Replacing Valeo with Bosch starter?

bubbles

bubbles

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Looks like I may have the infamous Valeo starter affliction. Pressed the starter button on my 91 100GSPD when I finished work on Thursday just a CLICK, second try on the starter CLICK...... third time started fine, at home put the battery on charge. Friday morning 6.40am started no problem went to work, leaving work Friday afternoon CLICK, each prod on the start button, bol (Dave) of this site gave me a bump start, thanks Dave. At home stripped tank etc off and tested voltage on the switched side of the solenoid when it was pulled in, nothing, but have 12v from battery direct onto the other solenoid contact. Stripped out starter motor and solenoid to check the solenoid contacts only to find its impossible to get at them so guess I need to drill the rivets out to remove the armature and check the magnets in case they are inhibiting the travel of the armature and solenoid. Anyway as I have a spare Bosch start and solenoid for my 78 80/7 I wondered if there are any drawbacks to fitting this in place of the Valeo one to keep the gs on the road.
Have checked out starter motor overhaul here http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210783 and here http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206156
 
The bosch motor is twice the weight and half as efficient as the valeo
Even with a good battery you will find the bosch slow on the 1000cc engine...
Thats why i rebuilt the valeo when i have 3 spare bosch's in the workshop
Mind you ii have bosch on my off roader cuz it gets a fair bit of shite into it and slowly destroys itself...Plus i have pleanty of spares for it
That starts but always sounds like it not going too :augie
 
Bubbles, If you have seen the two articles on here, one that I posted you will see how easy it is. the two pop rivits can easily be removed and do not even neeed to be replaced. The later car type valeos seem to have a lot more resin holding the magnets so will probably last a lot longer than the originals. I f you want a hand wiuth this let me know, Im not too far away.
I got my scrap starter motor from SW renaulkt spares at Redruth. They will sell a complete working starter for about £30 but if you explain that all ytou want is the body with the magnets they raid the scrap bin and I paid £5.
 
pastyman said:
Bubbles, If you have seen the two articles on here, one that I posted you will see how easy it is. the two pop rivits can easily be removed and do not even neeed to be replaced. The later car type valeos seem to have a lot more resin holding the magnets so will probably last a lot longer than the originals. I f you want a hand wiuth this let me know, Im not too far away.
I got my scrap starter motor from SW renaulkt spares at Redruth. They will sell a complete working starter for about £30 but if you explain that all ytou want is the body with the magnets they raid the scrap bin and I paid £5.
Click to expand...

Thanks Tony, just come in from the garage having put it all back together. The magnets are all ok in my starter the problem was the plant gears that the armature meshes into were very stiff to turn and gummed up with old hardened grease, this is a picture of them after much flushing out with WD40.
DSCN4015.jpg


This made the starter very stiff to turn. Now all cleaned, greased up and refitted, only problem is I had a bit of a disaster with the plastic brush holder, not sure how it happened after the first reassembly started once ok then just a relay clicking in no solenoid operating so stripped it again and found this....
DSCN4028.jpg


anyway super glued it fitted it all back together and starts like a new one, just not sure how far to trust the glued together brush holder. Probably try to get a scrap one for parts from SW renaulkt on Tuesday, are they easy to find?
Thanks again for the reply Tony, wishing you well for Christmas and the New Year. :beerjug:
Thanks also to Gary for your reply, thought what you said about weight and lack of power may be the case.

bubbles.
 
bosch

I replaced a Valeo with a Bosch - the only difference being the bosch mount is not threaded so you have to find a couple of nyloc nuts, sorry dont remember the size
 
bubbles said:
Thanks Tony, just come in from the garage having put it all back together. The magnets are all ok in my starter the problem was the plant gears that the armature meshes into were very stiff to turn and gummed up with old hardened grease, this is a picture of them after much flushing out with WD40.
DSCN4015.jpg


This made the starter very stiff to turn. Now all cleaned, greased up and refitted, only problem is I had a bit of a disaster with the plastic brush holder, not sure how it happened after the first reassembly started once ok then just a relay clicking in no solenoid operating so stripped it again and found this....
DSCN4028.jpg


anyway super glued it fitted it all back together and starts like a new one, just not sure how far to trust the glued together brush holder. Probably try to get a scrap one for parts from SW renaulkt on Tuesday, are they easy to find?
Thanks again for the reply Tony, wishing you well for Christmas and the New Year. :beerjug:
Thanks also to Gary for your reply, thought what you said about weight and lack of power may be the case.

bubbles.
Click to expand...

Bubbles. Southwest Renault spares are between Redruth and Portreath just outside Redruth. quite easy to see but if you are interested, I have a spare off the starter I bought from them. its in perfect nick and if you want to have a run over you can have it. giz us a ring. 01209 860803.:thumb2
 
Hi

The brush holders on the Valeos are easy to break as they get very brittle with age. You can get replacements, try searching for Valeo starter repair on eBay.

Are you sure you fixed the original problem? Your symptoms sounded like a solenoid problem rather than a motor problem. Check that the solenoid slug is clean and travels easily within the solenoid. If the solenoid contacts are going there is no way to replace them. The whole solenoid can be replaced but with the cost of this and the brush holder you would be better off buying a reconditioned starter.

The Bosch starter is a direct replacement for the Valeo, far more reliable and easy to service. There were several types of Bosch starter used on airheads. Yours should be OK, but check the pinion has 9 teeth (the same as the Valeo) before fitting it. It will turn the engine a bit slower, is a bit heavier, and uses more current. Detailed fitting instructions are here http://www.gunsmoke.com/motorcycling/r100gs/starter/

Steve
 
On the other hand, the Nippon Denso unit is half the weight of a Bosch and draws 80 amps, compared to the 120ish amp draw of a Bosch;)

John
 
SJRoome said:
Hi


Are you sure you fixed the original problem? Your symptoms sounded like a solenoid problem rather than a motor problem. Check that the solenoid slug is clean and travels easily within the solenoid. If the solenoid contacts are going there is no way to replace them.


Steve
Click to expand...

Steve, I did think to start with it was a solenoid, continuity through the contacts problem, but not 100% sure of the test meter I was using. Yes I've cleaned the slug and lubed with just a smidgen of silicon grease and the supply to the starter has not failed since, here's hoping its sorted.

bubbles.
 
Hi

To test the solenoid contacts, measure the voltage drop across the contacts while cranking the engine. To prevent the engine starting turn the fuel taps off and remove the carb bowls. According to the manual the drop should be less than 0.5V.

And John is right, if you can afford it, the Nippon Denso is the best starter. I fitted one to mine last year.:)

Steve
 
bosch

Hi Bubbles
it is on a '89 R100GS. It works fine, is 'slower' than the Valeo but always fires up
Cheers
Mike
 
more stater problems.

Stripped the starter motor out again this evening as still giving trouble, battery draining and just a click when pressing the start button. I changed the battery for the fully charged one off the 80/7 first but made no difference so out came the starter motor again. What I found was the brush spring shorting out on the copper braid connection to one of the brushes, where I had routed the braid incorrectly :(.
DSCN4032.jpg

The spring was over the braid at the top of the picture, below that where the numbers are you can see where the heated spring had started to melt into the plastic :eek
The problem now is that the spring being heat treated when I attempted to reshape it back to bare on the brushes it broke in two....:blast
DSCN4030.jpg

Anyone out there got a spring they don't want? if not guess I'll have to wait for pastyman to come back from Cheshire. I did put a spare Bosch starter on but could not get it to work, no ignition lights when the battery was reconnected and the solenoid just got hot which was a bit scary:eek: are there any alterations I need to make to the wiring to fit the Bosch one?
 
Geoff. I.m back home now , The brush plate I nave has got the springs on it so its just a matter of grtting it to you, If the weather is OK this weekend I will try to get over and see you, Forcast doesnt look too good though. Giz us a ring and we can sort something out;
 
pastyman said:
Geoff. I.m back home now , The brush plate I nave has got the springs on it so its just a matter of grtting it to you, If the weather is OK this weekend I will try to get over and see you, Forcast doesnt look too good though. Giz us a ring and we can sort something out;
Click to expand...

Cheers Tony you're a star :thumb2, will ring you a bit later when I've got me head together a bit.
Just by way of an update, I had another look at the Bosch starter when I got back from the SW New Years Eve bimble (on the k) yesterday and discovered the connection from the solenoid to starter motor was shorting out on the top of the engine breather casting :blast, and coursing it to earth out through the solenoid. I stripped the starter apart thinking it may be possible to assemble in a different configuration to give better clearance for the connection but it will only go together one way due to the jigsaw type manufacture of the parts. Anyway I turned the solenoid 180 in relation to the starter motor and that gave enough clearance and after a bit of reluctance (not surprising I suppose, having been stored in a damp garage for ten years after being taken off a bike that had run 140,000miles) it turned over and stated ok. :)
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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