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Thread: Riding Skills - Please read

  1. #17
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    Class 1

    Nice one Giles. Plenty of posters rate themselves quite highly, just ignore the flak. You`re actually professionally competent and I`m looking forward to reading a few posts about riding skills.

  2. #18

    You have my support

    Hello Giles

    Good luck with the idea, you have my support. You can use some of my videos if you want.

    Nigel

    aka Advancedbiker on Youtube

  3. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MickDB1 View Post
    I have and always will be willing to listen to any advice from anyone
    Anyone who thinks they know it all is a numpty
    bring the tips on matey
    My golden tip is - cos I am a plumber - Know where yer stopcock is !!
    ....and make sure you can move it!!

  4. #20
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    The biggest problem with male bikers is...

    Their friggin ego.
    Common phrases of the average male egostistical biker.


    Ive been ridin since i were knee high to a grasshopper.....
    No-ones gonna teach me about riding me bike...
    I aint going to no namby pamby poxy riding school....
    Advanced riding is for nobs...

    Funny that, these are normally the "nobs" i leave behind on the twisties,cos ive been trained properly,and i can read the road.
    So if you do one worthwhile thing this year, go and spend some of your bling money and get trained properly.
    Its the best accessory you can buy for your bike.
    Al Jesse panniers for sale , fits a 1200 GS /GSA Air cooled £450 posted.




  5. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad biker View Post
    Its the best accessory you can buy for your bike.
    You sure it ain't a small number plate or purple headlight cover, they sure do seem popular round here

  6. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad biker View Post
    Their friggin ego.
    Common phrases of the average male egostistical biker.


    Ive been ridin since i were knee high to a grasshopper.....
    No-ones gonna teach me about riding me bike...
    I aint going to no namby pamby poxy riding school....
    Advanced riding is for nobs...

    Funny that, these are normally the "nobs" i leave behind on the twisties,cos ive been trained properly,and i can read the road.
    So if you do one worthwhile thing this year, go and spend some of your bling money and get trained properly.
    Its the best accessory you can buy for your bike.
    Giles' threads are looking good, getting some ideas forward and interesting to add to as there are many different "ways". Sadly bike shop carparks are full of bullshit artists that rarely hit a twisty and crap themselves if it rains.

    Never stop learning...

  7. #23
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    I've been riding around 26 years now and consider myself a 'fair to cr*p' rider. Always been ever so slightly scared of bikes (after getting 2 metal pins from falling off a pushbike)...... but also love them in equal measure. For me, that balance of fear and love has helped me to never have a crash ...... YET.

    Beyond doubt the most I've ever learnt on a bike was a bikesafe course I did a few years ago. I'll be going on another shortly - when I get my GS.

    Many, many thanks for this advice; delivered in 'easy' to understand format.

    Cheers Giles, much appreciated.

    Kim

  8. #24
    Ok, Good stuff. (And thanks to all for the positive feedback).

    Just out of interest, the origins and the thought process behind the national bikesafe package, was to give motorcyclists a taste of further training - esp those that you'd not normally find at your local, say, IAM club. The thinking was, give them the idea that training can be interesting, challenging, can genuinely improve your riding, and they might take it up with a local club on their monthly meets.

    I don't think I'm speaking out of turn when I say that some of the time, Bikesafe (think big picture, accident stats, a lot of sports bike accidents etc) doesn't quite haul in the very riders it wants to attract.

    Its true to say that bikers still spend hundreds and hundreds of pounds on cans, power comanders, suspension, carbon this and that.. you name it. But very few will either spend a couple of hundred quid on a good road based training company or check out their local advanced group. And I promise you, I promise you, that further training, and how to ride quickly and still safely, is a bigger investment into your biking life than any aftermarket goodie you'll ever buy! (And it will stay with you for ever..!).

    I am very passionate about it

  9. #25
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    Every day is a learning curve!!

    Quote Originally Posted by mr badger View Post
    I'm very pleasedto see this. Thanks to Giles and other future contributors.

    You'll get some crap from certain quarters of course. Usually those who are, of course completely confident and competent.

    I'll always listen. I started riding again 8 years ago. I failed my test 3 times. I have very little natural talent but love riding with a passion.

    Since finally passing my test I've done about 20 days and half days of professional training, none incidentally with the IAM, of which I am a member (passed my test without an allocated observer or coaching).

    Despite recently having an assesment where my riding was complemented as being at a very good level, I still feel barely competent. I'll continue to learn, train and hopefully improve with the help of good folk like yourself Giles.

    My thanks in advance.

    Now, how about some exercises to get me turning in a bit later on tight right handers then?


    Yes everyday is a learning curve and if i go away at the end of the day knowing something i didnt know before then I'm quite happy. I passed my car test first time, and then my bike test and then both parts of my HGV including the articulated bit (shame i'm not so articulate in my writing!!!) but it doesnt mean i'm a cocky b*****d it just means i listen to what im told. I try to ride defensively and anything that may possibly prolong my life riding what my folks call "one of them bloody dangerous bikes ". SOOO, cmon then gis some advice I can bugger off and practice!!.

  10. #26
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    Giles i have done bike safe and skills for life this year and haven't regretted a minute of the time spent on either. keep up the good work on this topic - there are plenty of us who really appreciate what you are doing.

    one thing I have not been able to find is a series of drawings showing the correct line through a variety of different bends and maybe some linked ones which seems to be at the heart of a lot of training. its not in the IAM book( how to be a better rider) or the police one motorcycle road craft. there is plenty of discussion about positioniong on entry ( and your photos in the positioning thread cover this) but not through the bend(s). At bike safe the police tutor drew some lines on a white board showing the difference between the racing line and the road line. this is one of the aspects of my riding that has changed the most and as is said often a picture can be worth a thousand words.

    keep up the good work

  11. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by davnjud View Post
    Giles i have done bike safe and skills for life this year and haven't regretted a minute of the time spent on either. keep up the good work on this topic - there are plenty of us who really appreciate what you are doing.

    one thing I have not been able to find is a series of drawings showing the correct line through a variety of different bends and maybe some linked ones which seems to be at the heart of a lot of training. its not in the IAM book( how to be a better rider) or the police one motorcycle road craft. there is plenty of discussion about positioniong on entry ( and your photos in the positioning thread cover this) but not through the bend(s). At bike safe the police tutor drew some lines on a white board showing the difference between the racing line and the road line. this is one of the aspects of my riding that has changed the most and as is said often a picture can be worth a thousand words.

    keep up the good work
    The term race line is always very subjective, I quite like Keith Code's definition of the "correct" line, which is one that allows you to follow his throttle control rule number one, which is:

    "Once the throttle is applied it should be rolled on evenly and consistently throughout the remainder of the turn" or something like that, cannot be arsed to look up the exact phrase. And basically applies to getting on the gas after turning in.

    Anyway, this works quite well on the road, if you take a line on the road where you cannot (OK cannot safely) follow this rule then you are probably not on a good line.

    Although the track application is purely dealing with line related to going from A-B where visibility is of no concern, it still works well on the road, you can still take a crap line with good vision.

    If you find you need to back off mid-turn the line is wrong, regardless of if this is caused by lack of visibility or poor line choice.

  12. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasher View Post
    If you find you need to back off mid-turn the line is wrong, regardless of if this is caused by lack of visibility or poor line choice.
    A few others.... too quick entry speed, wrong gear, on throttle too early, freezing mid turn etc, etc (outta ground clearance on a Harley).

    That's the thing about riding, training and self analysis. If you ride and don't self analyse you stuff then you are going to keep doing the same things. The best thing about these threads is it shows that riding is easy enough when you are experienced, confident, relaxed and thinking but very complex to learn off the bat or teach.

    Experience is the top thing and I have been told things by many people over the years who ride 2/3k miles a year tops, mainly weekends and only when it's sunny.

    You have to mix the theory with much practice to get a feel for your riding and learn and keep learning. And if you fck up, work it out and try not to repeat

  13. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasher View Post
    Anyway, this works quite well on the road, if you take a line on the road where you cannot (OK cannot safely) follow this rule then you are probably not on a good line.
    Ummmmmmmmmmm!!!!????!!

    I understand what you're saying, and Codes 'rule no. one' is not too far removed from the driving school 'ease and squeeze', but it's track stuff, not road stuff!
    Any vehicle, bike or car, needs to be balanced on corner entry, and we do that by making sure we've entered the corner at the right speed, so that as our view opens we can drive on a cracked open throttle, getting that 60/40 weight distribution. This gives us a beautifully balanced bike.
    When we get it wrong we 'charge' (into) a corner, we're in too fast to get on the gas, so the bike (or car) is unbalanced, the front is over loaded, the weight distribution is wrong, we struggle to turn it, and this leads to a catalogue of unfolding errors (stiff arms, target fixation, stuck off the throttle or worse still grab the front brake ... crash!!).

    The idea that the perfect line allows for a cracked throttle as early as possible, is fine on a track. Speed speed speed!! get on the gas early, kiss the paintwork on the apex ..... come on, the clock is ticking!! I need to beat my 58 seconds round the Indy circuit!!

    Suitable for the road? Nah!! I am a serious petrol head and have been doing track days since the mid eighties. (Not long sold my track zx6..), and I don't mind blowing smoke up my own arse and saying I'm a bloody quick road rider! But I seperate my track day head from my road head and what dictates my road head, is safety and view.
    I know what yer saying, (balance and all that..) but it's about view, not getting on the gas as early as you can!

  14. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by giles lamb View Post
    Ummmmmmmmmmm!!!!????!!

    I understand what you're saying, and Codes 'rule no. one' is not too far removed from the driving school 'ease and squeeze', but it's track stuff, not road stuff!
    Any vehicle, bike or car, needs to be balanced on corner entry, and we do that by making sure we've entered the corner at the right speed, so that as our view opens we can drive on a cracked open throttle, getting that 60/40 weight distribution. This gives us a beautifully balanced bike.
    When we get it wrong we 'charge' (into) a corner, we're in too fast to get on the gas, so the bike (or car) is unbalanced, the front is over loaded, the weight distribution is wrong, we struggle to turn it, and this leads to a catalogue of unfolding errors (stiff arms, target fixation, stuck off the throttle or worse still grab the front brake ... crash!!).

    The idea that the perfect line allows for a cracked throttle as early as possible, is fine on a track. Speed speed speed!! get on the gas early, kiss the paintwork on the apex ..... come on, the clock is ticking!! I need to beat my 58 seconds round the Indy circuit!!

    Suitable for the road? Nah!! I am a serious petrol head and have been doing track days since the mid eighties. (Not long sold my track zx6..), and I don't mind blowing smoke up my own arse and saying I'm a bloody quick road rider! But I seperate my track day head from my road head and what dictates my road head, is safety and view.
    I know what yer saying, (balance and all that..) but it's about view, not getting on the gas as early as you can!
    Yep, I was thinking... the thing about a track is you are trying to optimise the corner and it is just unfortunate when something like another rider gets in the way... as... on the road you are trying to optimise the safe negotiation of the corner and other things are to be expected.

    Sadly, it is when you ride the road like a track that the clock is ticking on your luck. I know this through youthful experience

    That is why i like the road... there are many other things/parameters to keep working on to make it "good riding". I learnt many things as a courier by self analysis as ignorance is definately not bliss for riding like that, it is crashes

  15. #31
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    countersteering

    I ride a Street triple and a GS. I think because of different steering geometry it seems to me the countersteering input is very different between the two of them. On the street a very conscious push on the inside bar gets the turn started or tightened whereas on the GS I can , for example weave around manhole covers or tip into a turn by what feels like most like a hip movement and actually in terms of hands input the opposite of countersteering. any thoughts about this or ho ho counter views? what do you think about to get rapid steering input on your GS or is it all instinctive ?


  16. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by davnjud View Post
    I ride a Street triple and a GS. I think because of different steering geometry it seems to me the countersteering input is very different between the two of them. On the street a very conscious push on the inside bar gets the turn started or tightened whereas on the GS I can , for example weave around manhole covers or tip into a turn by what feels like most like a hip movement and actually in terms of hands input the opposite of countersteering. any thoughts about this or ho ho counter views? what do you think about to get rapid steering input on your GS or is it all instinctive ?

    Countersteering often feels instinctive and very easy on bikes like GS's due to the tiller like steering (wide bars). Also it turns very easily anyhow. On bikes like the Speed Trip you have narrower bars and the old ones had slowish steering so it's far more pronounced. Also all bikes have a natural speed which the forward momentum drops enough for the bike to start to tip on its own. GS's sometimes feel like this probably due to the Telelever.

    A good test is to ride up to about 40 and nearly (Liability get out) let go of the bars and see how it reacts as it naturally decellerates. At some point around 15-20 it will probably start to veer slightly left/right and then drop in at walking pace. Obviously find a quiet place to test this and not the middle of the North Circ at rush hour

    Another test is to go round a relatively big roundabout using you right palm for the throttle and when you lean you will be pushing (unless you're exiting left).

    It will be instincive ot most blokes on here but it's good to know when you need to avoid some bstrd in an rush

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