you can see the ferry port it's a bottle neck and on the Polish side there's always speed traps, there are a number of other crossings which are still shut the next one further in land is Secczin that's right on the motorway

the coastal road is goo all the way to Hel opposite gdansk

loads of woods narrow lanes

Hitler Hotel hehehehehe is my fault...

Tim

I have the waypoint at home for Stalag Luft III - scene of the Great Escape - if that is of interest.

Greg

Thanks Greg, the waypoints I have are

Stalag (Stammlager): I-A Stablack, I-B Hohenstein, Luft I Barth, Luft III Sagan, Luft IV Gross Tychow, Luft VI Heydekrug, VII-A Moosburg, VIII-C Sagan, XI-B/357 Fallingbostel, XX-A Thorn, XX-B Marienburg

Oflag (Offizierslager): IV-C Colditz

KL (Konzentrationslager): Auschwitz, Bergen-Belsen, Buchenwald, Dachau, Ravensbruck, Sachsenhausen, Stutthof, Theresienstadt

TL (Todeslager): Belzec, Birkenau, Chelmno, Majdanek, Sobibor, Treblinka

Given the lager names above I briefly thought of calling it the 'Lager Tour of Poland' but realised it would poor taste.

Tim

Tim Cullis said:

... I've added Peenemünde to the potential route

Click to expand...

Unless someone can correct me, I don't think there's much to see at Peenemunde apart from some sand dunes. I had it on my list to visit when I went on a different trip to Berlin, but after doing some research into it I knocked it on the head, as it looked like quite a big detour from Berlin for very little reward.

After Peenemunde was repeatedly bombed, I understand the whole operation was moved to the underground tunnels at Mittelbau Dora near the Harz Mountains. Don't know if you have time, but that really is well worth a visit if you do.

Peenemünde: http://greyfalcon.us/Peenemünde.htm

It's a tiny detour, so might as well check it out, though reports state everything was destroyed by the Soviets.

Tim

test sites are still there and a few bits and pieces, there's some barbed wire to stop you getting access from the road so just walk up the beach

Tank driving school is there, they'll let you have a go in a T34 and some other old crap, you can also fly over the island in an old russian plane which looks like it made from crinkly tin...

we stayed here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usedom

plus I wrote up a trip I made to that area called "I'm heading east" in 2007 very random funny in places

Places to Visit

Krakow

Wawel castle
Some fantastic churches/ cathedrals in the centre.
Schindlers factory - in the Jewish section south of Krakow (across the river).
Salt mines - great carvings.

Wroclaw
One of the most picturesque cities in Southern Poland - connected by 100 bridges.

Malbork Castle (northern poland) - site of the Teutonic Knights.

I will try and think of some others

Great stuff. I've now read the 'Heading East' report.

Schindler's Factory and Wawel Castle are now on the list along with the Wieliczka salt mine.

I already had Malbork which is practically next to Stalag XX-B (Marienburg).

Tim

between Gdansk and the Wolf's Lair is a couple of really important churches one really small I missed it.... the other much bigger but it was raining and i was loosing the will to live at this point... the Mausurian lakes near wolf Lair are brilliant loads of space, dirt tracks between little villages, little camp sites or auberge style pensions with nobody around... brilliant appart from all the rain...

I then headed up towards Elk Swuwaki? and Kaunas in Lithuania the landscape changed it sort of open up and there where even less people.

russia is a stones throw away go on you know it where you want to go... I can give the GPS coordinates unless I've deleted them for a hotel that's not built, DOH! so I stayed in the resturant next door to the biggest brothel in the town of the damned.... Babushka the Inn keeper was surprised I wanted a room for the whole night...£9 very reasonable need less to say I slept on the sheets cos the whole place was abit minging...

Tim

I spent 6 months out working in Poland (Krakow) if you want any advice gimme a shout.

Salt mines are good will use an evening up.

Auchwith - I've been here 4 times (kept taking mates there when they dropped in on me). You will need at least a full day 9 - 5 jobbie. Please do not underestimate the amount there is to see there (the two sites are a few miles apart). You are told you need a tour guide at the entrance to Auchwitz 1 - well worth it however also worth going around again afterwards on your own as the tour is pretty fast paced and there is a lot more to the camp than you are shown.

Schindlers factory has just re-opened after having millions spent on a refurb. Its near a Tesco Superstore which is open 24/7 good for grabbing anything you may need!

Many hotels I've been in if you want opinions on them. Failing that my best mates finance lives in Krakow. I can ask her to scope out some bike friendly hotels for you if you give me an idea of budget and location that you are looking for.

Also worth a look is the dragon by the river (it breathes fire if you stick a coin in). The church tower in the centre square - where a trumpeter plays each night. He was killed as he played so the song always ends early each night.

There is a decent shopping place by the train station - not usually my thing but there is a) a very good car park there (guarded very well) b) a really good food floor with numerous very good places

Other places I'd go to is Zakopane, really chilled town and only a few hours away. Like the alps and some very good riding roads on the way there.

Sockpuppet

Ooo. Almost forgot. All museums in Poland are closed on a monday. Apart from the museum of the warsaw up rising which is open on a monday and closed on a tuesday.

Don't ask how I know.

Unfortunately I don't have the time to do Russia.

I was sent a reference to some unspoilt German WWII fortifications at Mamerki, about 30km east of the Wolf's Lair, see http://www.mamerki.com/mapa.html

Tim

Hi
I can understand people which don't like Warszawa , there are many reasons, first is to big , second to croudy, third to expensive. When you live in small town like Kraków and you have to go to Warszawa you get ill. If you like cities you can see this but also Gdańsk , Wrocław and many others. I will recomend also Kazimierz Dolny , Sandomierz, Lublin. Scenic roads in Bieszczady and in Tatra mountains and many yellow roads nice to travel with bike.
If you have questions ask.

Regards Marek

Something to listen to on the way

Enjoy

Tim, my Dad was sent to XIB/357 two weeks before they got let out
He and four others ( all with dodgy names like Jack Diamond ( honest ) Plus
the comic off the telly ( owwwww! misses ) no he was not a private soldier at all, ) they had all been held in a local Police stn whilst the SS did checks on them
Lucky for all of them the SS thought they were lost....My Dad was supposed
to be in the Royal Welsh, i do know he had vast experience of explosives and other weapons. My Mum had post cards from him from all over the world, when all the time the MOD were saying he was in POW camp in Germany
I am still doing the research, just getting and putting together bits here and there. And i always thought i new my old dad.... I would love o come on this trip Tim...If only.
Lyn.

Auschwitz is a must, went in the autumn - You must do both 1 & 2 as the most haunting is the second camp. 1km of rail track and some of the original wooden blocks left. Re watch Shindlers List before going. Very emotional.

Krakow old town / central square is fantastic for people watching, beer and restaurants. Largest town square in Europe, bit touristy but still fantastic. Stay central and walk into town or tram if a bit further out.