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Thread: Urban Riding

  1. #17
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    Thanks for your work in putting this together Giles, if it helps just one person to "improve" then its done its job.
    Thinking things through before they happen is surely the message here, so that we are able to translate into the Staying Alive bit.
    Some of the situations illustrated might look "bleedin obvious", but that is only because they come from the school of hard knocks or the University of Liffe.
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  2. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timolgra View Post
    I totally agree!
    Both on road and off road, for around 90/95% of the the time I cover the front brake (and clutch) with two fingers (I also find it comfortable), the throttle control will become excellent with practice.... like everything...
    Personally, I too agree with Tim and Schtum on this one. I ride with two fingers covering my levers and don't believe that I suffer any problems with throttle control. I find that if I fully grip the throttle it actually has the opposite effect for me and makes my control worse.

    Having said that, I've read all of your posts with interest and do take away many pointers and reinforcements of what I already know, but sometimes forget. So thank you

    David.

  3. #19
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    Very good advice, don't agree with all of it (two finger covering etc) but find I agree with most and use most of it daily.

    Look forward to more of these, thanks for taking the effort to put them up.

  4. #20
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    exellent stuff as usual giles do you work for rapid training perchance?
    ride safe g.s.john
    Born to ride now retired
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    Einstein said two things are infinate human stupidity and the universe but i am not too sure about the universe
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  5. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by g.s.john View Post
    exellent stuff as usual giles do you work for rapid training perchance?

    No I don't! But I'm pretty sure we're all saying the same sort of message!


    Re the braking debate.....


    That's cool!! It is a discussion forum after all, and the fact that some people say 'I don't agree' is good .

    I do cover my levers, when I'm off road, but I don't on road. I think the other threads have shown that there is always more than one way to skin a cat. Nobody would want a guide that sits on the fence about every thing now would they !!

  6. #22
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    yes you appear to be singing from the same hymn sheet i did a day with them and it was good i have been riding forty odd years and they opened my eyes to stuff that makes me a safer rider
    ride safe g.s.john
    Born to ride now retired
    Now mortgage free YEEHAAA
    Einstein said two things are infinate human stupidity and the universe but i am not too sure about the universe
    2007 R1200 G.S

  7. #23
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    I am not even sure how I brake

    I know over the years I have used four fingers, if for no other reason than some bikes I have owned required them (Plus standing on the rear brake and putting your other foot on the floor) just to gradually decelerate.

    I think I cover with two fingers, but am not sure, I know I do when approaching junctions, so probably do so round town, on the open road without junctions I am not sure. Will have to actually see what I do next time I am out as it has obviously become pretty much automated, or only costs 1 cent of my $10 dollars - to keep going on my Keith Code crusade.

    I think it is good advice, obviously many riders find their own way and generally if it works for them then great.

    Best practise sounds OK to me, perhaps "good practice" would sound better as best implies it is the only way to do it.

  8. #24
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    thanks

    as always Giles a great and informative post , whilst not ramming your opinions down peoples throats

    though some seem to get the wrong end of the stick


    this whole lane hogging thing does seem to be getting worse its almost as if the outside lane is the new inside lane

    im commuting through your manor for the time being and even if the three lanes of the M20 are clear these airheads are content to bimble down the middle lane forcing vehicles making progress to cross three lanes and back again, to stay legal


    still once again some great info thanks for taking the time and effort
    Dont Bogart that joint my friend, pass it over to me

  9. #25
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    Lots of great stuff again Giles and here is my 10p....

    I still love filtering even though I only get a chance "sooth" when away from 60N!

    Previously being a courier and riding traffic 7/10ths of the time is certainly a steep but good curve and all learnt by experience To be honest I miss mixing it a bit up here...

    Some of my simple mantra’s for traffic/urban riding and may have already been mentioned in one way or another...

    - Don’t ever feck with trucks/buses. You are either in front or behind but not stuck next to them. In moving traffic an artic will make a mess of you without them even noticing! Just have a quick size comparison between your GS and an artic wheel...
    - In heavy and moving traffic you always keep at a distance and position that will allow smooth transition from following to filtering with no dramatics. On single lanes this is usually back offside as mentioned. On motorways or dual carriageways this is usually ready to go between lanes. On a motorway it’s usually safer between lanes 2 and 3 as there are less trucks and usually a bit less movement between lanes.
    - Filtering stationary traffic is usually more dangerous than moving traffic as this brings into play pedestrians/side junctions and accentuates any speed difference.
    - Always filter from “space” to “space” and always plan ahead for the next. This stops you getting “stuck” on the outside of the traffic or without anywhere to go. If you are any good there will be not much change in speed but you will have somewhere to go if things change quickly.
    - Don’t filter up the arse of the bike in front for the immediate above reason. You “ride your own ride” even in traffic.
    - Always filter at a speed that feels comfortable and at a speed that you know you can execute a quick stop if necessary. Your bike control is up to you!!
    - Always let quicker riders past as they will piss you off in your mirrors and you will definitely piss them off!
    - Obviously filtering trucks etc leaves you “blind” so means lots of extra caution!
    - Follow moving dual carriageway/m-way traffic ready to go for the gaps and with plenty of forward vision as if the traffic stops quickly you will be ready to take to the “escape route” rather than caught “line astern” with the others and in danger of being rear ended by some dozy twat. I NEVER stop in a line of traffic if possible and only if I know what is going on behind. I also use some reflective stuff on the rear of the bike to wake up said dozy twats.
    - ALWAYS look for drivers eyes as if they are not looking at you they DEFINATELY haven’t seen you. You should take NOTHING for granted as peds/drivers can see right through you and if they are still moving there is still a chance! (Some cars might even see scaring you as a bit of fun!).
    - Use lateral movement as a wake up to drivers. If you move left to right across your lane you are giving yourself more safety distance anyhow from left junctions/crossing peds. Obviously visa-versa for traffic/peds on right.
    - If you stop at the head of the traffic at lights, go slightly ahead and don’t feckin’ stall on the get away!!

    - Zillions more and sorry for any repetition but knowledge is power etc and there are lots of ways of remembering things....

    Regarding covering brakes I don’t do usually as I trust my instincts to be correct but can after trials riding and if it suits you then fair enough. Regarding “undertakes” I only do it now if really pushed but usually don’t as if anything happens you are probably fecked in the eyes of the law. An A38 Exeter-Plymouth commute usually used to be all the cars in lane 2 with the odd truck in lane 1. I often used the “lane speed” theory but if you bomb up the inside and get twatted by a lane mover you’re in trouble.

    Re Rasher on braking... usually it varies according to your braking need but in dry weather any quick stop braking is still predominately front with a bit of back. Wet more balanced according to your bike.
    For traffic the clutch/throttle/rear brake technique for balance and slow changes of direction is a cracker and practice it to get your feet up balance off to a T. Aa quiet corner of a carpark is excellent training ground

    One BIG thing I learnt early is front skids on NON ABS bikes are obviously the most dangerous and learn to load the initial braking with an "ease" and then quickly progressively "squeeze". It's the 1st bit of emergency braking that causes the loss of control and crash! Too much front brake "grab"

    IF YOU HAVE ABS sudden and hard braking is OK as the ABS will react quicker than you.... just make sure it's working

  10. #26
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    Very interesting stuff, Quite takes me back to my days on the M6 in Cheshire. Still the same old accidents and driving problems as 20 years ago. Quite amazing how nothing changes. On the subject of undertaking. It was never considered as such provided there was a clear lane in between. Something so often seen as the third lane owners club drive nose to tail . Often its quite clear in lane one as well as two and I see no problem moving into lane one and if it happens to travel faster than lane three then thats fine. Always looking out for the late lane changers of course.
    I also happen to agree with you about not covering the front brake as a matter of course. as my old instructor used to say, If you are not going to use it , leave the fecker alone.. I dont feel too strongly about it though. I suppose if thats how you learnt............. Certainly wouldnt cover the clutch
    Not as if you are going to pull it in when you apply the brakes at motorway speeds. Dont drive a car covering the pedels do you
    Great stuff though and very well portrayed. well done.

  11. #27
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    One of the better things that happens now is that busy duals and m/ways are usually so dense with traffic that many people stay in lane and "go with the flow". That way a fair bit of the drama is taken out of it and sometimes your overtaking and sometimes undertaking without changing lanes. Seems to be that it's more the busy semi rural dual carriageways that people get the stick up their rear about not using lane 1 very much hence mention of the "Devon Expressway () and the A1....

  12. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by giles lamb View Post
    [BIts also common knowledge that when we're travelling on a main road, and we spot a car in a side road waiting to pull out, looking at the wheels (rotating or not) will detect movement much more efficiently than looking at the car itself.
    Beware of the fashionable chav add on bling of the spinning wheel trims.
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  13. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Steptoe View Post
    Beware of the fashionable chav add on bling of the spinning wheel trims.

    ..... Yes absolutely ... Fecking dangerous those things....!!!

  14. #30
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    thanks Giles great stuff - the bit about blind spots on trucks was very useful for me. wern't too many left hand drive trucks around when I started riding before my 30 year break so it was news to me that this is the greatest source of mway accidents. deffo keep clear from now on.

  15. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by pastyman View Post
    I also happen to agree with you about not covering the front brake as a matter of course. as my old instructor used to say, If you are not going to use it , leave the fecker alone.. I dont feel too strongly about it though. I suppose if thats how you learnt............. Certainly wouldnt cover the clutch
    Not as if you are going to pull it in when you apply the brakes at motorway speeds. Dont drive a car covering the pedels do you
    Great stuff though and very well portrayed. well done.
    Got to agree with you on that, as you are unable to release the throttle when you start braking. Well not unless you have eight fingers on the hand.

  16. #32
    Every body seems to have got their knickers in a bit of a twist about this one!!

    There are of coooooouuuurrrse times when I'm doing 2 mph and using my front brake. I don't do the hendon shuffle, and 99.9 % of the time stop with my right foot on the floor. Consequently I'll be using my front brake for the last yard or so. Similarly in heavy heavy traffic where we ride two yards .. stop.. ride two yards ..stop .. I'll take a series of sort of luna giant leaps for mankind strides with my right foot and stop the bike on my front brake. And like wise, 'cos of the right foot on the floor if there's an incline I'll hold it on the front brake and ride off ..
    But I don't ride around routinely with my fingers over my levers. If yer do - no problem!! (There is an argument that by a split second you'd probably react quicker to braking if you do cover them..). If you look at a hundred You Tube clips of all the riding skill competitions similar to those posted in the thread, you won't find one rider playing in the cones and covering his levers.

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