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Thread: Riding Skills - Please read

  1. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by davnjud View Post
    whereas on the GS I can , for example weave around manhole covers or tip into a turn by what feels like most like a hip movement and actually in terms of hands input the opposite of countersteering.

    Yes - the GS is quite a 'hippy' bike.




    Look at the difference in styles between say moto gp and super moto. Sports bikes are designed for weight over the front, counter steering, hanging off, arse out the saddle ..... But some bikes have a different feel and are more flickable from the centre of gravity for want of a better way of explaining it! And the GS, with it's wide bars, will turn well from your hips and 'flick', where as your street triple will want lots of input on your bars.

  2. #34
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    Wrigsby, Giles thanks for the replies. amazing film of the supermoto maniacs. don't think I should try their hairpin bend technique on hard knott pass which is close to where I live. good to know that my sense of how to steer a Gs was not too far off the mark - had not discussed this issue with anyone before

  3. #35


    As you are in the lucky positiong of having two different types of bike, you can jump from one to t'other and experiment with styles of riding.

    Some folks push a bike underneath them, especially GS style traily / supermotoey stuff. I've had sports bikes all my life and pushing a bike down underneath me just doesn't come naturally to me.

    I like to push against my outside peg and push my weight forward, (pushing myself forward from my toes) over the front, crooking my arm. Almost like a knights move on a chess board. One step forward and one diagonally to, in this case, the left.

    Look at my riding partner on the right; he won't get his weight forward and slightly to the inside of the corner - I keep telling him!! His head is all wrong - it should be leading him!!

    Look at his almost straight left arm rather than crooked. By weighting your front (moving yourself forward by just 6") you will move 25? 30? kilos of body weight. Your front will feel more planted, your elbows will flex, your steering will be looser (think elbows like the super moto vid above), your head will lead you more, and the net result? You ride round the outside of your best buddy!!! That's my style, and would probably suit your street tripple.

    You may well find though that when you ride the GS, you adopt the more hippy style of pushing it down underneath you? As I say, I struggle with that a little bit, and always default to sports bike mode, but for some, it's a very effective way of flicking their bike about underneath them.
    Go practice!!

  4. #36
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    Once again a load of mistakes drilled out of riders by the CSS which so many claim is "not suitable for the road"

    Here we possibly have:

    Head in wrong position
    Possibly not really looking where he is going, or far enough forward
    Tense on bars
    Arms Straight
    Possibly body not as stable as it should be

    In fact he looks very uncomfortable, though I think I would trying to lean a big beemer like that so far over!

    Bet he still gets along a fair bit quicker than me, but send him to Mr Code and I bet he would come back faster and safer - road or track.

  5. #37
    You and yer fecking CSS.......!!!!!!!!

    I swear you've got shares in them .....

  6. #38
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    Just think too many people have a narrow perspective on what will and won't aid them on the road, it all helps in my book and I think the CSS stuff is great, the DVD is about £15 and 99% of riders would get something useful out of it, I like the schools too, but at over £350 they are a bit rich for most people.

    I would like to ask about the picture, it looked like spirited riding on the public highway, in fact the sort that may get a non-copper a ticket for Due Care or Dangerous driving.

    I was once pulled for exiting a roundabout too quickly by some arse of a bike copper, not a generalist statement of my thoughts on coppers, I had a copper as a neighbour at the time and I could not repeat on this forum his description of the chap.

    At what point does spirited riding typically become likely to get you in trouble?

    I found out the hard way wheelies are frowned upon

  7. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasher View Post
    At what point does spirited riding typically become likely to get you in trouble?

    (The picture was a magazine shoot...)

    I can't give you a definitive answer on that, because one persons opinion, will differ from another. Ultimately a court would decide what is dangerous, what is not in proper control or what is careless.

    Careless riding (driving) is when your standard of riding falls below that expected of a competant and careful driver. Dangerous is when it falls 'far' below.

    Is scraping a knee slider or popping a little wheelie careless or dangerous? What would the average driver think? Would you convince a court that this wasn't careless at all but actually quite skillful? (probably not!)

    Coppers are only human, and some will be more tolerant than others. If I followed somebody riding at 80 in a 60, and they were riding well, I might not even stop them! I might pull up along side, gesture a slow down / calm down affair and leave them to it. Is that right or wrong? Purists would argue you're not judge and jury, it's not for you to decide, you shouldn't use your discretion so much. I would argue, let me decide within reason, who is riding like a plum, and who is admittedly over the speed limit, but riding well and doesn't deserve a ticket! Would I give a ticket to a rider doing the same speed but riding badly, maybe its raining, maybe he's done a few lairy overtakes ... Yeah, I probably would. Am I wrong for using my discretion? (would the rider who was left alone think I'm a good copper, and the one that got the ticket think I'm an arse??!!!)

    Take ten of your work colleagues and make them a copper for a day. ''Bloody hell ..... Imagine John .... he'd be like flipping Stalin, he'd book everybody. What about Mark?, Jeez, he's so laid back he'd let every body off...''.

    There's no easy answer, sorry!! (Well there is ... don't get caught... )

  8. #40
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    Like the bit about how you "think" your shape on your sports bike. I had the saying "lead with your shoulder, elbow and hip" from some article years ago. I used to move naturally to change weight distribution on sporty stuff after seriously running out of ground clearance while sitting "on" my 1st sports bike with a not good outcome.

    I don't move on my GS as it doesn't feel right to me but the bars are so much higher and you sit more in the middle as opposed to "over the front" as you said and also "in" the bike as opposed to on it.

    Your oppo in the pic looks "locked" at about his lean limit at that point but you have gone in deeper and let the bike do the work which is part of the fun I have always tried to get across to folk that the bike is not the limit and it is happy as long as you are.

    I have had many friends join the Police and come into contact with many more over the years. It is amazing how many want to push the rule book down your throat and how many are totally common sense. Sadly it is a wide margin!

    I always see the Traffic laws as the black and white or grey ones. The grey ones are open to interpretation as to the "what" and how" of your riding. The black and white ones are not.

  9. #41
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    thanks Giles, interesting photo - certainly your style looks more balanced of the two. so when you ride your Gs do you consciously or perceptively push on the inside bar to start a turn or change direction smartly? Frankly it almost feels to me as though I am pulling the bar towards me initially but can then tighten the turn with countersteering once over.

    I am a lucky biker and will also be getting my hands on a ducati 848 evo next feb. so I am looking forward to developing some sports bike riding skills, hopefully including a California session. meanwhile I find these threads really interesting and helpful.

  10. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by davnjud View Post
    thanks Giles, interesting photo - certainly your style looks more balanced of the two. so when you ride your Gs do you consciously or perceptively push on the inside bar to start a turn or change direction smartly? Frankly it almost feels to me as though I am pulling the bar towards me initially but can then tighten the turn with countersteering once over.

    I am a lucky biker and will also be getting my hands on a ducati 848 evo next feb. so I am looking forward to developing some sports bike riding skills, hopefully including a California session. meanwhile I find these threads really interesting and helpful.
    Try steering with input though your throttle hand only. You will know when you push and pull then. Or use both palms without "pulling" the bars. Always worth a play to isolate what you do from what you think you do

  11. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by davnjud View Post
    I am a lucky biker and will also be getting my hands on a ducati 848 evo next feb.


    Wow, very nice too.

    Do I consciously push my bars on the GS? Errrrrrr, Ummmmmm !! I don't know!! I just jump on and ride it!

    I think the beemer is a very flick flack bike and is renowned for having great handling. I supose read that as 'easy' handling. You're right, it requires very little input to flick it about, so I suppose the answer is no, I don't really think about it. Some times when I'm playing and I'm cranked right over, I consciously give it a reall pull to stand it up right coming out of a bend, and I might in particular do that on a double apex where I'll leave my body position for the bend, but straighten the bike up, before dropping it in again. (get it!?) I'm sure the wide bars help alot.

    You will certainly notice the difference jumping from the BM onto an 848. The Dukes bars will feel like they're 9" apart, and you'll probably notice how much slower the steering is, and how much more input into the steering you will need to move the bike about.
    That doesn't make it a bad thing though. It's just different. It's like different profiled tyres, some will fall in, some need pushing in.
    All round, It'll be really good for you to have different bikes in your garage that require slightly different riding styles. It'll make you a more rounded biker!! You'll be able to jump on any bike and adapt to it quickly. Lucky you !!

  12. #44
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    My mate tried racing a CB500 and a Blade in the same year, sometimes as he came in from one race we would have the other bike running and he would have to hop on and within 10 minutes of taking turn one on the last bike, be approaching it on the other - it did not pan out very well that year!

    I still have no idea how Freddie Spencer pulled of the 250 / 500 double in an era where competitors included Lawson, Mamola, Gardner, Sarron and Haslam on the 500's and Mang, Reggiani, Lavado and Wimmer on the 250's.

    Check out the results here for the ultimate adaptable rider:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_Gr..._racing_season

    I find switching bikes quite hard and it takes quite a while for me to adapt, I suppose if you own both and ride them both quite a bit it should fall into place in a few miles, and I guess you will seek out different types of roads with them.

    Lawson attending the CSS and it did not seem to do him too much harm either

  13. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasher View Post
    Lawson attending the CSS and it did not seem to do him too much harm either

    Ohhh Gawd, he's off again!!!!!!!!!

  14. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasher View Post
    Once again a load of mistakes drilled out of riders by the CSS which so many claim is "not suitable for the road"

    Here we possibly have:

    Head in wrong position
    Possibly not really looking where he is going, or far enough forward
    Tense on bars
    Arms Straight
    Possibly body not as stable as it should be

    Oh, i checked all the above list and i must be doing something right...........still shit though

    And i havent even been to CSS



    When i tried fast changes of direction by weighting footpegs as i used to do on the 636, the GS1150 tied itself in knots which i put down to the hugely softer suspension from the track based stuff on the sports bike

  15. #47
    Davnjud - found another good video for you!!

    Only gets really interesting after about 4 mins! Look for the black lines this nutter is leaving on the tarmac and his push it underneath him riding style. Works for him!!!!!!


  16. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigyin View Post

    When i tried fast changes of direction by weighting footpegs as i used to do on the 636, the GS1150 tied itself in knots which i put down to the hugely softer suspension from the track based stuff on the sports bike
    That may be because weighting footpegs does nothing, if you had been to the school you would know this, they have a no BS bike which has a set of rigid handlebars with second throttle / brake, on the DVD they have guy standing on one peg to demonstrate how weighting does naff all.

    My mate reckons you can stand side-saddle and jump up and down on the pegs and it barely changes direction, however applying pressure to pegs as part of stabilising yourself on the bike, getting a better body position and being able to put more force into bars etc when steering does make a difference.

    If you aint seen it check out the DVD, some great camera locations and tricks have been used to prove / disprove many theories and myths.

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