They will have no idea that you have had it remapped and no way of telling!
No cough ... no job
Remap by Hilltop Motorcycles
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They will have no idea that you have had it remapped and no way of telling!
No cough ... no job
They will have no idea that you have had it remapped and no way of telling!
No cough ... no job
Is it possible that during a dealer service, on connection to the diagnostic equipment, a routine update of the bike software could take place, over writing the Hilltop custom map?
I understand that my k1200s had a number of software 'updates' during various services as a matter of routine. I like the idea of a bespoke fueling map and would be willing to pay to have one created but could it be lost inadvertently?
Alan R
Had my 1150 undergo the hilltop remap over 12 months ago. I’d previously used a variety of fuelling mods with varying results including TFI, BB and PCIII. The TFI only allowed you to add fuel – which is fine if your bike is running lean but useless if the bike is running rich (mine was due to a high pressure fuel regulator). The BB chip includes something like 8 maps for a bike that isn’t your bike so not ideal although better than stock. The PCIII is a birds nest of horrible wires with cheapo connectors that quite simply aren’t up to all year riding – but works well when it doesn’t fail. As such an OEM ECU remap by Hilltop seemed like the ideal solution.
Power output after ECU remap matched that of a custom PCIII remap. But without the unsightly wires and no horrible connectors that fail every 500 miles. My output went up to 97bhp at the rear wheel – although the bike is running HC, gas flowed heads, race cams and a full system. Instantly noticeable power increase and so much smoother. IIRC I was charged £330 for the work which seemed like good value when compared to a PCIII and custom dyno time of £500 – or rather, it would have been good value if I hadn’t wasted a load of cash on the PCIII in the first place. The only downside is that you are limited to Hilltop if you require future remaps due to further work. If Hilltop cease to exist it would appear that you lose the ability to alter future mapping.
If the dealer should wipe your mapping, Hilltop keep you file on record allowing the ECU to be re-remapped – for a lot cheaper than the initial outlay.
IMO having lived with a remapped Hilltop ECU for the last 12 months I would say that it’s worth the spend but personally I’d get the basics done first i.e full system and air filter
Power output after ECU remap matched that of a custom PCIII remap. But without the unsightly wires and no horrible connectors that fail every 500 miles. My output went up to 97bhp at the rear wheel – although the bike is running HC, gas flowed heads, race cams and a full system. Instantly noticeable power increase and so much smoother. IIRC I was charged £330 for the work which seemed like good value when compared to a PCIII and custom dyno time of £500 – or rather, it would have been good value if I hadn’t wasted a load of cash on the PCIII in the first place. The only downside is that you are limited to Hilltop if you require future remaps due to further work. If Hilltop cease to exist it would appear that you lose the ability to alter future mapping.
If the dealer should wipe your mapping, Hilltop keep you file on record allowing the ECU to be re-remapped – for a lot cheaper than the initial outlay.
IMO having lived with a remapped Hilltop ECU for the last 12 months I would say that it’s worth the spend but personally I’d get the basics done first i.e full system and air filter
The dealer, and their diagnostic equipment can't over write what Hilltop do, they can't see in there, they can't see what has been done. It's locked, the dealer has no access
The dealer, and their diagnostic equipment can't over write what Hilltop do, they can't see in there, they can't see what has been done. It's locked, the dealer has no access
Not true. The dealer can overwrite the custom ECU remap with a standard map but they can't tell it's been remapped. If the dealer does overwrite the map, Hilltop can reflash it using a backup file of your custom map.
[/QUOTE]Originally Posted by Micky View Post
The dealer, and their diagnostic equipment can't over write what Hilltop do, they can't see in there, they can't see what has been done. It's locked, the dealer has no access
Not true. The dealer can overwrite the custom ECU remap with a standard map but they can't tell it's been remapped. If the dealer does overwrite the map, Hilltop can reflash it using a backup file of your custom map.
Two opinions, both stated with conviction as though definite and factual. Which is true?
If what DrAlf says is correct, one may ride away from a service thinking that the dealer has mucked it up and the bike is performing poorly in comparison to it's former, pre-service self, when all they have done is restore the standard map.
It would be useful to know if your expensive map is safe, or not?
Alan R
The dealer, and their diagnostic equipment can't over write what Hilltop do, they can't see in there, they can't see what has been done. It's locked, the dealer has no access
Not true. The dealer can overwrite the custom ECU remap with a standard map but they can't tell it's been remapped. If the dealer does overwrite the map, Hilltop can reflash it using a backup file of your custom map.
Two opinions, both stated with conviction as though definite and factual. Which is true?
If what DrAlf says is correct, one may ride away from a service thinking that the dealer has mucked it up and the bike is performing poorly in comparison to it's former, pre-service self, when all they have done is restore the standard map.
It would be useful to know if your expensive map is safe, or not?
Alan R
They could both be true, in part at least.
The map that's installed is probably not visible to dealer diagnostic equipment, although I understand that the ICOM A B C ISIS ISTA-P ISSS which replaced the previous GT1 can be completely in-house at the dealer or operate via the internet back to servers in Europe. Updates to the system are now normally done on-line via the internet.
However, my experience of having at least three or was it four different fuel / ignition maps installed as dealer updates on my first '04 GS would suggest that the dealership could overwrite the map installed by Hilltop or indeed anyone else who has the ability to flash the EPROM. I'd suspect that as in most vehicle ECUs, the BMW Motorrad EPROM has a flash counter and a maximum number of times that it can be flashed. Although Hilltop may well be able to reset that flash counter to 0 when they upload a new map.
I know for BMW cars that the dealers can overwrite the map and reinstall the original if the motor is running poor. Likewise, software updates that include an engine map will overwrite the Hilltop one. I would say that Canbus BMW bikes are the same. For cars, if this happens the tuners offer the remap free as it is kept filed for just an event like this.
For my BMW cars, I have never heard of a complete engine map being installed as part of the software updates when in service. These are usually for minor updates like controls or extra functions for radio/sat nav etc.
For my BMW cars, I have never heard of a complete engine map being installed as part of the software updates when in service. These are usually for minor updates like controls or extra functions for radio/sat nav etc.
Will scan & post the charts later but here are the numbers.
My bike was producing 80.34 bhp @ 7998.3 rpm and 68 Ft/lb @ 3794.3
After the remap and Geoff fine tuning the numbers are 103.48 bhp @ 7257.5 and 82.54 Ft/lb @5636.
So that's +23 bhp and + 14 Ft/lb of Torque.
The bike is transformed on the road. From a nice clean tickover to the lovely smooth torque. It will pull 6th from 2,500 rpm without hesitation and for best part... 6th gear roll on from 4,000 rpm all the way to court !!
For me it's the best upgrade you can make. My brother also had his bike done the same day. I will let him post his numbers and any comments if he wishes too.... but lets just say when we got back to Kent from Hilltop he was grinning like a Cheshire cat and could not stop laughing.
Couple of foot notes. Geoff's base run showed my bike was running very lean. He recommended fitting new spark plugs as he say the lean running plus the Dyno runs do hurt the plugs.
i believe that with cars (VW anyway), the dealer can detect altered ECU mapping by looking at the altered file size on the chip.
hello all
hi all let me start by saying i dont get a lot of time to get on forums so if i dont reply to the post please dont think im being ignorant ,so at this point i will introduce my self i am geoff from hilltop motorcycles ,so in reply to the concerns over warranty, the dealers do not have the ability to back read the engen magnet part of the ecu,the only one that has the ability to back read the ecu is the factory so i safe gard my firmware by putting a trigger lock on it, onley if the ecu sees a factory code from the factory it will reset to af actory std sate thus protecting your warranty and my forumware ,so a dealer cannot override the mapping or back read it in anyway with an up date ,if you need more info just give me a call on 01455 848522 .ps thank you all for the comments on my work it means a lot as i have invested a lot of time and cash in to factory ecu programing and engen management software design
hi all let me start by saying i dont get a lot of time to get on forums so if i dont reply to the post please dont think im being ignorant ,so at this point i will introduce my self i am geoff from hilltop motorcycles ,so in reply to the concerns over warranty, the dealers do not have the ability to back read the engen magnet part of the ecu,the only one that has the ability to back read the ecu is the factory so i safe gard my firmware by putting a trigger lock on it, onley if the ecu sees a factory code from the factory it will reset to af actory std sate thus protecting your warranty and my forumware ,so a dealer cannot override the mapping or back read it in anyway with an up date ,if you need more info just give me a call on 01455 848522 .ps thank you all for the comments on my work it means a lot as i have invested a lot of time and cash in to factory ecu programing and engen management software design
hi all let me start by saying i dont get a lot of time to get on forums so if i dont reply to the post please dont think im being ignorant ,so at this point i will introduce my self i am geoff from hilltop motorcycles ,so in reply to the concerns over warranty, the dealers do not have the ability to back read the engen magnet part of the ecu,the only one that has the ability to back read the ecu is the factory so i safe gard my firmware by putting a trigger lock on it, onley if the ecu sees a factory code from the factory it will reset to af actory std sate thus protecting your warranty and my forumware ,so a dealer cannot override the mapping or back read it in anyway with an up date ,if you need more info just give me a call on 01455 848522 .ps thank you all for the comments on my work it means a lot as i have invested a lot of time and cash in to factory ecu programing and engen management software design
Thanks Geoff, it's good to get information from the horse's mouth, so to speak. Often on this forum opinion is offered which the poster is convinced is fact when in reality it is a collection of half truths and wishful thinking.
I think your timely interjection into this thread may help persuade more owners to consider your services: I'm seriously thinking about it.
Alan R
Thanks Geoff for coming in and clearing things up.
Looking back at Micky’s before and after dyno graphs (from pg3 this tread) just shows what a difference remapping makes, these bikes run so lean to meet emissions regs it’s no wonder they run like a bag of cr*p.
Micky’s graphs for an F800GS single reposted below
Before
After
Looking back at Micky’s before and after dyno graphs (from pg3 this tread) just shows what a difference remapping makes, these bikes run so lean to meet emissions regs it’s no wonder they run like a bag of cr*p.
Micky’s graphs for an F800GS single reposted below
Before
After
Thanks for the update and graphs Reporter, I see a trip to Hilltop in my future, its only 120 miles, should be an interesting ride back
Thanks for the update and graphs Reporter, I see a trip to Hilltop in my future, its only 120 miles, should be an interesting ride back
I'm sure you will be very pleased with the results, it's like getting a new bike for under £400. Geoff is a decent bloke and totally honest about what he can and can't deliver from each bike.
I for one am very, very pleased by the results.
Thats alot of power to gain and the torque aswell.
spike
spike
SiBorg
Registered user
Me too - booked in for this Saturday morning (GS12 DOHC) with my mate (K13GT). It'll be interesting to see what he can do with both our bikes.
Would be great to see both bikes charts if you can.
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