So, what would it take to tempt you to buy a new GS?
- Thread starter crampie
- Start date
the director
Registered user
......or in other words, show me all your cards first. Why not just advertise the best possible price that you can sell me something for (to include a modularisation all of the 'add-on' options such as extended warranty). That's what the dealer did that sold me my bike. No bullshit, no talking around the subject and can I have your business please.
derby dave
Registered user
why has it always got to be a personnel reply you come on the forum ask a question then want to give a PERSONNEL REPLY put your cards on the table your customers are dwindling my friend we want more for our bucks you are just testing the water to see what you have to part with 
i also got a crap trade in value on my adventure so i kept it and bought a Triumph BMW should do the same warranty/service contract thats on my wifes mini cooper no service/parts will EVER exceed £100 for the life of her ownership thats what i call a good deal and yes its a BMW
i also got a crap trade in value on my adventure so i kept it and bought a Triumph BMW should do the same warranty/service contract thats on my wifes mini cooper no service/parts will EVER exceed £100 for the life of her ownership thats what i call a good deal and yes its a BMW
bodge it
Registered user
I've had two 1200gs's and had no problem at all with both of them, 25,000 the first one and now 37,000 on the second. You could say the build quality is poor as both of mine look and looked like they had done the milage. That's because I ride every day, whatever the weather. Never get time to clean them properly as I'm out on my dirt bike at weekends.
However, I personally think that BMW should give them away for the amount of money they make on the servicing and trade in values.
Or they should at least have some kind of customer loyalty reward scheme, so that if you have had 3 or 4 bikes from them you get a discount on the trade in. I would love to buy a 2010/11 model but considering how much I loose because my milage is high, its not worth it. I could be changing bikes every two years and losing 5k every time. BMW have had it good over the last few years with a bouyant economy. Maybe in the next few years they may have to change tack.
Love my 1200 adventure but know its going to wear out eventually. May have to buy a scooter instead.
Ceri JC
Registered user
Firstly, let me preface my whining by saying that the F800GS is quite simply the best all round motorcycle in the world for my size/ability/needs. When it runs properly, it is near-perfect. There aren't many bikes that can fly down green lanes quick enough to overtake a proper 4x4, whilst carrying a week's worth of shopping in the luggage.
+1 on these 2 things.
I think the requests for a 10 year warranty are unrealistic. A 5 year, 100K miles warranty on the other hand shouldn't be. With this in place I would be vastly more keen to buy a new one and it shouldn't be unachievable given the reliability of the BMWs of old. New cars are generally more reliable than their counterparts a decade ago. Why are bikes, BMWs in particular, getting (so much) worse?
Reliability per hour of use on my F800GS has been worse than my £350 110cc chinese pit bike.True the pit bike is a cruder, less powerful and less mechanically complex beast, but it cost only 4% of what my BMW did.
Similarly, if any of the Japanese marques made an F800GS clone, that was even 90% as good as the F8 in performance terms, I'd sell the F8 tomorrow. Why, fundamentally, can the Japanese make bikes that remain reliable even when you are grossly negligent with service intervals and chuck any old oil and pattern consumables in? Whereas on the other hand BMW cannot make a bike that I really have any faith in, even if it goes to the dealership for every service and every part of the ownership costs almost double what the Japanese charge?
GSes are much less toys than 90% of other bikes. They're supposed to be ridden long distance, off the beaten track and in all weather conditions. Reliability should be a far, far higher priority than it is on say, an R1.
------------------------------
I appreciate the above are more things for you to take "up the chain" rather than be able to address yourself. In terms of things you might actually realistically be able to deliver in the immediate future:
- Chuck in an extra year's warranty free of charge.
- A genuine 3 year 0% finance deal (without boosting the price by a grand to fund/hide the charges).
- 1 year/24K miles' free servicing (to be redeemed at any UK BMW dealership).
If you could do all of the above and give a PX value that was only £500 less than the value of the client's bike in a private sale, I think you'd get a lot of new customers.
Me personally? I don't think there's much you could do, short of offering an S1000RR for something stupid like half price or bringing back the HP2 Enduro and selling it fully kitted out for £10K that'd get me to buy a new bike at the moment. The finance is clear on my F8, I no longer have to fully comp insure it, the biggest hit of depreciation is gone, the bike is tatty and high mileage enough that green laning it doesn't fill me with dread at scuffing up a pristine bike, the mechanical niggles seem to have died down for the moment and as a result, I absolutely bloody love it!
No way am I selling it: I will run it into the ground. The reliability of it between now and it going bang or reaching the point where it's no longer economic to keep fixing it* will determine whether I buy another BMW. Provided the reliability doesn't completely drive me away: If my girlfriend shows more interest in coming on the back for longer trips I'll buy a GSA. If I end up living in one place and not having a stupidly long commute, I'll get an S1000RR. If I continue to get more into Enduro, I'll buy a Husqvarna (sort of BMW).
*as well as the final mileage it has managed to hit when this occurs.
+1 on these 2 things.
I think the requests for a 10 year warranty are unrealistic. A 5 year, 100K miles warranty on the other hand shouldn't be. With this in place I would be vastly more keen to buy a new one and it shouldn't be unachievable given the reliability of the BMWs of old. New cars are generally more reliable than their counterparts a decade ago. Why are bikes, BMWs in particular, getting (so much) worse?
Reliability per hour of use on my F800GS has been worse than my £350 110cc chinese pit bike.True the pit bike is a cruder, less powerful and less mechanically complex beast, but it cost only 4% of what my BMW did.
Similarly, if any of the Japanese marques made an F800GS clone, that was even 90% as good as the F8 in performance terms, I'd sell the F8 tomorrow. Why, fundamentally, can the Japanese make bikes that remain reliable even when you are grossly negligent with service intervals and chuck any old oil and pattern consumables in? Whereas on the other hand BMW cannot make a bike that I really have any faith in, even if it goes to the dealership for every service and every part of the ownership costs almost double what the Japanese charge?
GSes are much less toys than 90% of other bikes. They're supposed to be ridden long distance, off the beaten track and in all weather conditions. Reliability should be a far, far higher priority than it is on say, an R1.
------------------------------
I appreciate the above are more things for you to take "up the chain" rather than be able to address yourself. In terms of things you might actually realistically be able to deliver in the immediate future:
- Chuck in an extra year's warranty free of charge.
- A genuine 3 year 0% finance deal (without boosting the price by a grand to fund/hide the charges).
- 1 year/24K miles' free servicing (to be redeemed at any UK BMW dealership).
If you could do all of the above and give a PX value that was only £500 less than the value of the client's bike in a private sale, I think you'd get a lot of new customers.
Me personally? I don't think there's much you could do, short of offering an S1000RR for something stupid like half price or bringing back the HP2 Enduro and selling it fully kitted out for £10K that'd get me to buy a new bike at the moment. The finance is clear on my F8, I no longer have to fully comp insure it, the biggest hit of depreciation is gone, the bike is tatty and high mileage enough that green laning it doesn't fill me with dread at scuffing up a pristine bike, the mechanical niggles seem to have died down for the moment and as a result, I absolutely bloody love it!
No way am I selling it: I will run it into the ground. The reliability of it between now and it going bang or reaching the point where it's no longer economic to keep fixing it* will determine whether I buy another BMW. Provided the reliability doesn't completely drive me away: If my girlfriend shows more interest in coming on the back for longer trips I'll buy a GSA. If I end up living in one place and not having a stupidly long commute, I'll get an S1000RR. If I continue to get more into Enduro, I'll buy a Husqvarna (sort of BMW).
*as well as the final mileage it has managed to hit when this occurs.
I've been thinking of buying a new or newish bike for the past few weeks. I was sitting in Pidcocks the other day looking at the new black 1200 with wire wheels. Nice looking bike but so expensive. I cannot shake the reliability issues with the 1200 either and that would bug me if I bought one.
The 800 models are nice and have a similar appeal to the Airheads (just not as rugged) but there's the problem with it not being a proper BM because of the engine layout. Now if they put a modern flat twin 800 in that chassis they would be onto something.
There's nothing in the BM line up that hits the spot for me.
The 800 models are nice and have a similar appeal to the Airheads (just not as rugged) but there's the problem with it not being a proper BM because of the engine layout. Now if they put a modern flat twin 800 in that chassis they would be onto something.
There's nothing in the BM line up that hits the spot for me.
If Rob's considering a new 1200, there's no hope for the rest of us
Look @ Bakerman, he declared his beat up 1150GS has more 'soul'
Ceri JC
Registered user
Sounds like you want something along the lines of this!
Pretty pricey and I'm not sure the long term reliability would be much better than the 1200, when used as a road bike.
If Rob's considering a new 1200, there's no hope for the rest of us
Look @ Bakerman, he declared his beat up 1150GS has more 'soul'
Bakermans a long haired hippy so doesn't count
You have to have an open mind JB. Looked at The Yam Tenere (still stuck to the dealers floor @ £14k) and the new Triumph (Bit twee). To be honest there's nothing out there that appeals apart from a Harley and I'm not prepared to pay stupid prices to have one. Nobody is making proper bikes any more.
I have, went there bought one and didn;t do it for me....................too sanitised
Nice 1100GS/RT would suit you
Actually I think a huge discount on a Yamaha when they finally realise no-one is gonna pay that amount of cash for them could tempt me.
I think a bit of modding could probably make the Yamaha a good bike and I would trust it not to go wrong every 5 minutes, nor would I feel the need to carry a huge haul of spares on every trip.
If they drop them to the £11k they should be I would seriously consider one, although a bit
as the question is what would get us to buy a new GS - even a drop of £3k would not get me to buy a new GS (or any other BMW in fact)
I appreciate the market research undeertaken by Crampie and it is nice that he asks what his (potential) customers want, however the real answer seems to be a reliable bike which is obviously a bit above his pay grade to arrange and what with the way shit rolls down hill and good ideas get buried trying to work their way up we are all out of luck.
Get a Yamaha franchise and maybe we can talk
I think a bit of modding could probably make the Yamaha a good bike and I would trust it not to go wrong every 5 minutes, nor would I feel the need to carry a huge haul of spares on every trip.
If they drop them to the £11k they should be I would seriously consider one, although a bit
as the question is what would get us to buy a new GS - even a drop of £3k would not get me to buy a new GS (or any other BMW in fact)I appreciate the market research undeertaken by Crampie and it is nice that he asks what his (potential) customers want, however the real answer seems to be a reliable bike which is obviously a bit above his pay grade to arrange and what with the way shit rolls down hill and good ideas get buried trying to work their way up we are all out of luck.
Get a Yamaha franchise and maybe we can talk
Crampie your a brave man for opening this can of worms!
All the points my learned Tosser friends make are very valid, most of them boiling down to prices, poor quality, expensive servicing, too many breakdowns etc and just not getting plain good old fashioned value for your money!
The quality has certainly taken a horrendous nose dive on the newer bikes, probably a lot of it due to eco- friendly water based paints whilst being better for the environment are absolutely rubbish at making the paint actually stick on the crankcase of your bike!
Having worked as a project manager in mass manufacturing for donkeys years, I can tell that the whole 1200 range smacks of a major cost reduction excercise by BMW, this is where the manufacturing costs are made cheaper ( self coloured plastics, more plastic injection moulded parts instead of metal assemblys, and less features on the bike as standard ) but you still maintain a high, or increased selling price, therebye increasing profit margins between manufacturing costs and selling price.
But I'm afraid to me the end product has suffered badly, even when new, they look cheap compared to the earlier model BMW's , Jeez you don't even get a poxy plastic cover over the starter motor now to make it look a bit tidy, how penny-pinching is that!
Your quote about getting a new BMW for £10,000 is unrealistic as well, by the time you spec a couple of options up you are heading towards £13,000 - without any luggage!! Way too expensive for what is in effect a simple two cylinder air cooled motorcycle, I just cannot for the life of me see that kind of money in them and think anyone who stumps this up is a bit crazy, and its not that I don't have the money, I could buy one cash tomorrow if I really wanted one, its just that for the finish and reliability issues they are worth no where near that price in my mind.
You need to be around the £9,000 - £9,500 mark including heated grips and ABS as standard fitments as a minimum, Oh, and while I'm on, put a half decent tool kit back in them again eh??
I was in a BMW dealer about a month ago, looking at an 09 plate Adventure, just under £10k when the salesman swooped and asked me if I was interested in it, "Absolutely not" I replied, and when he asked why, I pointed out to him that there was no paint left on the engine ( It was in a shocking state, all corroded and bubbled up, looked more fit for a scrap yard than a showroom ) also the frame and running gear were showing plenty of rust.
So then the salesman started making excuses for it - "No Fender extender", "rode all through the winter without washing it etc" so I said to him "What about that bike over there, and that one, ....and that one" The majority of the bikes in the showroom were in the same "moth eaten" state, I wouldn't give you £1,000 for it let alone £10,000.
My BM is 11 years old in June and it still looks as good as new, no paint has dropped off it and nothing is rusting, I didn't buy it cos it was fast or light or trendy, it was the quality that sold it to me, in fact as an engineer I can see places where the bike is "over-engineered" not assembled in the quickest way with the cheapest materials, but manufactured by engineers that in those days had great pride in doing it the best quality way first, with the cost being an almost secondary consideration.
So until BMW put that quality and pride back into their bikes, I'm afraid I won't be buying another one.
Sorry, but there you have it
All the points my learned Tosser friends make are very valid, most of them boiling down to prices, poor quality, expensive servicing, too many breakdowns etc and just not getting plain good old fashioned value for your money!
The quality has certainly taken a horrendous nose dive on the newer bikes, probably a lot of it due to eco- friendly water based paints whilst being better for the environment are absolutely rubbish at making the paint actually stick on the crankcase of your bike!
Having worked as a project manager in mass manufacturing for donkeys years, I can tell that the whole 1200 range smacks of a major cost reduction excercise by BMW, this is where the manufacturing costs are made cheaper ( self coloured plastics, more plastic injection moulded parts instead of metal assemblys, and less features on the bike as standard ) but you still maintain a high, or increased selling price, therebye increasing profit margins between manufacturing costs and selling price.
But I'm afraid to me the end product has suffered badly, even when new, they look cheap compared to the earlier model BMW's , Jeez you don't even get a poxy plastic cover over the starter motor now to make it look a bit tidy, how penny-pinching is that!
Your quote about getting a new BMW for £10,000 is unrealistic as well, by the time you spec a couple of options up you are heading towards £13,000 - without any luggage!! Way too expensive for what is in effect a simple two cylinder air cooled motorcycle, I just cannot for the life of me see that kind of money in them and think anyone who stumps this up is a bit crazy, and its not that I don't have the money, I could buy one cash tomorrow if I really wanted one, its just that for the finish and reliability issues they are worth no where near that price in my mind.
You need to be around the £9,000 - £9,500 mark including heated grips and ABS as standard fitments as a minimum, Oh, and while I'm on, put a half decent tool kit back in them again eh??
I was in a BMW dealer about a month ago, looking at an 09 plate Adventure, just under £10k when the salesman swooped and asked me if I was interested in it, "Absolutely not" I replied, and when he asked why, I pointed out to him that there was no paint left on the engine ( It was in a shocking state
, all corroded and bubbled up, looked more fit for a scrap yard than a showroom ) also the frame and running gear were showing plenty of rust.So then the salesman started making excuses for it - "No Fender extender", "rode all through the winter without washing it etc" so I said to him "What about that bike over there, and that one, ....and that one" The majority of the bikes in the showroom were in the same "moth eaten" state, I wouldn't give you £1,000 for it let alone £10,000.
My BM is 11 years old in June and it still looks as good as new, no paint has dropped off it and nothing is rusting, I didn't buy it cos it was fast or light or trendy, it was the quality that sold it to me, in fact as an engineer I can see places where the bike is "over-engineered" not assembled in the quickest way with the cheapest materials, but manufactured by engineers that in those days had great pride in doing it the best quality way first
, with the cost being an almost secondary consideration.So until BMW put that quality and pride back into their bikes, I'm afraid I won't be buying another one.
Sorry, but there you have it
Ross Dean
Registered user
I am going to take another tack and move away from the money. Most of the above points about quality and price are good but there are more important matters.
What has made me buy a new F800GS in March 2011? It is the memories of the times spent travelling on my pervious bikes (see the list in my signature below). Most of the good times travelling in the UK, Europe and Morocco have been on BMW bikes which have proved reliable and enjoyable to ride.
We fixate on the kit instead of the times the kit helps us to experience. If Ocean and BMW want to sell more bikes then concentrate on what the bikes deliver - the adventure experience. I do not mean another round of marketing blurb. I want to see real riding experiences, good and bad, of customers and BMW dealer staff alike brought to the fore using various media platforms. How about ‘a long way somewhere’ featuring BMW customers and no support teams – using existing and even new footage? Done with genuine spirit for the adventure of it all, it should bring potential clients to the showroom door. After that, the deals discussed above may come into play.
Of course, I volunteer to take part
What has made me buy a new F800GS in March 2011? It is the memories of the times spent travelling on my pervious bikes (see the list in my signature below). Most of the good times travelling in the UK, Europe and Morocco have been on BMW bikes which have proved reliable and enjoyable to ride.
We fixate on the kit instead of the times the kit helps us to experience. If Ocean and BMW want to sell more bikes then concentrate on what the bikes deliver - the adventure experience. I do not mean another round of marketing blurb. I want to see real riding experiences, good and bad, of customers and BMW dealer staff alike brought to the fore using various media platforms. How about ‘a long way somewhere’ featuring BMW customers and no support teams – using existing and even new footage? Done with genuine spirit for the adventure of it all, it should bring potential clients to the showroom door. After that, the deals discussed above may come into play.
Of course, I volunteer to take part
I am going to take another tack and move away from the money. Most of the above points about quality and price are good but there are more important matters.
What has made me buy a new F800GS in March 2011? It is the memories of the times spent travelling on my pervious bikes (see the list in my signature below). Most of the good times travelling in the UK, Europe and Morocco have been on BMW bikes which have proved reliable and enjoyable to ride.
We fixate on the kit instead of the times the kit helps us to experience. If Ocean and BMW want to sell more bikes then concentrate on what the bikes deliver - the adventure experience. I do not mean another round of marketing blurb. I want to see real riding experiences, good and bad, of customers and BMW dealer staff alike brought to the fore using various media platforms. How about ‘a long way somewhere’ featuring BMW customers and no support teams – using existing and even new footage? Done with genuine spirit for the adventure of it all, it should bring potential clients to the showroom door. After that, the deals discussed above may come into play.
Of course, I volunteer to take part
Your wish is their command.
Tiffany Coates. A person who epitomises adventure travel. Also a member of this parish. She's dropping in here on yet another trip, in May.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAUhV1r-kUo
http://www.tiffanystravels.co.uk
[I appreciate the market research undertaken by Crampie and it is nice that he asks what his (potential) customers want, however the real answer seems to be a reliable bike which is obviously a bit above his pay grade to arrange and what with the way shit rolls down hill and good ideas get buried trying to work their way up we are all out of luck.
Get a Yamaha franchise and maybe we can talk[/QUOTE]
Ha Ha!
Thanks for your appreciation - I find a helmet keeps most of the shit off my head! I do at least have a direct route to the manufacturer and ALL constructive feedback will be delivered in an appropriate fashion (but you can be sure that it is also being read on here anyway!).
Get a Yamaha franchise and maybe we can talk
[/QUOTE]Ha Ha!
Thanks for your appreciation - I find a helmet keeps most of the shit off my head! I do at least have a direct route to the manufacturer and ALL constructive feedback will be delivered in an appropriate fashion (but you can be sure that it is also being read on here anyway!).
A great post, have to admit the stock price is crazy.
As a 30 year old model, OK you could argue 7 years as the 1200, either way compared to the 2 yearly "new model" cycle of Jap superbikes BMW escape all of this huge R&D cost with monor updates and many parts dating back to before the war (possibly the first one)
To charge for the "comfort pack" is the first insult, a few hundred quid to get some heated grips and the "computer" - the sort fitted to nearly every other similarly priced bike on the market for free (not forgetting the fact the fuel gauge does not even work after you have paid extra for said "Computer")
At nearly £11k it is a good £2k overpriced, maybe if it was brilliantly engineered with FD's that really did last the life of the bike (100k+) comfort pack as standard and a 5 year warranty it would be worth £11k.
I could have bought a Sprint ST brand new with full luggage for £7995 last year, I suspect this bike is more expensive to manufacture and built to a better standard, my ZZR1400 cost me £7995 new in 2008, at the time a stock GS was £10k, the R&D Vs eventual sales must be tens if not hundreds of times more per unit than the GS and it looks far more complex to produce.
Drop them to £9k and throw in the comfort pack, reduce the other packs to £500 - £600 each (instead of £1k plus - I can buy a new bike for the cost of a couple of GS packs) and do deals on the luggage a point of sale (say £700 for cases and box) making a fully kitted GS cost about the same as the stock one now and about £3k less than the current fully kitted price and I think it would be a winner - notwithstanding a 5 year drive train warranty of course.
Crampie your a brave man for opening this can of worms!
Hey, if you don't ask.........
All the points my learned Tosser friends make are very valid, most of them boiling down to prices
believe it or not, we actually DO want to sell bikes but of course, we also have to make a profit. Summer vacations in The Hamptons don't come cheap you know....
expensive servicing
Personally speaking, we have one of the lowest labour rates in the entire BMW network (I know, I phoned around!) but even we (like others) do have offers on from time to time - free oil at service, free lunch in the cafe, etc. We're always prepared to do a bit of a deal so don't be afraid to ask.
too many breakdowns etc
As suggested earlier and believe it or not, the overall number of warranty claims and breakdowns is reducing, in spite of growing numbers of BMW bikes. I've no reason to mislead anyone - we get paid to repair bikes under warranty!
and just not getting plain good old fashioned value for your money!
I guess, as others on here have already intimated, it's probably not always just about the price but often how you feel about the whole experience that determines whether you're getting value for money. I know we don't sell the cheapest bikes and we don't have the cheapest servicing but we do offer a great facility with well trained (and well paid!) staff who are here to provide a first class service (most of the time!) for customers who, like all of us, ride bikes. We also have a lovely cafe with good quality coffee, clean toilets, plenty of bike parking, loads of demos, all the latest equipment, ATA technicians..... we don't operate from a dirty garage or shed in a back lane or on a dodgy industrial estate and can't offer you ridiculously low labour rates (which by the way, don't indicate just how much you might end up paying....) or run a knackered old 500cc runabout as a loan bike.
probably a lot of it due to eco- friendly water based paints
Having to use this type of paint is not unique to BMW.......
whilst being better for the environment are absolutely rubbish at making the paint actually stick on the crankcase of your bike!
Jeez you don't even get a poxy plastic cover over the starter motor now to make it look a bit tidy, how penny-pinching is that!
errr.....you got me on that one, I agree!
Your quote about getting a new BMW for £10,000 is unrealistic as well, by the time you spec a couple of options up you are heading towards £13,000 - without any luggage!! Way too expensive for what is in effect a simple two cylinder air cooled motorcycle, I just cannot for the life of me see that kind of money in them and think anyone who stumps this up is a bit crazy, and its not that I don't have the money, I could buy one cash tomorrow if I really wanted one, its just that for the finish and reliability issues they are worth no where near that price in my mind.
You need to be around the £9,000 - £9,500 mark including heated grips and ABS as standard fitments as a minimum, Oh, and while I'm on, put a half decent tool kit back in them again eh??
ahem!....there is more to the range than the BMW boxer you know! The entry level G650 starts at 5K....
I was in a BMW dealer about a month ago, looking at an 09 plate Adventure, just under £10k when the salesman swooped and asked me if I was interested in it, "Absolutely not" I replied, and when he asked why, I pointed out to him that there was no paint left on the engine ( It was in a shocking state
So then the salesman started making excuses for it - "No Fender extender", "rode all through the winter without washing it etc" so I said to him "What about that bike over there, and that one, ....and that one" The majority of the bikes in the showroom were in the same "moth eaten" state, I wouldn't give you £1,000 for it let alone £10,000.
If there was a bike here in that kind of condition, we wouldn't be happy to sell it. I must say however that, a lot depends on the care and attention the owner bestows on the bike. We can see two identical bikes of a similar age and with similar mileage that are in a completely different condition. Sure, you probably do have to take a little bit more care of the materials used to manufacture your bike now than you did years ago but a little bit of effort does go a long way.
My BM is 11 years old in June and it still looks as good as new, no paint has dropped off it and nothing is rusting, I didn't buy it cos it was fast or light or trendy, it was the quality that sold it to me, in fact as an engineer I can see places where the bike is "over-engineered" not assembled in the quickest way with the cheapest materials, but manufactured by engineers that in those days had great pride in doing it the best quality way first
So until BMW put that quality and pride back into their bikes, I'm afraid I won't be buying another one.
It IS BMW's mission to build desirability, reliability, technology and quality into every motorcycle. I think I have already said that they have made a concerted effort to right some wrongs over the years and having been to the factory I have absolutely no reason to doubt their commitment. I hope you'll soon begin to see the difference.
Sorry, but there you have it
Right, now I'm off to open a can of beans..
A wise (and very wealthy) man once told me how it took him years to build a great reputation for his business, hundreds of well done jobs, and as he expanded and employed others he was always aware that one shit job would destroy that reputation.
I think BMW spent 25 years building a tremendous reputation for the GS, and the 2004 1200 model destroyed it in a few months.
They may be improving but it has to be said pretty slowly, with 2008 / 2009 models still having FD problems at low mileages and no official support for the known problems, I have noticed they sometimes fix bikes under goodwill, but this is a lottery and one many owners are afraid they cannot afford to the point where several on this forum are selling up due to this very issue.
Something they could have easily done is stuck their hands up in the air, admitted to the problems and offered help with any FD / FPC / EWS failures, the factory gate cost of an FD can't be more than a few hundred quid, so why not offer 75%, 50%, 25% discount on any FD that fails at under 25k / 50k / 75k.
I bet someone is happy with the huge profits of selling £1500 FD's in huge numbers, and the warranty sales must be pretty good as people are scared shitless of not having a warranty - very short sighted profiteering.
The 2010 model could be every bit as good as any 1100 / 1150 but it will be years until this is proven (although the commitment to quality obviously did not extend to the fuel gauge).
A 25 year reputation cannot be rebuilt easily, trust in the product will take time, even for those that want to believe, for suspicous bastards like me it will take the full 25 years.
I really believed (prior to buying my GS) that the BMW's high costs were due to a better level of quality, service and support than that of Japanese machines.
I can even live with higher service costs for a nice clean waiting area with decent coffee AND confidence the work on my bike will be done to the highest standards by a skilled and qualified technician who takes pride in his work, but I still do not trust official BMW shops to do a better job than the mucky backstreet garage, especially those shiny showroom BMW Car / Bike places with hidden workshops.
I appreciate some dealers have been fighting for their customers when bikes have failed miserably after the warranty has expired, however this should not be a fight, the one thing BMW could do right now is offer a lot more help and support for current owners when things that should not got wrong f*** up.
Deleted account 210516001
Registered user
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2006
- Messages
- 5,306
- Reaction score
- 0
I believe that Renault, who are not renowned for their reliability, did a similar thing about 6 years back when their Turbos started blowing up prematurely. They reckoned that a turbo should last about 100,000 miles and any that bit the dust before that were replaced with the owner only paying for the percentage of the 100k that had been used.
The biker fraternity are usually better organised to share information amongst each other and I think the final drive reliability issue is now widely known, as is the premature corrosion problem. BMW gain nothing and stand to lose a lot in terms of customer confidence by failing to step up to the mark and go on the record about the help they will give to any owner who faces these issues when the vehicle is out of warranty.
Bakermans a long haired hippy so doesn't count
You have to have an open mind JB. Looked at The Yam Tenere (still stuck to the dealers floor @ £14k) and the new Triumph (Bit twee). To be honest there's nothing out there that appeals apart from a Harley and I'm not prepared to pay stupid prices to have one. Nobody is making proper bikes any more.
Tenere is good, more reliable than the 800 - just buy it cheaper.
Harley FXDX used has to be the best option
Similar threads
