"Customer Service", or "F**K the Customer"?

Sgt Bilco said:

This isn`t being negative or pro BuMW but is a realistic view.

Click to expand...

Sergeant B has it about right.

We do a lot of warranty insurance for automotive manufacturers.

Few - if any - manufacturers will extend any kind of warranty payment to a vehicle that has been written off. The legal impications are simply too onerous. Of course you can find warranty cover for second hand vehicles of all sorts, but that is not the same.

The best you can hope for is a 'Good will' payment from BuMW (or much more likely the dealer) to perhaps match in with the dealer's suggestion to bring the vehicle back after the winter.

Even that may be clutching at straws. BuMW themselves may well claim that they (the manufacturer and 'owner' of the manufacturer's original warranty) would have been more than happy to have repaired the corrosion when you first brought the bike in. It was the dealer who suggested that the work was held over, not BuMW, was it not? Quite why the dealer did suggest it - and you accept it - we will probably never know, exactly.

Anyway, what are we talking about? An hour or two with the paint remover gloop and scraper tools, followed by primer and suitable paint. Job done. Cost? A few pounds, surely?

It's difficult to really know the full picture without knowing the legal basis for BMW's warranty but I'd presume it may be along the lines of a contract with authorised dealers to the effect that BMW will pick up the bill for repairs resulting from defective manufacture on any bike under 2 years of age, with a range of exclusions including (it appears) the vehicle being written off.

If (as it appears) the dealer never bothered to make a warranty claim before the vehicle was written off then it's not BMW's problem.

If the bike was written off and the insurance coughed up it would be interesting to know if the amount paid out was reduced to take account of the corrosion. If it wasn't then there's been no loss suffered as a result of the corrosion at that point.

Was the corrosion taken into account in the price paid to buy the bike back from the insurance company? If so then Dave's already had the loss of value taken into consideration.

I would suspect (though it's always tricky to know without the full facts) that if the dealer absolutely insisted that the warranty claim waited until later in the year AND the settlement was reduced because of the corrosion OR the buy-back price wasn't then some form of estoppel might operate and the dealer might owe Dave something for the loss of value on his ultimate sale of the bike because of the corrosion.

If a warranty claim was made but no repair took place then it's possible that there may be some claim against BMW but the loss to Dave might be too remote to get anywhere.

In other words follow Wapping's suggestion of the paint brush!

This issue intrigued me. I emailed BMW customer services to ask for the Warranty t's and c's. They told me that the BMW bike warranty terms and conditions are contained in a little booklet that comes with your bike. Its got a pic of a black/yellow K1200 on it and called "Whatever lies ahead, BMW is right behind you".

Page 1 sets out the Warranty Terms. Page 3 sets of the Warranty Guidelines. the rest of the book is about the recovery service, renewing warranty, european cover etc. I have two of them; one from an '06 bike and one from an '08 bike - warranty terms are identical.

This book lays out the terms and conditions of the warranty, and is the warranty contract. In other words, it is a legal document and therefore legally enforceable.

Nowhere in the blurb about the Warranty does it state that the warranty will terminate in the event that that the bike is involved in an accident or declared being beyond economical repair or an insurance write off.

Therefore, it would appear that Dave Fords bike is covered by Warranty and that BMW are in breach of contract for failing to honour the warranty. Further, it is quite clear that DF's warranty claim has not been caused by the accident, reinforced by the fact that the issue was lodged with a BMW dealer prior to the accident.

So DF, if I were you, I'd write to BMW asking where it their Warranty t's and c's it says that warranty is void in the event of a write-off etc. A very strong case on your side IMHO. The cost of the warranty rectification work is irrelevant; there's an important principle at stake here.

Back to the title of the booklet, "Whatever lies ahead, BMW is right behind you". It should be "Whatever lies ahead, BMW is running away".

C'mon BMW - honour your contract !

[I'll scan the pages in later. Scanner broken @ work...]

there is probably a teeny * that adds some statement along the lines of:

"additional terms apply, please write to

you have got no hope of getting a reply,
bmw warmongering office,
bmw,
Europe,
BMW123FU"

zerocool said:

there is probably a teeny * that adds some statement along the lines of:

"additional terms apply, please write to

you have got no hope of getting a reply,
bmw warmongering office,
bmw,
Europe,
BMW123FU"

Click to expand...

Nope there isn't. And if there was, it wouldn't be enforceable.

Hi Mike

This evening I've been looking for the warranty T&C and came across the very booklet you mention - in fact it's open in front of me as I type. You're correct that it is silent on accident damage or writing off.

I've arranged to sit down with our company legal advisor tomorrow and he's going to help me draft the next letter.

This is now an issue of principle - I've already bought and fitted a new front cover on the assumption that I'll get no compensation from BMW or Pidcock's. However I hate being treated like this, and I believe that BMW should not be allowed to get away such behaviour.

DF - Glad to be of service sir! Despite the naysayers of this parish... Just hope if works out for you, and dont take no for an answer. BMW's behaviour is inexcusable.

Good on yer for fighting this

Hope it works out for you it would be an interesting 'test' case especially for anyone buying a nearly new damaged repairable bike

Wapping said:

Sergeant B has it about right.

We do a lot of warranty insurance for automotive manufacturers.

Few - if any - manufacturers will extend any kind of warranty payment to a vehicle that has been written off. The legal impications are simply too onerous. Of course you can find warranty cover for second hand vehicles of all sorts, but that is not the same.

The best you can hope for is a 'Good will' payment from BuMW (or much more likely the dealer) to perhaps match in with the dealer's suggestion to bring the vehicle back after the winter.

Even that may be clutching at straws. BuMW themselves may well claim that they (the manufacturer and 'owner' of the manufacturer's original warranty) would have been more than happy to have repaired the corrosion when you first brought the bike in. It was the dealer who suggested that the work was held over, not BuMW, was it not? Quite why the dealer did suggest it - and you accept it - we will probably never know, exactly.

Anyway, what are we talking about? An hour or two with the paint remover gloop and scraper tools, followed by primer and suitable paint. Job done. Cost? A few pounds, surely?

Click to expand...

The best you can hope for is a 'Good will' payment from BuMW (or much more likely the dealer)

Exactly, Wapping.

As I clearly sated in my original email to BMW "Customer Services":

Evidently BWM consider that any warranty becomes null and void when a bike is written off. I can understand the underlying reasons for such a policy. Any manufacturer would want to protect itself from fraudulent warranty claims whereby owners attempt to cover the costs of repairing accident damage, which should, of course, be covered by insurance. Nevertheless, I ask that BMW reconsider their position in respect the case with my bike, on the grounds that:
Under no circumstances could it be argued that the corrosion is the result of accident damage;
I have taken steps to try to protect the bike from the elements and the prevent corrosion occurring in the first place;
I did mention the corrosion to Pidcock’s in November but agreed that the work should be delayed until after the winter;
Given the age of the bike, the degree of corrosion would be totally unacceptable on a motorcycle from any manufacturer. It is particularly unacceptable on a bike costing in excess of £10,000 from a manufacturer that claims to produce premium motorcycles;
I have already, indirectly, borne the cost of the corrosion as this was taken into account when the insurance company’s assessor made his valuation after agreeing that the bike was a write-off;
I have repaired the bike to a very high standard (I deliberately took the bike to Pidcock’s for the (required) MoT test, as they had inspected it when it was damaged - I could have easily taken it to a local MoT testing centre who would have never known anything of its history). Unless one knows where to look, it is now impossible to tell that the bike has ever been in any sort of accident. However what is immediately noticeable is the corrosion!

I believe that it would be fair and appropriate for BMW to meet the cost of replacing the engine front cover, rear wheel and final drive housing. However I would be prepared to accept replacement parts on a supply-only basis, and carry out the replacement work myself.


All I'm asking for it to be treated as most other organisations would treat a customer who has put more than £20,000 of business, from their own funds, their way, and who has been sold goods which are, let's be honest, a disgrace. Note that at no point do BMW try to defend their (lack of) build quality. What totally p*sses me off is the "these are rules, so f*ck off (and by the way we don't mention this 'rule' in our terms and conditions)" attitude. I believe that many of the contributors to this thread have lost sight of the wood for the trees, and as long as people continue to support BMW's approach to their customers, the longer those customers will be treated with contempt.

Anyway, what are we talking about? An hour or two with the paint remover gloop and scraper tools, followed by primer and suitable paint. Job done. Cost? A few pounds, surely?

What we are talking about, is an issue of principle. As mentioned elsewhere, I've already bought and fitted a new front cover. Are you suggesting that whatever crap BMW dish out to us, we just shrug our shoulders and get on with the repairs? It's certainly an "interesting" point of view, to which of course you are perfectly entitled, but not one to which I'm prepared to sign up.

+1

Well said DF.

I think we can assume that this is the last BMW that DF will be purchasing.

Well it seems you should haver made the dealer, how ever nice to you, change the parts.

You should also, now take full responabilaty for the repair's.

you where, unlucky in having the accedent, on your strusted stead, that you had lavished over with WD40 or a like.

If you have been lucky in repairing this bike and can sell it on, well done, let that be the end.

I would also like to say, make sure your bike has its engine running, the next time you apply any form of lube, this will dry the part to be sprayed, and also dry the lube in place, if you use bike chain wax which has a wd40 type lube in it.
let it dry, wipe off excess and then apply a silicon, over this and do this on each and every wash.

from your pic's there was water behind the parts this you can see from the bubbles, as the engine got hot so did the water and expanded.

Also hope you where ok, after the bike accident, and was only pride that had been hurt.
Good luck with or now your new bike.

Bill.