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Thread: 04/05 Flange defect, take note

  1. #17
    michnus
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    Pukmeister, the dic is still OEM and has never been removed, only the pads have been changed. BMW will not replace as a goodwill gesture, I tried in SA.

    This is not the kind of thing that must fail, on a bike like this, funny thing is why is it not more common? Even my 06 1200GS flange looks exactly the same.

  2. #18
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    Just a thought but has anyone had a seized or semi-seized rear caliper at some point? This could induced repeated uneven side loading on the disc and hence eventually propogate cracks from the disc mounting holes. The surface cracking might not be apparent at the time but once the process has started.....

  3. #19
    michnus
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinL View Post
    Just a thought but has anyone had a seized or semi-seized rear caliper at some point? This could induced repeated uneven side loading on the disc and hence eventually propogate cracks from the disc mounting holes. The surface cracking might not be apparent at the time but once the process has started.....
    100% not on mine.

    Pukmeister, if you heat the flange it will come of quite easy.

  4. #20
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    thanks Michnus, I had hoped it would, just about to load the RepRom and take a look at whats involved but should be simple and logical enough.
    ADAM


    2008 R1200GSA
    2011 Yamaha Tmax

  5. #21
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    Having read this thread I went out to check the "flange" on my 2004 12GS... thankfully no probs... but in the process I noticed that the rear pads are completely worn..... can anyone recommend a replacement set. Thanks in advance

  6. #22
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    You can pay top dollar for genuine BMW badged (Brembo) ones at your dealer, or buy aftermarket ones such as the EBC brand, Ferodo etc from places like Nippy Normans or a local brake suppliers.

    Be aware that if your bike is under warranty you will invalidate it by using non-BMW items.

    They take about 20 minutes to strip out, clean the caliper and fit new pads, hardly rocket science. Be sure to check the caliper slides freely once the pads are out.

    Or you could pay your dealer to do the job.
    ADAM


    2008 R1200GSA
    2011 Yamaha Tmax

  7. #23
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    I reckon the failures are simply caused by the stress generated in the lug areas by the disc bolts. The fact that the disc cyclically expands and contracts due to heating and cooling further loading and unloading the bolts won't help. I suspect if the bolts were shouldered and the disc floating we would not see this failure mode.

    BMW have obviously got something slightly wrong, material, heat treat whatever. The problem facing the designers is the constant push to lightweight everything vs. longevity of the component. No amount of F.I. analysis and prototype testing substitutes years of field service. But to be fair they did take a lot of weight out of the 1200, the 1150s were stupid heavy.

    I think the main thing is not to panic; whilst I would not suggest for one minute riding a bike with a cracked hub the failure rate seems low and no one is reporting catastropic failures. Regular inspection is the order of the day. Looking at the cracking I would suggest the lugs are unlikely to snap off but it is likely that the disc bolts could come loose.

  8. #24
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    Martin, the disks are held in by loctite as standard.

    When I get the new flange I'll compare it with the older style part on the bike and if obviously different I'll get my head around the photobucket thing and do a write up.

    BMW have obviously changed the part for some reason unless they just change part numbers due to a difference in their suppliers.Maybe they have done a design improvement along the way ??
    ADAM


    2008 R1200GSA
    2011 Yamaha Tmax

  9. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookie View Post
    that doesn't seem likely. cracks come from the disc mounting holes, and are nowhere near the wheel mount bolts.

    does this only affect early models or do i have to take my 06 wheel off?
    I ment rotor...sorry

    Discussed back in 2007 at ADV rider
    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=288905

  10. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pukmeister View Post
    Martin, the disks are held in by loctite as standard.
    I know they're Loctited, I didn't mean the bolts might come loose and cause the failure, rather cracking will allow the threads to relax around the bolt and that may cause loosening

    Quote Originally Posted by Pukmeister View Post
    When I get the new flange I'll compare it with the older style part on the bike and if obviously different I'll get my head around the photobucket thing and do a write up.
    From the photo it looks just like the one on my current '08 machine but as ever the devil may be in the detail, it could just be a different material or a subtle change in the rads.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pukmeister View Post
    BMW have obviously changed the part for some reason unless they just change part numbers due to a difference in their suppliers.Maybe they have done a design improvement along the way ??
    Who knows? One hopes it's a more robust part.

    When you mentioned Loctite I did have another thought re. the failure: Was the old hard Loctite cleaned out with a tap prior to rebuiding? If not winding the bolts into partially clogged threads may overstress the wall of the lug? Part of my job is supervising the maintenance and repair of high precision power presses where Loctite is used everywhere to stop things vibrating apart. We always, always tap out holes and run a die down male threads prior to rebuilding even on heavy castings and forged parts.

    Cheers,

    Martin

  11. #27
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    Yes, the old threads were 'chased' through with a tap to clean out the loctite before reassembly. A medium strength threadlocker was used and the bolts were torqued to the correct stages as per the RepRom.

    I suspect this may be due to cyclical stressing/unstressing of the failed areas through repeated use of the rear brake over time. The wall thickness of the alloy component is fairly thin at the failed sections. I did supect some form of metallurgical fault eg brittle fracture over the recent cold winter whilst riding but now doubt that. I suspect it should be made from some form of precipitation-hardened alloy as standard (solute copper atoms to reduce dislocations).

    Either way, a new (improved?) flange should sort it for £133 and I'm care-free once more.
    ADAM


    2008 R1200GSA
    2011 Yamaha Tmax

  12. #28
    michnus
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    In SA that flange cost 211 Pounds

  13. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenbyrne View Post
    Having read this thread I went out to check the "flange" on my 2004 12GS... thankfully no probs... but in the process I noticed that the rear pads are completely worn..... can anyone recommend a replacement set. Thanks in advance


    Thank you one and all

    Picked up a set of EBC sintered this morning

    Jobs a good one

  14. #30
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    Got the new flange, slight design change to the rear face of it, it has less metal and has a fibre thrower ring bonded to it instead (?).

    Halfway through the job, as already said the flange has to be heated then it comes off easily, it's an interference fit on the splined drive spindle.

    Fun using a three-legged puller on a five-armed hub with a hollow centre.

    New part now heating in the oven, will post some pics once the jobs finished if I can work out where/how to host them.
    ADAM


    2008 R1200GSA
    2011 Yamaha Tmax

  15. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pukmeister View Post
    part now heating in the oven,
    That's a new 'service' BAKERMAN could provide

    Things are looking up on all fronts

  16. #32
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    Job now done, took me an hour and a half due to making too many brews.

    Pics below show my jury-rig of a cheapo 3 leg puller with an old metal test piece from my apprenticeship days as a plug in the hollow spindle to give it something to pull on. Note that it has to be pulled off-centre to get the 3 legs around the 5 armed flange. I heated the flange with my Turbotorch taking care to avoid the ABS sensor and wiring. Once hot enough to expand the flange, it easily slid off the splined rear drive hub with little effort. Without the application of heat it would never have come off as it is an interference fit.



    Second picture below shows the naked splined drive hub once the flange is removed. The yellow spots next to the rear bearing seal is granular rock salt thrown up from the roads. How did that manage to get in there ?? A scrub with some WD40 and an old toothbrush was in order.



    Heres the new versus old flanges shown in the pics below. Note the new item has a fibre thrower ring bonded to the flange, whereas the old part is simply a large diameter section of the flange metal. That appears to be the only difference, the brake disk mounting lugs are the same thickness.





    The final two pics below show the cracks in the arms of the flange where the rear brake disk mounts. The first pic isn't too obvious but the crack is directly above the shadows edge. The second pic of the other lug is obvious.





    Fitting the new flange is easy enough, just heat in a domestic oven to over 100 degrees centigrade then slide it onto the splined hub and refit the circlip to keep in place. As it cools and shrinks onto the hub it stays put. You can just hear the lip of the fibre thrower ring rubbing slightly against the final drive casing recess as the wheel is turned by hand, so presumably that will now prevent the rock salt getting in past the flange unlike the previous design.

    Hope this helps anyone else with the same problem.
    ADAM


    2008 R1200GSA
    2011 Yamaha Tmax

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