ROSPA Vs IAM

I am sure this has been done before, but as I cannot find it I will ask again anyway, how do IAM and ROSPA compare?

I am planning to do one or the other (maybe both over time) and not sure if one is better suited to certain types of riders than the other.

I do not want to be too rigid and ride around the outside of bends on potholes / wet patches, or to not take advantage of a decent line (where visibility permits) because the "book says so" and neither do I want to have to drop the bike into 2nd at 60mph to skow down "to avoid showing a brake light" as I firmly believe brakes are for braking!

I know there are a lot of rumours about how silly the IAM is, and MartynH has assured me it is no longer like this (or never was) but a friend of mine rides with an IAM club (no names) where they do still smash their bikes down through the gears instead of braking. I don't want to spend £139 on the IAM to immediately fall out with my observer and have miserable time doing very counter intuitive things to pass the test.

On my Bikesafe course I spent the day with a ROSPA examiner and rode pretty similarly to how I normally would and he thought my standard was pretty decent (he would not tell me what he was on, but it must have been strong stuff)

I have to admit I am leaning towards ROSPA partly because of the day out with this chap, and also because the costs are considerably less, with the IAM it is a £139 all in price, with ROSPA it is £20 to join and £54 for the test, so almost half price, plus I only initially need to spend £20 to get started.

I am also unsure of standards, as the ROSPA test is graded (Bronze / Silver / Gold) I would hope to attain a Silver, but at least it is not an all or nothing affair, I get the feeling the IAM may have a very high standard (more like the ROSPA Gold) and therefore may take longer to attain or cost even more for re-tests.

The IAM lasts forever and the ROSPA requires a re-test every 3 years, but this is free if you keep up the membership (£20 per year) - but after 3 years the IAM mob will have got the extra cash back. But the re-test seems OK to me, and gives you the chance to better your last result (unless you attained Gold first time)

Anyone done both

I did ROSPA then IAM just to compare. For the IAM test I rode like cr*p (compared to putting my mind on the job) and I still passed. This to some point made my mind up and now I just do ROSPA, mainly for the re-test aspect as it keeps me on my toes at least once every three years. Either is better than none so pick which suits you and this may come down to wanting to join a local group etc as IAM have more choice.

Both use the same Police system of bike control.

Both have good guys and utter cocks as volunteer observers.

RoSPA's graded Gold/Silver/Bronze whereas IAM is a pass/fail. You'll need to re-take RoSPA every three years.

RoSPA publishes "Care on the Road" (their newsletter) that reads like "We Love Speed Cameras Monthly" As an organisation, RoSPA is profoundly pro-camera, pro-calming, pro-vehicle speed limiters and pro-blanket speed reduction. Argue with them and you get lots of "la la la can't hear you" in response. They're also inflexible about crossing hazard lines (so what?!) and a few other things. Bit of a Rulesworth HQ. However, this doesn't seem to filter through (too much) to the guys in the field (depending on who you get).

The IAM as an organisation is rather less binary and, to some extent, has a rather broader road safety viewpoint. They're happier to listen and are rather more sceptical about many of the compliance elements of NuLab road safety. They're still quite 'establishment' though.

But both organisations (in my opinion) do a top job. Observer quality (they're all volunteers) is variable across both, but get a good one and they'll change the way you ride for ever. In a good way

But, either way, get yourself a copy of Steve Hailey's Mind Driving. Best book on the mental processes underlying safe driving and riding there is.

MMC said:

RoSPA publishes "Care on the Road" (their newsletter) that reads like "We Love Speed Cameras Monthly" As an organisation, RoSPA is profoundly pro-camera, pro-calming, pro-vehicle speed limiters and pro-blanket speed reduction.

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IAM it is then

I really cannot stand all that bollox, we all know accidents involving speeding vehicles is pretty low, but the mixup is always with "excess speed" (for the conditions) If nobody ever speeded the best you could hope for is a 10% accident reduction, but add in the boredom factor of always driving well below what is safe and I reckon accidents could also go up.

If every driver / rider had to do a Bikesafe equivelant within 12 months of passing their test (and young car drivers had a 33BHP equivelant) I think accident rates would drop at least 25% - insist on IAM standards within 3 years and I reckon accident rates would be cut by over 50% (and those incapable of driving to a half decent standard would be taken off the roads)

I think many of us must be testament to speed not being the only factor, personally I have managed 25 years biking with just one off - and that was on a moped, the slowest vehicle I ever owned!

I want to drive / ride to my limits and the prevailing conditions / circumstances, not to what a sign tells me, I probably find myself below the speed linit as often as I do above it, in fact you could remove my speedo entirely and I would expect to be just as safe.

Just got to dig deep for £139 now.

I only know three people that have passed the IAM. - and two of those are complete idiots on the road.

Passing on blind hump back hills
Coming out of junctions without looking
All over the road
No consideration for other riders


So much so that I have even asked them - is this what the IAM have taught them

If so then I am not interested.

I would rather pay a large wad of cash and be taught by a police bike rider/ instructor

karlp said:

I only know three people that have passed the IAM. - and two of those are complete idiots on the road.

Passing on blind hump back hills
Coming out of junctions without looking
All over the road
No consideration for other riders


So much so that I have even asked them - is this what the IAM have taught them

If so then I am not interested.

I would rather pay a large wad of cash and be taught by a police bike rider/ instructor

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Doesn't sound like they've learned much! It's the old story, you can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

karlp said:

So much so that I have even asked them - is this what the IAM have taught them

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I doubt it, but just because someone knows how to ride safely does not mean they will.

I know my last stealers mechanic never bothered to use a torque wrench, I am sure when he trained at college this was on the curriculum.

You could say the same about every bad driver on the road, I am sure their driving instructors did not teach them to pull out in front of us all the time, swerve across the road without indicating and park on blind bends - does not stop them doing it once they have the piece of paper though.

Just a thought, but it really depends on what you want to achieve from the training. If it's just another tick in the box, either will probably suffice. If you want something in particular you may be better off looking elswhere.

Rasher said:

I doubt it, but just because someone knows how to ride safely does not mean they will.

I know my last stealers mechanic never bothered to use a torque wrench, I am sure when he trained at college this was on the curriculum.

You could say the same about every bad driver on the road, I am sure their driving instructors did not teach them to pull out in front of us all the time, swerve across the road without indicating and park on blind bends - does not stop them doing it once they have the piece of paper though.

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Agree totally

That is why a continual assessment in my view is much more worthwhile

MMC said:

But, either way, get yourself a copy of Steve Hailey's Mind Driving. Best book on the mental processes underlying safe driving and riding there is.

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Have to agree ,I bought that book a year or so ago. excellent

RoSPA is, in my opinion the way to go

I was in exactly the same situation 3 years back and decided to go down the RoSPA route. I went out with a serving Police observer who assesses riders for both RoSPA and IAM, for a ride who advised that the IAM pass is regarded as a similar level to good bronze/average silver RoSPA ride.

I also liked the idea of continuous improvement and re-assessment every 3 years. Keeps me on my toes and as a result I enjoy riding much more....

I know plenty of IAM riders who forgot all they learnt after a few months of passing their tests. They will never change as there is no need for them to.....

Contact both local groups (you may find that there isn't a rospa group that's particularly close as they can be spread out more than iam groups) and try and get a feel for them - see which one you prefer.

As said both will teach you the same thing; there are no real differences in that regard - but in my experience rospa can be more beardy than the iam (which takes some doing in itself!).

If you want a recognisable qualification then the iam one is normally accepted by insurance companies - rospa less so.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Motorcycle-...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1304175543&sr=8-1


essential reading.........learn the system........as far as I'm aware both use the system to a greater or lesser degree

dunno how the commentary goes on a bike........'today ,as all days, I will drive this vehicle according to the system of vehicle control...........'

ahhh memories........

In both the IAM and RoSPA there are good and bad Observers.

I'm an Observer with the IAM and I can assure you they certainly don't advocate taking a rigid attitude to the guidelines given e.g. "ride around the outside of bends on potholes / wet patches, or to not take advantage of a decent line (where visibility permits) because the "book says so" ", and neither should the local groups. In fact when selecting a position for view they say you need to consider Safety, Stability and View, in that order, i.e you do not compromise your stability (e.g. ride rough gravel or potholes) for a better view, nor do you compromise your Safety (e.g. put yourself too close to on-coming traffic) for a better view.

Nor do they state you do not use your gears to slow down i.e. "drop the bike into 2nd at 60mph to slow down "to avoid showing a brake light" ". They do suggest that you try using acceleration sense to allow engine braking to slow you down and then consider block changing to the correct gear to match your speed, e.g. to arrive at a lower speed limit without having to brake (though touching the brake to warn those behind you are slowing if need be). I suggest that my Associates try riding this way for a while to make them smoother, but on no account do I advocate never using the brakes, they are there for a reason.

Just because someone has passed their advanced test sometime in the past doesn't mean they are going to be a good rider. Far too many take the test and then don't bother applying what they've learnt anymore. I'm of the opinion that the learning process continues for as long as you continue to ride a bike. The IAM and RoSPA give you sufficient training to pass an Advanced test, this training contains the building blocks on which to develop your riding skills further, becoming a continually improving and safer rider. Taking into consideration my past Associates, some are really very good and have a natural ability, if they were to take a RoSPA test they would probably get a Silver and the odd one a Gold pass. Others don't pick up the techniques and skills as easily and, whilst I would never put them forward for the IAM test if they weren't ready, they would probably never do more than get a Bronze with RoSPA no matter how much work they put in.

It all depends what you want, both IAM and RoSPA training is based on Roadcraft so it is very similar. If you wish to be reassessed every 3 years and have your level of pass graded with a view to obtaining a Gold (which, I believe, is the highest civilian motorcycling qualification you can get) then RoSPA is the way to go. If on the other-hand you just want to pass an advanced test just the once, and you decide how much you wish to develop it further, then IAM is probably the way. Those that chose the IAM can always ask their local group from time to time to provide an assessment of their riding, this is something my group are about to actively start promoting.

It is worth checking out your local groups, both IAM and RoSPA, to see what they offer, not only from a training point of view, but also from the social aspect. if you wish to develop your skills further a good way is to join in the social side of things.

Whilst some may think I'm biased to-wards the IAM, I don't think I am, as I've done both. Last year I took my RoSPA test, I've never had any training from RoSPA, the skills I have are from my IAM time as an Associate and later as an Observer, just prior to the RoSPA test I was working to-wards taking my Senior Observer test with the IAM and decided to apply for the RoSPA test to see how I'd do. The test is one of the hardest I've done due to the shear concentration levels required to achieve the grade I wanted. I'll not say how I did other than I got what I wanted The hardest task I have now is trying to keep it every three years

Best of luck which ever route you choose.

Bob

I'll declare my affinity now - I passed my IAM test 5 year ago. BUT I don't want to say who is better than who, as I firmly believe that is all about perspective.

What I will say is that you should get yourself down to both groups and see what the individuals who attend are like and what they both have to offer.

If it is like a day at school you will probably hate it, attend once or twice and then give up. If it's fun with lots of opportunities for follow-on learning / improvement, then there will probably be something there to hold your interest.

If you've had a sample of ROSPA, then try your local IAM, they'll most likely be holding recruitment / try out days in the near future. Take one of their observed rides and see what you think.

As has already been indicated there are good and bad everywhere - it's how what you see fits with what you expect and what engages you the most that will be the deciding factor.

I think that following at least one form of advanced training is worthwhile, just as a reality / sanity chec, but equally I don't think you can have too much (unless it's poor quality).

Good Luck

Old-man said:

I did ROSPA then IAM just to compare. For the IAM test I rode like cr*p (compared to putting my mind on the job) and I still passed. This to some point made my mind up and now I just do ROSPA, mainly for the re-test aspect as it keeps me on my toes at least once every three years. Either is better than none so pick which suits you and this may come down to wanting to join a local group etc as IAM have more choice.

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Can you be more specific with the way you rode your bike like cr*p for your IAM test because if your Rospa training was upto scratch then you will always have your mind on the job whether your on a test or out on a social ride or commuting to work

Advanced Riding

Hi Rasher, Having experincing Advanced Riding for the last six years, i would strongly encourage you to have a go, it is tough to begin with! but wow, when you get the hang of the "better" way of riding, you get so much from your new riding.Best experinced from a Sports Bike Saddle

Raher,

What you want (in my opinion!!) is a good club. To me, it wouldn't really matter too much if it was IAM or Rospa, what's important is that you actually enjoy it.

When I was in my mid twenties, I was riding with similar aged blokes, we were a bit lairy on the road, (very fond memories of weekends away to Donnington and the like..) but whilst I enjoyed hooning with my mates, I also knew I wanted to improve.

So I joined my local IAM club. Everyone was very friendly, but I don't deny feeling a bit of a fish out of water for the first month or two. It was just a case of finding what I was looking for.

And he was a window fitter!! Steve.

He was brilliant - rode an R80, I was on a VFR 750, and he used to pi55 all over me! Constantly right place, right time and all that malarky. I'd go home to the girlfriend waxing lyrical about this bloke who rode a pile of shite and made me look like a clumsey oaf. Now that's what sparked it for me, If this guy could ride a vibey old tractor like that, then I wanted to learn how too as well!

And so it grew.. did the IAM test (examined buy a guy who is now a personal mate / work colleague and retires next month..), Rospa Gold a few months later and so on...

That's what you need. Find a mentor / observer who is good, who you get on well with and who ignites your fire

went the iam route to become a serv rider

Thanks everyone, some great advice there.

It does sound like either would do, however I do not want to support a pro-camera organisation, I hate the things (OK, they have a place outside schools, right next to dangerous junctions and I would love to see the rest of them moved to housing estates) but on the open road I think they do nothing apart from make cash, they certainly do not encourage roadcraft and probably detract from drivers using their eyes to see what other vehicles are doing when they are trying to work out if the van up ahead may have a camera in it, anyway going now.

IAM is sounding like a good bet, although I like the 3 yearly re-test and graded system it really is everyones own responsibility to keep up their skills.

I did notice on my Bikesafe course that I used the brakes much less just through riding slower, although I was not a morse code signaller even when riding the ZZR and "Making Progress" I did find just rolling off the throttle approaching 30 limits was not enough.

Changing down a gear or two will not stop a charging superbike - when you consider less than 10 seconds hard acceleration from 30mph can put these bikes at well beyond 150mph, and first gear is often good for over 80mph rolling off the throttle and knocking it down to 4th will not bring your speed back to 30 anytime soon. Perhaps back in 1950 or whenever Roadcraft appeared it was possible to rarely show a brake light - also braking can be fun, as well as being an important skill, I really do not want to get into a habbit of not using the brakes!

I am happy with my bike handling skills, I would love to be a faster and more talented rider, but if all of the Keith Code books, several visits to the California Superbike School (amongst others) have not bestowed me with Rossi beating pace then the IAM are unlikely to do so.

I know my limits and can ride within them all day long, I have confidence in my bike handling skills and have no particular worries, so all I really want is to polish my Roadcraft, I even know a lot of what I do "wrong" but I am unlikely toimprove unless someone / something forces me to do it better, hopefully by the time I do the test some of my bad habbits will be replaced by good habbits.

At the end of it all I stil want to be able to pick some sweet lines through a series of bends, "make progress" when it is safe to do so, work the throttle (and the brakes) hard from time to time.

I want to improve the way I ride - not try to ride like someone else as I do not think this ever works. The great Kenny Roberts once said one of his greatest regrets was trying to change the way Randy Mamola rode a bike. To me training is about adding to what someone already has going for them, not taking it away!

I have a reasonable toolkit that has kept me safe for over 25 years, I want to sharpen these tools and add a few new ones.