So, what would it take to tempt you to buy a new GS?

Rasher said:

I think BMW spent 25 years building a tremendous reputation for the GS, and the 2004 1200 model destroyed it in a few months.

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There is an awful lot of bollox written on this forum but for talking out of your arse this must rate as one of the all time greats: pray tell, how did the 2004 1200 model destroy BMW's reputation and at the same time go on to become the best selling BMW model ever?

Rasher said:

A wise (and very wealthy) man once told me how it took him years to build a great reputation for his business, hundreds of well done jobs, and as he expanded and employed others he was always aware that one shit job would destroy that reputation.

I think BMW spent 25 years building a tremendous reputation for the GS, and the 2004 1200 model destroyed it in a few months.

They may be improving but it has to be said pretty slowly, with 2008 / 2009 models still having FD problems at low mileages and no official support for the known problems, I have noticed they sometimes fix bikes under goodwill, but this is a lottery and one many owners are afraid they cannot afford to the point where several on this forum are selling up due to this very issue.

Something they could have easily done is stuck their hands up in the air, admitted to the problems and offered help with any FD / FPC / EWS failures, the factory gate cost of an FD can't be more than a few hundred quid, so why not offer 75%, 50%, 25% discount on any FD that fails at under 25k / 50k / 75k.

I bet someone is happy with the huge profits of selling £1500 FD's in huge numbers, and the warranty sales must be pretty good as people are scared shitless of not having a warranty - very short sighted profiteering.

The 2010 model could be every bit as good as any 1100 / 1150 but it will be years until this is proven (although the commitment to quality obviously did not extend to the fuel gauge).

A 25 year reputation cannot be rebuilt easily, trust in the product will take time, even for those that want to believe, for suspicous bastards like me it will take the full 25 years.

I really believed (prior to buying my GS) that the BMW's high costs were due to a better level of quality, service and support than that of Japanese machines.

I can even live with higher service costs for a nice clean waiting area with decent coffee AND confidence the work on my bike will be done to the highest standards by a skilled and qualified technician who takes pride in his work, but I still do not trust official BMW shops to do a better job than the mucky backstreet garage, especially those shiny showroom BMW Car / Bike places with hidden workshops.

I appreciate some dealers have been fighting for their customers when bikes have failed miserably after the warranty has expired, however this should not be a fight, the one thing BMW could do right now is offer a lot more help and support for current owners when things that should not got wrong f*** up.

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I purchased three new 1200GSs and yes the 2005 one suffered the dreaded Attenna and fuel pump control failure: BMW sorted it out quickly and whilst I was pished off breaking down on such an expensive new M/C, it didn't stop me going on and buying a further two R1200GS: both of which performed faultlessly. If BMW are such a crap manufacturer why are they doing so well compared to just about every other manufacturer? If I were Crampy I would have started two threads: one for people interested in doing a deal on a new bike and one for people to talk about the failure of the best selling BMW ever and where it all went wrong for BMW

Even on this forum the general opinion is that 100's & 1150's are ultra-reliable and the 1200's are very unreliable.

Look at al lthe talk about issues and problems, it is all about the 1200, FPC / EWS / FD / Brake Controllers / Fuel Gauges

People happily buy high mileage earlier bikes with no concerns, with the 12's there is much talk of reliability by potential owners and discussuions over extended warranties due to the high level of fear about this poor reliability.

I have met a fair few K1300 owners who sold up and bought Jap bikes because they were unreliable dogs, back in the 70's / 80's you would consider a Jap bike high mileage at 40k and BMW's to be OK at double that.

I admit it is difficult to now exactly how many fail compared to those that don't, but the fact that some people have had multiple FD failures implies it is not all that rare, even if a poor 1/10 failed below 50k the odds of losing four in that time would be 10,000 to 1, however many owners have had that level of failures.

You don't see many 1100 owners who have had 3 or four final drive failures plus numerous electrical breakdowns, despite the bikes being older and higher mileage.

We all know sales were driven up massively due to the efforts of Ewan McGregor, McDonalds sell more meals than Raymond Blanc so I guess it must be much better quality food

The cost of plastic fairing washers for my ZZR was more per ounce than that of gold, so plastic must be a far more valuable meterial

Sales numbers do not indicate value or quality, look how many people invested in sub-prime mortgages - enough to f*** the economy the world over, lending money to those obviously incapable of paying it back seemed pretty bloody stupid to me, yet plenty of that action was sold.

Side by side with earlier BMW's I think the 1200 stacks up badly, a large number of common faults (most of which leave the owner stranded) with relatively high repair costs (that still do not guarantee it won't happen again sooon after) make it appear to me a bit of a lemon.

Even compared to Jap / Italian stuff it looks poor, I have never known anyone have an expensive failure re-occur four times on any other bike in the 25 years I have been riding.

Anyway I have waffled on quite enough, I have stated my opinions which have to be right asd they are just that, "My Opinions", others also seem to agree with the reliability concerns, which means they too are less likely to buy a new BMW because of this.

For me to seriously consider another BMW (especially a new one) I would need more confidence than I currently have in both the bike and the level of support offered via the dealer / manufacturer.

Crampie said :-ahem!....there is more to the range than the BMW boxer you know! The entry level G650 starts at 5K....

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Fair comment, but I think this thread and most people on this forum are more specifically concerned with the 1100 / 1150 / and 1200 range.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Bm and the posh dealerships with good coffee and the fact that you can get demo ride on the exact bike you like, and dynamically they ride very well, but its just when you get off them and stand back and look at them they look cheap and plasticky, I think "Nahh.....not worth almost £13,000"
Have to say that I think the R series roadsters have suffered even more on the penny-pinching side, £170 extra for a centre stand - yer having a laff BMW, it should be standard and I could be wrong here, but I've also heard you only get 1 key with them, a spare key costs you extra, and no toolkit!!

I would love to have a chat with some of the top engineers and marketing bods at BMW to point out to them that they are engineering out the quality and features that made people buy BM's in the first place

its hardly going to be the engineers, is it ?

its higher management and marketing and sales.

Sponorship.

I'm doing 25-30K a year on a 1200, BMW should be sponsoring me for testing their bikes.