Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 33 to 48 of 60

Thread: Hilltop Motorcycles, Earl Shilton

  1. #33
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Leics
    Posts
    1,507
    Went out for a good run today, everything from M/ways, duels, single roads, played with the power "a bit" and managed 53 mpg, about same as before but much more responsive thru the gears, and very impressed with low down torque, bike feels so different now, nice one Geoff!

  2. #34
    Subscriber Click here to find out how to Subscribe
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Oxford, England
    Posts
    3,261
    Thanks for info, I am tempted just to stave off potential valve issues with the lean running, but will have to wait until warranty is up - by which time I will have decided if I am gonna keep it for a long time.

    At least mpg is about the same, was worried you would have found the richer running had killed fuel consumption.

  3. #35
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Leics
    Posts
    1,507
    What's warranty got to do with it, why wait till it's up?

    All you are doing is getting the best from the motor, which is still in BMW's limits! Just look at the spec for what they "say" they produce power and torque wise.... Mine afterwards is within their figures, it just proves that they don't always meet the said numbers from new!

    Of the bikes done the other week 3 were still in warranty

  4. #36
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Chesterfield, England
    Posts
    1,560
    Quote Originally Posted by Balders1450 View Post
    What's warranty got to do with it, why wait till it's up?

    All you are doing is getting the best from the motor, which is still in BMW's limits! Just look at the spec for what they "say" they produce power and torque wise.... Mine afterwards is within their figures, it just proves that they don't always meet the said numbers from new!

    Of the bikes done the other week 3 were still in warranty
    I understand what you are saying, and in an ideal world there shouldn't be a problem as you're just getting the bike to perform as it should, but unfortunately I believe it would be a quick and easy get out clause for BMW as far as warranty is concerned. As soon as they know it's been remapped they'll just say you're warranty's invalid, without even thinking of listening why you feel it shouldn't be.
    If I'm wrong, please let me know as I would be very tempted by this. Out of interest, how much does Geoff charge for this service?

  5. #37
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Leicester
    Posts
    58
    I was thinking about having my bike re-mapped after reading the thread, but after talking to a guy who runs an industry level motorcycle emissions facility, I've been put off. He was categorical that there will be no big gains anywhere for a standard bike. He didn't take the '20bhp' gains at all seriously. BMW would have spent a lot of time, with the best facilities and staff to get the standard tune to be the best compromise - he was very clear that if there was 20bhp more to be had, BMW would have had it! Tweaking fueling and ignition timing just isn't going to make such big differences unless there was a problem to start with.
    He did say that a certain amount of 'smoothing out' may be possible, but warned that the tune may be set to protect the cat at specific points - something you can't 'develop' on the spot.
    His overall recomendation was that if I changed my silencer, or removed the cat, then a re-map could be worth while, otherwise it's not worth tinkering.

  6. #38
    Subscriber Click here to find out how to Subscribe
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Oxford, England
    Posts
    3,261
    Quote Originally Posted by babble View Post
    he was very clear that if there was 20bhp more to be had, BMW would have had it! Tweaking fueling and ignition timing just isn't going to make such big differences unless there was a problem to start with.
    There is a problem - the emmisions laws!

    The correct AF ratio for optimum performance is 14.7

    For more on this read here:

    http://www.brighthub.com/engineering...les/15235.aspx

    I think GS run way out of these paremeters to comply with emmisions laws which are difficult to pass with the "old fashioned" air cooled engine.

    BMW cannot do any better without breaching laws, when you get your bike remapped you do not have such worries.

    Many owners also remove the Cats to free up the engine, again if BMW did not have to spend a lot of money fitting these clumps of precious metals to the detriment of power they would not, but thye have no choice - again we do and many owners choose to get rid of them.

    Due to the nature of the GS's engine it is probably one of themost responsive to a bit of tweaking compared to the typical Jap four which is much closer to ideal fuelling out of the crate.

    I think 20BHP is unlikely unless there was also some other problem, but cannot see why sorting the fuelling would not gain 5-10 BHP for most owners, with a decat and a race can maybe 15-20 is possible

    What tends to be more noticeable with a good remap is the "feel" of the engine, all my bikes that have had dyno work have felt much smoother to ride and more responsive in all gears and at all revs, which is nice regardless of the numbers on the dyno.

  7. #39
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Leicester
    Posts
    58
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasher View Post
    There is a problem - the emmisions laws!
    I don't think he would have forgotten - it's his job!
    I think the point is that emissions laws are not going hamper peak power by the suggested levels . You can't run an engine that 'way out' of optimum fuelling without making it very sorry. He said, similarly to you, that an extra 5bhp is the likely outcome.

    I ran an 1100S for a long time: Full remus exhaust, K&N, big snorkel, re-mapped chip etc etc. My friend ran a stock one at the same time - there was a difference, but mainly just the volume and fuel economy

    It seems (As the guys here have experienced) that there are improvements to be made in delivery through the range, and i'll be over to Shilton in a shot if I decide to get an aftermarket silencer, but a 25% power increase? If it sounds too good to be true.....

  8. #40
    Subscriber Click here to find out how to Subscribe
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Middle ENGLAND
    Posts
    59

    WELL PLEASED!!!!!

    Just would like to say a BIG THANK YOU to Jeff, i took my R1100RT (v plated) bike and had it remapped yesterday, WOW did it give the old girl a lift.... much more responsive through the gears and smoother.. Worth doing.... OH YES.. Many thanks Again Jeff
    Just a thought......

  9. #41
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Leics
    Posts
    1,507
    Quote Originally Posted by snerkler View Post
    I understand what you are saying, and in an ideal world there shouldn't be a problem as you're just getting the bike to perform as it should, but unfortunately I believe it would be a quick and easy get out clause for BMW as far as warranty is concerned. As soon as they know it's been remapped they'll just say you're warranty's invalid, without even thinking of listening why you feel it shouldn't be.
    If I'm wrong, please let me know as I would be very tempted by this. Out of interest, how much does Geoff charge for this service?
    They can't tell it's been remapped, even a dealer told me this!
    Geoff charges around £360, and considering I had a full Akro on my 08 GSA at a cost of £760 much cheaper and far more gains.

    No doubt someone will disagree, you either have it done or you don't!

    Ref Babble.
    Simple answer, don't have it done then. The gains are all made up, so are all the other posts on this subject, the graphs are hand drawn.....you mate is 100% right, so take his word for it.

    Funny how everyone who has had their bike remapped raves about it afterwards, perhaps it's a placebo effect!

    See Johno above, so he's wrong too

  10. #42
    Subscriber Click here to find out how to Subscribe
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Oxford, England
    Posts
    3,261
    I have had this placebo effect on various bikes, you get the same symptoms when upgrading suspension.

    Much as I would love to go down the Hilltop route I am thinking a Accelerator module would probably help enough to stop the bike running dangerously lean and smooth out the power a shade.

    On the other hand if I could easily find £360 I would get it done tomorrow, I would certainly take this route over a power commander, the Hilltop map on the ZZR definately gave a better placebo effect than the PC3 it replaced And Geoff drew a better shaped graph than the dynojet man

  11. #43
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Leics
    Posts
    1,507
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasher View Post
    I have had this placebo effect on various bikes, you get the same symptoms when upgrading suspension.

    Much as I would love to go down the Hilltop route I am thinking a Accelerator module would probably help enough to stop the bike running dangerously lean and smooth out the power a shade.

    On the other hand if I could easily find £360 I would get it done tomorrow, I would certainly take this route over a power commander, the Hilltop map on the ZZR definately gave a better placebo effect than the PC3 it replaced And Geoff drew a better shaped graph than the dynojet man


  12. #44
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Leicester
    Posts
    58
    Sorry Balders, I didn't mean to rain on your parade.

  13. #45
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Leics
    Posts
    1,507
    Quote Originally Posted by babble View Post
    Sorry Balders, I didn't mean to rain on your parade.
    No problem, we've all got our opinions, it's just I'm right.....

  14. #46
    Subscriber Click here to find out how to Subscribe
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Loughborough
    Posts
    15,340
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasher View Post

    The correct AF ratio for optimum performance is 14.7
    No it isn't. 14.7 is the ratio using petrol where there is sufficient air present to burn all of the fuel. It certainly doesn't give optimum performance.

    The stoichiometric point using modern ethanol laced fuels is actually lower (around 14).

    Optimum performance is around 12.8 - 13.2:1

  15. #47
    Subscriber Click here to find out how to Subscribe
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Oxford, England
    Posts
    3,261
    Yes, I think I got the facts a bit wrong

    I think there is a difference between technically optimum power (most efficient burn) and a driveable engine, hence the surging of the weak fuelling on the GS which I belive is around 14:1

    I know dyno software tends to show 12.5:1 to 13.5:1 as the upper and lower limits for setup (or at least I do now I have gone back and looked at all my old bikes Dyno graphs)

  16. #48
    07875 304772
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    South Leicestershire
    Posts
    12,649
    Just got back from a couple of hours at HillTop

    The new ignition maps put in by Geoff seem to have brought the bike to life

    Dyno run before :




    After :




    The red trace had quite a peaky torque curve, so Geoff flattened it out ( Blue) notice the difference ...

    Geoff said mine appeared to be the only GS in the country running rich

    Also appears that it has a US ECU fitted

    Anyway, the difference is very noticable.... instant pick up and a lot more driveability

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Anyone attending a Ride Out or Event organised through the UKGSer Forums does so at their own risk.
UKGSer.com or anyone organising an event posted here will not be held responsible in any way for damage or personal injury sustained while attending any such events.

Members attending any such event do so at their own risk.

The text, images, graphics, sound files, animation files, video files, and their arrangement on this Website are all subject to copyright and other intellectual property protection. These objects may not be copied for commercial use or distribution, nor may these objects be modified or reposted to other sites without prior written permission.

Disclaimer: Use or depiction of the BMW logo or trademark throughout this web site is for illustrative and editorial purposes only, and to the benefit of the trademark owner, with no intention of infringement of the trademark.

The UKGSer Forums may include adult content for which it cannot be held responsible. Your use of this website constitutes acceptance of the UKGSER network privacy policy

"Its about being a grown up hooligan - and if that means a dark visor, remus open pipe and a bit of speeding out of town then all well and good"