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Thread: Positioning

  1. #49
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    The IAM don't like you using the other side of the road these days, but I say cobblers ... it's a real world out there and we're on motorbikes

    If trimming out bends you can see round, thus making 'the line' smoother, sweeter and safer, then let's have a piece of it, even if it does mean us being on the other side of the road and crossing a broken white line

    We've paid our road tax and entitled to be there...

    We use the other side of the road for overtakes don't we
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  2. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micky View Post
    .

    We use the other side of the road for overtakes don't we
    Heretic! You'll get drummed out at this rate.

    I was actively encouraged to use the offside on Bikesafe. 'It's all there for you if you're sensible'.

  3. #51
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    Great drawings Mickey

    These threads are good at showing folk that there is no "one way" but lots of things to make it "a good way" through a bit of thought. I have long thought of road riding as a sort of dot to dot between the points that really matter for visibility and smooth cornering with good visibility inbetween. If all that matters is A or B line then the visibility bit soons comes to crap.

    The most mindful position is the one where you can see to get the most info from and also the one where you can send the most info

    You will see the dayglo brigade stuck on the outside of sweeping bends when they can see for miles and stuck "out" from the last when they should be "in" for the next bend...

    PS "We've paid our road tax and entitled to be there..." My sentiments also "road tax is for ALL the road" If you have a tractor emerging from the left you sure as hell think it OK to use some of the right then if you can...

  4. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micky View Post
    The IAM don't like you using the other side of the road these days, but I say cobblers ... it's a real world out there and we're on motorbikes
    I was told to check with my examiner at the pre-test briefing he objected to my using the full width of the road. Thankfully Jon Taylor said it was fine. He did comment at the end of the test that he expected me to cross the centre line more after having mentioned it. I just pointed out that the 'conditions' had not been suitable for me to use the full width of the road on this occasion.

    The best bit of advice I was given for stringing multiple corners together was to ride the same stretch of road twice. Once treating each corner separately and breaking accordingly. Generally a game of dot-to-dot with the straights. Then string the corners together. Once you have sussed the second approach deliberately trying to do the first approach just seems stupid and takes a load of concentration
    BSA A7 SS 1961
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  5. #53
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    Contrary to Nigel's findings above, when I took my RospA test the examiner's pre-test briefing included:

    "On the open road, RospA expect you to remain inside the dividing lines, other than during an overtake. Where there are no dividing lines down the road, then there is no division........".

    I decided to follow the advice given to me by the examiner.... No harm for 45 minutes to follow the simple briefing as to what was being asked of me, I assumed.

  6. #54
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    thanks to all the artists and corner kings. this was exactly the sort of picture and discussion I was hoping for in my message in the riding skills thread. My IAM observer was quite explicit about looking ahead and linking bends, straight lining when appropriate. He said just don't cross the lines when cornering in the test and this wasn't difficult advice to follow. I reckon there are lots of really good IAM types who understand and follow Mickys advice so I think we should be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water ! Thanks again - why isn't this in the books ?

  7. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by davnjud View Post
    - why isn't this in the books ?

    Ummmmm, tricky to write up I suppose. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing and all that, there's nothing contraversial about using the offside but even amongst our tiny community we're hearing of different views and opinions. Some examiners / instructors say it's fine, some say no, some are undoubtedly corporate bods and some live in the real world! Imagine trying to write that in print and sell it WH Smith!!

  8. #56
    There is no Dummies Guide to riding a motorcycle since there's such disparity even amongst the 'experts' so IMO, it could only really be written following this general structure:

    1. Title
    2. Introduction
    a. Hypothesis
    b. Predicted Results

    3. Materials and Methods
    4. Observed Results
    5. Discussion

    a. Conclusions
    b. Implications

    6. Literature Cited


    From this, make your own decisions from 5a and 5b about how YOU want to ride
    KEA

  9. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timolgra View Post
    There is no Dummies Guide to riding a motorcycle since there's such disparity even amongst the 'experts'
    There is?
    There seems to be largely agreement from all "experts" on the vast majority of things.
    Sure there's some slight nuances between them, but for the most part people sing off the same song sheet. There's no radical differences that i have seen.


    For instance the biggest difference covered in this thread is whether to offside or not.
    Even those that advocate it make a BIG point over only doing so when there is a clear advantage from doing so otherwise it is seen as extremely dangerous. Those that don't advocate it IME do so because if not skilled in the technique the consequences of getting it wrong just aren't worth the chance of giving it a go. So the "difference" isn't really "do it/don't do it", more "worth the possible consequences/not worth the possible consequences"....

  10. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamA View Post
    So the "difference" isn't really "do it/don't do it", more "worth the possible consequences/not worth the possible consequences"....
    Is it ever?
    KEA

  11. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timolgra View Post
    Is it ever?
    Quite. ALL are probably in agreement there. No disparity.

  12. #60
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    Two little mottos of mine for training ... well not just for training, but for riding in general

    Is it safe?
    Is it to advantage?
    If the answer is yes to both those questions then we'll have a bit of it


    Never put your motorcycle anywhere your brain wasn't ten seconds earlier
    Adventure.GS
    Tours, training or custom made earplugs ... it's all here.

    "If you want the rainbow then you have to put up with a little rain" Dolly Parton

  13. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Micky View Post


    Never put your motorcycle anywhere your brain wasn't ten seconds earlier
    I used that very expression with a student this afternoon
    KEA

  14. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Timolgra View Post
    From this, make your own decisions ..... about how YOU want to ride

    I can't work you out!!!!

    You're an instructor, yet you bang this drum about common sense, been doing it for years, how YOU want to ride.. people have no common sense..'


    Some people want and need to be told how to do things. They want best practice, they want information.

    I agree with Adam. You could take a well trained rider (and for arguments sake lets take a copper) from pretty much any county in the UK, and they'd probably all have near identical riding styles. Why? Cos they've been taught to ride to a system, thats documented and has been in existance since the 1950's.

    We might have slightly different interpretations on one particular aspect (offsiding ..), but by and large we all do exactly the same thing.

    I have never skied in my life. But If I went for lessons I'd want some sort of clear set of rules. I don't want to be told 'use yer loaf mate, can't you work it out for yourself..' I'm not blessed with an abundance of common sense! I've just been taught well

  15. #63
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    Training teaches how the tools work.
    The common sense comes into play with choosing the correct tool from the box for a given situation.
    Those with little common sense use the same old tools without doing much thinking.
    Those with common sense use the appropriate tool from their collection, and are always on the look for more tools worthy of adding to to the box...

    Obviously an adjustable spanner can be used for a whole host of jobs but having the right tool for the job looks a tad more professional.

  16. #64
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    Ahh the myth of common sense. I hate to tell you guys but there's no such thing. All that means is to do what you'd do yourselves in any given situation.

    People actually prioritise sensory information in different ways. Those of us with acute vision and physical feeling, not to mention high IQs and the ability to process information quickly, probably make the best road riders.

    And actually....I don't want someone else's rules. I want to work it out for myself which is why when I read Micky's pages they were a breath of fresh air in amongst all the Roadcraft system stuff.

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