K1600GT major recall?

This has been a absolute horrible experience for me and I’m off bikes for a while till I feel different.
BMW used 2 separate lawyer firms to fight this me, I have been accused for 8 month now that this is my problem and no one elce has the same issue with this bike. They kept saying this is trait of the bike and it’s normal.
Experience BMW motorcycles / BMW Motorad are a complete disaster they did everything necessary to fight me. All I wanted was my money back and that it!

My father always said keep away from European vehicles. He was right!
If I do get another bike in the coming years it would be a Kawasaki concourse or Honda ST.

Chris
 
I wonder how much BMW Motorrad NZ involved the Fatherland. Often it appears to be down the the specific countrys Motorrad office to sort it out.

Anyway I bet heads will roll as this is very bad publicity for BMW. Would have been cheaper for them to stump up with a full refund at the beginning.
 
Outtomunch said:
Out of interest, for those that have ridden both, how much worse is the backlash compared to a R1200 as they can be pretty bad if you're ham fisted?

Andres
Click to expand...

The K I had (for 1500 miles) had no backlash, the drivetrain was very good in itself, the sudden clunk was a total surprise - a WTF moment, very disconcerting.... It lower gears with moderate throttle. I let NOG know about it. If it were my machine, I would want it fixing. Why? Because it sounded very expensive and a potential transmission failure - with me on it doing xxMPH. No thank you :rob
 
BMW hasn't "lost"

The Dealer has lost the court case; not BMW NZ and not BMW Motorrad (Germany).

Question - is BMW NZ owned by BMW Motorrad or is it an independent importer?

BMW NZ has helped the Dealer to fight the case (and hopefully will sort something out with them), but the fact is that it is the Dealer that now has to pay back the customer and BMW Finance NZ (probably a separate entity from BMW NZ).

People often mistake the Dealer for the Importer/Manufacturer; Chris is the Dealer's customer, not BMW NZ's.

The Dealer is actually the Importer/Manufacturer's customer and they might now have to fight to get THEIR money back from the Importer


If the model IS clunky, BMW NZ and possibly BMW Motorrad have now spent lots of time/money (making our next bikes cost more) trying to silence a customer like Chris, when they should have built a good product in the first place.

Then again, if all K1600GTs do it, then they all did it when test-ridden/chosen as a purchase....some characteristics are annoying, but if that is how the thing is made and always behaves, AND this is what the customer accepted at purchase, then you can begin to see why they fight so hard.

BMW Motorrad will point to thousands of other K1600GT customers who have NOT complained as evidence that the "problem" does not exist. Example - whatever happened to all the Servo brakes fuss about 5 years ago? No recall there.

It's the faults that develop later that are easier to deal with; there is clear evidence that the function is different from that chosen at purchase and different from identical bikes.

What is interesting is that one might expect a Premium Brand like BMW, with their flagship model involved, to have been more helpful throughout. Chris's comment that he has been the accused for 8 months is not how you build a Premium Brand. Well done Chris for fighting it to the bitter end.

The crucial factor now is - will others be succesful in rejecting the bike and will this affect used values?

A
 
If this an enginneering error/fault and there is a problem with the drive train how much has crossed over to the new WC 1200 ? As it now has its drive train on the same side as the 1600 how many compoments have been shared? Lets face it the current model has "fun" with its final drive.
 
andysdad said:
The Dealer has lost the court case; not BMW NZ and not BMW Motorrad (Germany).

Question - is BMW NZ owned by BMW Motorrad or is it an independent importer?

BMW NZ has helped the Dealer to fight the case (and hopefully will sort something out with them), but the fact is that it is the Dealer that now has to pay back the customer and BMW Finance NZ (probably a separate entity from BMW NZ).

People often mistake the Dealer for the Importer/Manufacturer; Chris is the Dealer's customer, not BMW NZ's.

The Dealer is actually the Importer/Manufacturer's customer and they might now have to fight to get THEIR money back from the Importer


If the model IS clunky, BMW NZ and possibly BMW Motorrad have now spent lots of time/money (making our next bikes cost more) trying to silence a customer like Chris, when they should have built a good product in the first place.

Then again, if all K1600GTs do it, then they all did it when test-ridden/chosen as a purchase....some characteristics are annoying, but if that is how the thing is made and always behaves, AND this is what the customer accepted at purchase, then you can begin to see why they fight so hard.

BMW Motorrad will point to thousands of other K1600GT customers who have NOT complained as evidence that the "problem" does not exist. Example - whatever happened to all the Servo brakes fuss about 5 years ago? No recall there.

It's the faults that develop later that are easier to deal with; there is clear evidence that the function is different from that chosen at purchase and different from identical bikes.

What is interesting is that one might expect a Premium Brand like BMW, with their flagship model involved, to have been more helpful throughout. Chris's comment that he has been the accused for 8 months is not how you build a Premium Brand. Well done Chris for fighting it to the bitter end.

The crucial factor now is - will others be succesful in rejecting the bike and will this affect used values?

A
Click to expand...

Yes it may be the dealer that has lost the actual case but BMW is ultimately involved.

Customers are not now going to boycott Experience BMW and flock to other BMW dealers in NZ to purchase their K1600.

The big question is if this case will influence the purchases of K1600GT worlwide in which case it is a BMW problem.

Interesting point about the new WC 1200.

I must admit this attitude/approach by BMW has made me reconsider the brand and if my next purchase should be something different.

Bottom line is the K1600 is more money than a lot of cars.

Toyota dealt with their issues professionally and have come out of the problems with hardly any impact on sales - infact I believe they increased sales.

Will the same be said of BMW - only time will tell
 
Chris, Welcome to the forum and well done for having the courage to take it to court and a great result for you.

I have had BMW bikes for 42 years now, have 3 in my garage now and they are my preferred make, i have tried most of the rest.

No doubt they have made a huge mistake taking this case to trial and it will cost them dearly.

There is no way I will be buying any model bike, until it has been proven to be reliable.

A thank you to all those willing to buy new and be the test donkeys:thumb
 
I test road the 1600 and certainly noticed the clunk. With further research I found that to reduce clutch effort they have clutch springs that are not powerful enough to accelerate with out slipping thereby providing the slipper function on deceleration. When accelerating, there is an actuator that presses the clutch plates together to stop the slipping. Part of the clunk is the actuator engaging on acceleration and disengaging on deceleration.
 
karlp said:
Bottom line is the K1600 is more money than a lot of cars.

Toyota dealt with their issues professionally and have come out of the problems with hardly any impact on sales - infact I believe they increased sales.

Will the same be said of BMW - only time will tell
Click to expand...

It's to do with culture, my bet is that the Germans will never admit to a problem with anything

Whereas the Japanese will 'fall on their sword', be contrite and sort it out


That is for one reason, I buy Japanese 4 wheeled vehicles
 
JohnnyBoxer said:
Whereas the Japanese will 'fall on their sword', be contrite and sort it out


That is for one reason, I buy Japanese 4 wheeled vehicles
Click to expand...

Must admit beginning to think the same way European manufacturers seem to have the wrong attitude, the buyer/driver/rider must be at fault and will do the most to prove it too. Next car is likely to be either Toyota or Honda probably the later.
 
I came across the following last night as I was idly browsing an old copy of the BM Owner's club journal (March 2012). It's a report of comments in "Motorrad" magazine by a German owner of a K16GT. The owner happens to be a gearbox designer with Porsche

"Issue 03/2012 [of "Motorrad"] carries a report from one of the first owners of a K1600GT that now has 22,000 km on the clock. Interestingly, the gentleman, [...], is a gearbox design engineer for Porsche in Stuttgart and criticises his K for clunky engagement of first gear, for randomly noisy and then quiet gear-changes, frequent jumping out of gear, constant whine from the primary drive and tram(!)-like noises in fifth and sixth gear.

However, nothing annoys him more than the constant clonking from the drivetrain as the throttle is rolled on and off. “It is a challenge for the designer of a dog-clutch, constant mesh gearbox to minimise the effects of the necessary free-play in dogs. The Kawasaki GTR and Yamaha V-Max show how it should be done”, says D. In contrast the motor is a peach, fuel consumption is better than expected, the chassis handles every occasion with aplomb and the Metzeler Z8 tyres offer plenty of grip. "
 
Feature or Fault?

Just an update:

BMW New Zealand has instructed Experience Motorcycles Limited to address any drivelineor clutch complaints in the following manner:

The BMW K1600gt GT/GTL does not have a transmission/clutch faults etc… . but rather than it is a ‘Feature’ of these models.

And one would assume that BMW Mottard has instructed all dealers throughout the world to follow the same line also.

So I would like to know what your opinions are on this matter…..Feature or Fault?
 
chris couling said:
Just an update:

BMW New Zealand has instructed Experience Motorcycles Limited to address any drivelineor clutch complaints in the following manner:

The BMW K1600gt GT/GTL does not have a transmission/clutch faults etc… . but rather than it is a ‘Feature’ of these models.

And one would assume that BMW Mottard has instructed all dealers throughout the world to follow the same line also.

So I would like to know what your opinions are on this matter…..Feature or Fault?
Click to expand...
FAULT. It would interesting to request BMW to put the noise "FEATURE" in their brochure and marketing blurb and see how that spins out !!!!!!!!!!!
 
edwgordon said:
FAULT. It would interesting to request BMW to put the noise "FEATURE" in their brochure and marketing blurb and see how that spins out !!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
PS......... might be a good idea to ASK them BMW to point out WHERE in their BROCHURE is this feature listed
 
chris couling said:
Just an update:

BMW New Zealand has instructed Experience Motorcycles Limited to address any drivelineor clutch complaints in the following manner:

The BMW K1600gt GT/GTL does not have a transmission/clutch faults etc… . but rather than it is a ‘Feature’ of these models.

And one would assume that BMW Mottard has instructed all dealers throughout the world to follow the same line also.
Click to expand...

How on earth can they do that, after you won your specific claim in court? :confused:
chris couling said:
So I would like to know what your opinions are on this matter…..Feature or Fault?
Click to expand...


Sounds like a fault, though admittedly I haven't ridden one.

Nor will I now, until it's publicly sorted :thumb2

EDIT......We know that BMW watch/read this forum, so I hope they are taking notice.

Great bikes BMW , but sort out the frigging problems!! :rob

PS once you have, I'll be happy to conduct a long term test ride on one, which I promise I will report back on honestly and faithfully :thumb
 
I did a couple of hundred miles on a dealer demonstration K1600 last wednesday.....I'd already read about this case, and yes, there was a disconcerting clunk at slow speed occasionally, but apart from the noise it didn't seem to affect anything. As they say in the case, not what you expect when you pay that sort of money, but it's still a fantastic bike....effortless power and comfort.....and on a damp roundabout that I know well, it actually gave me more confidence than my 1200adv ;)
 
Hmm, This has got me spooked

Smug said:
Clunk click every trip:D

http://www.nzlii.org/cgi-bin/sinodisp/nz/cases/NZMVDT/2012/126.html?query=chris+bmw

Not fit for the purpose and a full refund.

Clunk worse when riding at less than 45kph in 3rd or 4th gear:blast

What do you reckon?
Click to expand...

Hi All, John here. first post
It's with some dissapointment that have read these posts re 1600GT
I went into BMW South Bank last Saturday to have a look at a GT.
I'll hopefully be test riding one soon.
I'm bikeless at the moment and have been since July 2001 when I put on 80,000KM on a R1100RT in 2 yrs.
I now, have a strong itch to get back into riding.
My RT required $1800 Gear Box rebuild with Tapered bearings (if i remember correctly) at 50,000km
I dont know the engineering challenges in designing/creating a gear box, but the Clunk noise it made when putting it into gear always bugged me. I often thought I had bought a Lemon.
In looking at the 1600GT there's 2 changes of direction between the Power source and the rear wheel. (No1 Engine/Gearbox to output shaft and No2 Driveshaft to Wheel. Thats a lot of scope for play in the drive. I wonder what this system will be like at 100,000km
After reading Mr Couling's case and many others I have to say, I'm spooked.
If I bought a GT would I be in the same boat. (i'm aware there different issues to what mine had.) Whats with Bmw bikes having clunky Gearboxes?
Is it a german thing? Do they like the clunk factor? or are thay incapable of making a smooth refined Gearbox? Surely not
Well done Mr Couling for standing your ground and not having your mind changed by anyone. And having the Fortitude and Integrity to see it through. I can see why BMW choose the path they did, but now, Here I am, a potential buyer, apprehensively about to take a test ride on a GT. And seeing a lot of GT's on cycletrader.com with very low KM's, and Demo GT's with only 1000KM on the clock for sale. The question I'll be asking is "Can I take a 10,000km test ride"?

John
 
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