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Thread: Suspension advice

  1. #1
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    Suspension advice

    Hey everyone!

    Welcome to the suspension section! On here you can ask anything related to the suspension of your motorcycle and get peoples opinions on how to change/improve your set-up etc!

    We'll be keeping an eye out on here regularly and will help with any advice we can give!


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    Hi,

    Can you give us your advice on what you feel the dynamic and static sag should be on a R1200GSA using non-ESA/WESA suspension?

    Probably the most imoprtant bit is how the measurements for the front Telelever are made. Would you measure the movement of the fork tubes, or from axle vertically up to say the front beak, or some other two points?

    I have seen many figures bandied around, but none for the front that explain where those measurements were made.

    I amasking because my Wilbers units were set up exactly as recommended, using spring preload figures, but that gave a large amount of dynamic sag ( 60mm fork tube movement and 80mm vertically for the rear axle). I have changed that to give me a 40mm dynamic at the front and 60mm at the rear to reduce the harshness; it is better but for from perfect.
    The only thing I am master of is my own destiny, and at best only half of it - the rest is entirely random.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ftrsuspension View Post
    Hey everyone!

    Welcome to the suspension section! On here you can ask anything related to the suspension of your motorcycle and get peoples opinions on how to change/improve your set-up etc!

    We'll be keeping an eye out on here regularly and will help with any advice we can give!

    Clearly not anything ... Care to advise what type of questions you are willing to answer and which ones you will not?
    The only thing I am master of is my own destiny, and at best only half of it - the rest is entirely random.

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    Static sag

    Firstly apologise for the delay to your question regarding your R1200GS and static sag.
    We recommend for the non ESA 15-25mm on the rear and 15-20 on the front end.
    If your planning to ride with a pillion or extra luggage for a long trip then more towards 15-20mm rear and solo riding more towards 20-25mm.
    Based on a rider of 85-95 kg and a pillion 70-80kg approx.
    Again apologise for the delay.

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    Questions

    We will answer any suspension related questions as quickly as possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magwych View Post
    Clearly not anything ... Care to advise what type of questions you are willing to answer and which ones you will not?
    Quote Originally Posted by ftrsuspension View Post
    Firstly apologise for the delay to your question regarding your R1200GS and static sag.
    We recommend for the non ESA 15-25mm on the rear and 15-20 on the front end.
    If your planning to ride with a pillion or extra luggage for a long trip then more towards 15-20mm rear and solo riding more towards 20-25mm.
    Based on a rider of 85-95 kg and a pillion 70-80kg approx.
    Again apologise for the delay.
    Ha ha

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magwych View Post
    Clearly not anything ... Care to advise what type of questions you are willing to answer and which ones you will not?
    Give them a break
    JohnnyBoxer



    So many roads...........So little time......

  8. #8
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    Sag

    With regards to rider sag we have found that between 55-65mm is a good start for the rear.
    With the front sag (static ) we measure shock length or travel but if you we're to measure along the chrome tube ( stanchion ) then this will be around 40-50mm.

    This subject will always be a debate and there will always be a varied opinion on this but always the best starting point is BMW's recommendation and to how they are set from the factory. Then there is the varies in riders weight and if out of the standard spring range the sag measurements should be again within those parameters. Then there is the changes in payload pillions, luggage and all the great extras that can be bought for these motorcycles this will increase the weight to the motorcycle which will change the balance of the bike.

    Also in our experience some customers prefer a different feel to the balance of the bike which will sometimes require different sag measurements but most of our customers want the combination of comfort and and stability.
    So within these guidelines this will give a good balance of the R1200GS

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyBoxer View Post
    Give them a break
    In one

  10. #10
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    The most important part of suspension is having the correct spring rate for the motorcycle and the correct sag guidelines. So it is important that this is always the first tuning item for the requirements of the rider / pillion and the type of riding it will be used for. Majority of our customers with these models carry passengers and luggage to go travelling which is what BMW is designed for so once the correct set up for solo we always advise to make small changes to sag when riding with pillion and luggage to regain good balance of the motorcycle.

    We will reply to questions quickly as possible! Just getting used to the Forum activities

  11. #11
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    Hi guys, thanks for your replies. Is there any difference
    between the dynamic and static sags you use on the 1200GS and 1200 GSAdventure models?

    For the front, what are the numbers you use when measuring the front shock movement - on the Adventure model?

    As you say the key is getting the spring rate right, that's why I am trying to get this right to check my spring rates...

    All up I am 98 Kg, which puts me on the cusp between Ohlins recommended rates. I guess in a few days time I will definitely need the higher rate :-)

    I am currently on 150/55 Front and Rear, but it feels so harsh when riding over obstacles such as sunken manholes and distorted motorway expansion joint. There are two of the letter on the A20 which will unseat me at any speed over 60MPH
    The only thing I am master of is my own destiny, and at best only half of it - the rest is entirely random.

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    we always recommend a little more sag on the GS ADV compared to the Regular GS because the Adv has more travel.

    For the 1200GS i would recommend static around 20mm and with rider ( dynamic ) around 55mm for the rear. and for the front static around 40mm and 50mmmm rider sag for the front.

    For the 1200GS Adv i would recommend static 35mm and rider 65-70mm with rider for the rear. and around 40 static with 55mm with rider for the front.

    For your weight i think the standard spring is fine just double check the sag against the measurements above. For the harsness open the rebound damping adjuster half a turn anti clockwise if the sag is correct! the rebound adjuster has a small effect of compression and should make those road bumps a bit more comfy. but then make sure that the rebound is not to open as after the bump it may continual to pump around. I have always found that the rebound more open will give a better ride especially over bumps.
    for big pot holes can sometimes be a uncomfortable so if you are in the lower end of the sag measurements you can have 5-8mm more sag which will help but without compression adjustement on the standard shocks is always a trade off.
    hope this helps.

  13. #13
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    As a guide line these are what we recommend for spring rates:

    Rider weight 80kg + 60kg GS rear 140Nm front 50Nm
    GS Adv rear 150Nm front 55Nm

    Rider weight 100kg + 60kg GS rear 150Nm front 58Nm
    GS Adv rear 160Nm front 60Nm


    If you can obtain the correct rider sag but too little static sag then you need to increase spring rate.
    If you can obtain correct rider sag but too much static sag then you need to decrease spring rate

  14. #14
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    Any advice re the R100GS-Paris Dakar? Are the standard rear shocks THAT bad, and are the Hagons (which I have) much better? The front forks, standard Marzzochi on mine. OK as they are or progressive springs and are some progressives better than other makes? Any re-valving needed and what fork oil is recommended?

    I am not that unhappy with the standard set up, and have probably no intention of going off road but if it can be improved for little outlay, I am interested. Ta.

  15. #15
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    For your R100GS i would recommend similar sag to the 1200GS.

    static sag rear 15-25mm
    Rider sag rear 50-60mm

    depending on budget the Hagon ( in my opinion ) is a small benefit. as a direct replacement from standard then perfect.
    I would always recommend an aftermarket suspension product that has a development with BMW like Wilbers, Ohlins, WP, Yacugar and HyperPro. These are all big suspension producers that have dedicated engineers that have continual development departments for manufacturer like BMW.

    Progressive spings for the front end of your R100GS are a great up grade and with a good quality 10wt oil will improve the front end feel! depending what the rate of progression the springs are? what manufacturer are the springs?

    With regards to revalving there is nothing to revalve as they are what is called an Visciousity damping fork and do not have a cartridge so it relies on the oil Vi to create damping, so the spring supplier would of calculated the best progressive rate in combination with the oil Wt.

  16. #16
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    Thanks FTR, I appreciate all your advice. Once it stops raining I will give your settings a go. So, that will be sometime around March I guess

    It could be that after 4 years and 90,000 miles the Wilbers are finally on their way out.

    Have a great Christmas and all the best for the New Year
    The only thing I am master of is my own destiny, and at best only half of it - the rest is entirely random.

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