Magdalene Laundries - another Church scandal

Why?

Where they completely unaware of it, or the proactive movement of accused priests to other areas to hide their paedophilia?

A religion that 'forgives all sins' and then considers them wiped and not subject to the law, then moves the person to another place, is just condoning it IMO, although they can argue until they're blue in the face that it's only for their imaginary friend to judge that person.....sorry, bollocks......nobody is above the law...the pope should be tried for leading a paedo ring :rob (and hung too.....I'd love to see a proper pope on a rope)

Every single person who has put a copper coin in a collection plate in a Catholic church, with the full knowledge of how their church actively hides away paedophiles, is guilty of supporting a Paedophile institution, in my opinion.:mad:

I realise that that you are entitled to your opinion. And I agree with your position as regards the revulsion of Clerical Sexual Abuse within the Catholic Church or any other church for that matter. But not all of the Catholic Clergy are involved in child abuse.
It is not a religion that "forgives all sins" or all sinners either.
Members of the Catholic Church are not beyond the reach of the Law of the land if fact, quite a number of them end up behind bars. But this should be till the day they die in my view!
As for your view of hanging the Pope, well I've heard of him being kicked or seen pictures of him being burnt on bon fires, I don't think that would help, (in my opinion).
As regards hiding people who abuse children, I hope that it is a thing of the past. However and I'm not trying to take away the spotlight from Priests, paodophile's are in all walks of life. If we are to believe the fact that one in four children are abused then quite a lot of the people we know are abusers or have been abused.
As you put it my coin will be going on the plate next Sunday as usual, in the knowledge that the church I am bringing my son up in, is now one of the safest places to send a child.
When it comes to schools, leisure centres, scouts, or even motorcycle meets then I will have to think more carefully.
 
Any why not Peter?

Every ordained priest who doesn't stand up, or speak out against the hierarchy and what they have done in this country is helping to maintain that organisation. Let them have the courage to challenge the status quo within the catholic church. Good point Aidan and I agree, but your previous statements have included all Clergy. Interestingly your view is exactly that of the present day Roman Catholic Church

Fuck the lot of them. May lead to more problems




I really can't believe that you can say that. With the history that the catholic church has in this country? Come off it.
We can all learn from history. Thats the whole point of studying it. There will be more scandals to come. Oh and its not just this in this country. And not just in the institutional churches, thats only the tip of the iceberg

Aidan we probably agree on most of this topic however I'm just a little more careful not to universally tar all priests. There is a lot of good being done out there and it takes a brave man/woman to follow their beliefs into lifetime commitment in any church these days. God willing the next generation will be able to sort this mess out, ours has messed up big time
 
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Not entirely...................but it is 'of the people'


You can't tell me everyone in the State turned a blind eye - from the janitor, to the council workers, to the maintenance men................right up the people's representatives at the Dáil Éireann

Johnny that is an interesting observation, I know what I'm about to type doesn't make sense in todays world but I cannot stress how much power and influence the Catholic church had in Ireland up until relatively recently.
In my opinion this power and influence manifested itself through fear.
My parents had a child prior to getting married, she's 13 months older than me. She was given up for adoption. They got married 4 months later.
My father said in (his) justification that if it was known that he had a child out of wedlock he would have been 'ruined'.
How crazy does that sound today.
My older sister reconnected with us about 25 years ago and it hasn't been a fairytale story.

I see what Aidan said above but I happen to believe that there's a few good ones.

It fucking disgusts me though how the church has such a malevolent effect on our wee country.
 
I see what Aidan said above but I happen to believe that there's a few good ones.

It fucking disgusts me though how the church has such a malevolent effect on our wee country.[/QUOTE]

Well said that man.

Any chance this will become a biking forum agin in the near future?
 
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Johnny that is an interesting observation, I know what I'm about to type doesn't make sense in todays world but I cannot stress how much power and influence the Catholic church had in Ireland up until relatively recently.
In my opinion this power and influence manifested itself through fear.
My parents had a child prior to getting married, she's 13 months older than me. She was given up for adoption. They got married 4 months later.
My father said in (his) justification that if it was known that he had a child out of wedlock he would have been 'ruined'.
How crazy does that sound today.
My older sister reconnected with us about 25 years ago and it hasn't been a fairytale story.

I see what Aidan said above but I happen to believe that there's a few good ones.

It fucking disgusts me though how the church has such a malevolent effect on our wee country.

Sorry to hear that Chief and thanks for the insight of how powerful the Irish Catholic Church was

I have an Irish girlfriend, so i'm learning slowly a bit more about Ireland and she also tells me how it was back in the 70's and 80's, i'm sure in the 50's and 60's it was far more sinister

She tells me about the power of the parish priest and as always they had good and bad ones, the good ones were superb - really caring and fine upstanding men.............however the bad ones were............not very very nice - suffice to say. Even though people were poor and in hardship - they still had to put into the Plate and donations made public at Mass

The Catholic church still seems popular, despite all this furore - last Aug I was leaving early on a Sunday am to catch the Belfast ferry, as I approached the small border towns, on my way to Enniskillen there was a mad flurry of activity at about 9am, loads of cars about and then it dawned they were off to Mass and every church I came across was packed with cars and folk
 
I was born in 1952 into a catholic family in what was then a catholic state; by that I mean that the state handed control of education & health care (to a large degree) to the catholic church.
As I was instructed in that churches moral code there was really only one big sin & it revolved around human sexuality. If I had a € for every time I was warned against impure thoughts I'd be a much wealthier man today.
As I matured (many of you are smirking now) it struck me as strange that I could indulge all sorts of sharp practice generally but as long as I remained "sexually pure" the road to heaven was fairly straightforward.
Of course human biology kicked in & I slowly broke through the repressive ceiling that the church & the society it prospered in represented.
In loosing my religion I knew some great priests & still do. I have little time for the instutional church but would not rush to tar all its members with the same brush.
Aidan makes a fair point above, the abusers were actively sheltered & moved around & silence prevailed.
Cause, effect & context are complex. The abusive church sat comfortably in the Irish society as it then existed. When I might step out of line as a kid my da would say to me "stead on there boy or you will end up in the monastery". By monastery he meant the industrial school; my da is still gladly with us & he agrees that it was widely known that gross abuse was handed out there - the physical abuse was known, the fact that celebate men (& women) got sexual gratification was less apparent then but is now acknowledged.
Each sucessive enquiry now elicits great surprise & a "if only we knew" response. It was known that so called "fallen girls" or girls likely to "fall" [that euphamestic term "fall2 sums up the generally sexually repression] were locked up & used as skivvies to protect the moral purity of holy Ireland.
There is little to proud of looking back on it but to exclusively blame the church I left is letting the state & wider society off the hook. That is the way it was then - grey, repressive, hypocriticial. I'm not sure if the church created the culture or if the culture grew the church - the church certaintly was a prime factor & bears huge responsibility.
We have moved on a bit - do we live in a perfect society now?
Will the pursuit of material wealth in a moral vaccum be seen in years to come as being also corrosive but in a different way.............................
 
I was born in 1952 into a catholic family in what was then a catholic state; by that I mean that the state handed control of education & health care (to a large degree) to the catholic church.
As I was instructed in that churches moral code there was really only one big sin & it revolved around human sexuality. If I had a € for every time I was warned against impure thoughts I'd be a much wealthier man today.
As I matured (many of you are smirking now) it struck me as strange that I could indulge all sorts of sharp practice generally but as long as I remained "sexually pure" the road to heaven was fairly straightforward.
Of course human biology kicked in & I slowly broke through the repressive ceiling that the church & the society it prospered in represented.
In loosing my religion I knew some great priests & still do. I have little time for the instutional church but would not rush to tar all its members with the same brush.
Aidan makes a fair point above, the abusers were actively sheltered & moved around & silence prevailed.
Cause, effect & context are complex. The abusive church sat comfortably in the Irish society as it then existed. When I might step out of line as a kid my da would say to me "stead on there boy or you will end up in the monastery". By monastery he meant the industrial school; my da is still gladly with us & he agrees that it was widely known that gross abuse was handed out there - the physical abuse was known, the fact that celebate men (& women) got sexual gratification was less apparent then but is now acknowledged.
Each sucessive enquiry now elicits great surprise & a "if only we knew" response. It was known that so called "fallen girls" or girls likely to "fall" [that euphamestic term "fall2 sums up the generally sexually repression] were locked up & used as skivvies to protect the moral purity of holy Ireland.
There is little to proud of looking back on it but to exclusively blame the church I left is letting the state & wider society off the hook. That is the way it was then - grey, repressive, hypocriticial. I'm not sure if the church created the culture or if the culture grew the church - the church certaintly was a prime factor & bears huge responsibility.
We have moved on a bit - do we live in a perfect society now?
Will the pursuit of material wealth in a moral vaccum be seen in years to come as being also corrosive but in a different way.............................

Quite superb words Gerry, rational and thought provoking. I applaud you :clap:clap
 
I was born in 1952 into a catholic family in what was then a catholic state; by that I mean that the state handed control of education & health care (to a large degree) to the catholic church.
As I was instructed in that churches moral code there was really only one big sin & it revolved around human sexuality. If I had a € for every time I was warned against impure thoughts I'd be a much wealthier man today.
As I matured (many of you are smirking now) it struck me as strange that I could indulge all sorts of sharp practice generally but as long as I remained "sexually pure" the road to heaven was fairly straightforward.
Of course human biology kicked in & I slowly broke through the repressive ceiling that the church & the society it prospered in represented.
In loosing my religion I knew some great priests & still do. I have little time for the instutional church but would not rush to tar all its members with the same brush.
Aidan makes a fair point above, the abusers were actively sheltered & moved around & silence prevailed.
Cause, effect & context are complex. The abusive church sat comfortably in the Irish society as it then existed. When I might step out of line as a kid my da would say to me "stead on there boy or you will end up in the monastery". By monastery he meant the industrial school; my da is still gladly with us & he agrees that it was widely known that gross abuse was handed out there - the physical abuse was known, the fact that celebate men (& women) got sexual gratification was less apparent then but is now acknowledged.
Each sucessive enquiry now elicits great surprise & a "if only we knew" response. It was known that so called "fallen girls" or girls likely to "fall" [that euphamestic term "fall2 sums up the generally sexually repression] were locked up & used as skivvies to protect the moral purity of holy Ireland.
There is little to proud of looking back on it but to exclusively blame the church I left is letting the state & wider society off the hook. That is the way it was then - grey, repressive, hypocriticial. I'm not sure if the church created the culture or if the culture grew the church - the church certaintly was a prime factor & bears huge responsibility.
We have moved on a bit - do we live in a perfect society now?
Will the pursuit of material wealth in a moral vaccum be seen in years to come as being also corrosive but in a different way.............................

Thanks too, a very good insight & spoken as it was :)
 
Not entirely...................but it is 'of the people'

I reckon most people in Ireland are ashamed of this and other abuses by the catholic church supported by the state.

This is shown by how many in Ireland attend mass in the country. I cant give an exact % but it is low. People only use the church for traditional ceremonies like baptism, holy communion, weddings and funerals.

While some small rural communities still attend church it is more out of habit and fear ot non attendance being noticed.

the church in Ireland is a shadow of its former self.

People in Ireland are vociferous in their condemnation of state and church.

Priests and nuns are no longer involved in most schools whereas they were a staple of them.
 
I reckon most people in Ireland are ashamed of this and other abuses by the catholic church supported by the state.

This is shown by how many in Ireland attend mass in the country. I cant give an exact % but it is low. People only use the church for traditional ceremonies like baptism, holy communion, weddings and funerals.

While some small rural communities still attend church it is more out of habit and fear ot non attendance being noticed.

the church in Ireland is a shadow of its former self.

People in Ireland are vociferous in their condemnation of state and church.

Priests and nuns are no longer involved in most schools whereas they were a staple of them.

:thumb

That would explain the packed carpark of rural churches and villages, that I saw when I rode through last year on a Sunday morning, whereas it was the opposite once I entered Ulster
 
My grandmother was one of these women, I know nothing of how things were for her in Thomastown Co Kilkenny. My Dad stayed in the home until he was 14. He was looked after by Sr Malachy. He went to see his mother every Sunday who by now had moved to Ballyragget in north Kilkenny. We as his children were not allowed in the house she made us line up along the wall outside until he was finished his visit. We then went back to the laundry to see Sr Malachy she wasn't allowed out but just stayed in a door way waving at us as we played in the grounds. My Dad & she would chat for a wee while and then we would go visit my other grandmother a short distance away. We'd play, get hugs have great fun before we set off home again. My brother was called after Sr Malachy, the only time any of my family spoke to her was to tell her of my fathers death and she wept openly. My guess is my dad was treated very well, I can't comment on my grandmother. His only wish was to have his own home with his children and his wife around him. I think I'm lucky Sr Malachy raised my Dad I got a loving caring man as my Dad. Not someone damaged by the church.
 
My grandmother was one of these women, I know nothing of how things were for her in Thomastown Co Kilkenny. My Dad stayed in the home until he was 14. He was looked after by Sr Malachy. He went to see his mother every Sunday who by now had moved to Ballyragget in north Kilkenny. We as his children were not allowed in the house she made us line up along the wall outside until he was finished his visit. We then went back to the laundry to see Sr Malachy she wasn't allowed out but just stayed in a door way waving at us as we played in the grounds. My Dad & she would chat for a wee while and then we would go visit my other grandmother a short distance away. We'd play, get hugs have great fun before we set off home again. My brother was called after Sr Malachy, the only time any of my family spoke to her was to tell her of my fathers death and she wept openly. My guess is my dad was treated very well, I can't comment on my grandmother. His only wish was to have his own home with his children and his wife around him. I think I'm lucky Sr Malachy raised my Dad I got a loving caring man as my Dad. Not someone damaged by the church.

A story of hope fulfilled Johanna. Beautiful.
 
I was listening to women speaking on 'liveline' today, if anyone's interested I'm sure you can listen from the net on podcasts?!

Rte 1, Liveline, joe Duffy.

It will give an insight into the way it was here, the fear and the narrow mindedness. I am still staggered sometimes by the beliefs some Catholics hold! Sometimes totally unreasonable and certainly not Christian:(

My brother married a Protestant in a Protestant church. My mother wanted a Catholic priest to concelebrate the marriage so as they would be married in the eyes of 'our God' too. My brother was happy to go along with her request. He spoke to the Catholic priest who asked if they would rear any children as Catholics. My brother replied that he wasn't sure if they wanted children but that if they had any that his mrs would be looking after the religious end of things as she was more committed than he. So the priest refused to concelebrate the marriage. My brother didn't care, my mother went mental! She told my brother that he should have lied and said he'd rear children catholic:confused::confused:

In her eyes it was preferable that he lie to the priest in order to be 'properly married':nenau

My mother was 52 at the time and is quite a reasonable person for the most part! I was and still am amazed at how brainwashed she is betimes:blast

It's very easy for us to wonder in this day and age how people didn't question anything. Have a listen if you can( I'm very incompetent with computers so can't provide links etc.) to today or yesterday's Liveline. Possibly Monday and Tuesday too:thumb
 
They're still trying to control things by censoring priests who dare to speak on issues that their masters would rather they didn't. There have been quite a few Flannery, Fagan, O'Sullivan etc, but the most famous surely is Fr Brian Darcy who has been censored for having the temerity to speak about women priests, why US Catholics were leaving the church, why the church must take responsibility for clerical child sex abuse, and homosexuality.

Ah, that'll be the new era of transparency within the church so. :rolleyes:
 
They're still trying to control things by censoring priests who dare to speak on issues that their masters would rather they didn't. There have been quite a few Flannery, Fagan, O'Sullivan etc, but the most famous surely is Fr Brian Darcy who has been censored for having the temerity to speak about women priests, why US Catholics were leaving the church, why the church must take responsibility for clerical child sex abuse, and homosexuality.

Ah, that'll be the new era of transparency within the church so. :rolleyes:

Don't forget to include Bishop Pat Buckley or Mother O'Connor.
And what about married clergy while we are at it, married Permanent Deacons introduced almost 6 years ago in Ireland but no one as yet has taken that on, Maybe you should apply Aidan before you get too old (there is an age limit). Oh and the influx of Anglican clergy into the Roman Catholic Church some even bringing their wives too.
Or the big question of why married men can become Catholic Maronite priests.
Homosexuality - whats up there then? I don't know another Christian Church who openly welcomes homosexuals so much. Whilst other "Christian" main stream churches are damning them to hell - yet a celibate homosexual man can become a Catholic priest! So much of this stuff is so misunderstood by the non practicing "Catholic" community. There is an open invitation to join the Catholic Church just as the door is open to leave. If it was any other religion many of the these people would have been kicked out. Pity some of the them wouldnt grow a set and start their own church - Oh yes thats why we have such diversification within the christian churches already.
The problem always come down to it the crux of the religions is a great idea - always messed up by human beings:blagblah:blagblah
 
The point is that someone like Darcy who is very popular with young and old alike and shows the church and priesthood in a good light is censored for expressing his opinions or opening once taboo subjects up for discussion. Talk about shooting themselves in the foot. :blast

And you're safe enough there Peter, there's no chance of me having anything at all to do with that crowd. I saw through them at age fourteen and I ain't ever going back. :)
 
I was listening to women speaking on 'liveline' today, if anyone's interested I'm sure you can listen from the net on podcasts?!

Rte 1, Liveline, joe Duffy.

It will give an insight into the way it was here, the fear and the narrow mindedness. I am still staggered sometimes by the beliefs some Catholics hold! Sometimes totally unreasonable and certainly not Christian:(

My brother married a Protestant in a Protestant church. My mother wanted a Catholic priest to concelebrate the marriage so as they would be married in the eyes of 'our God' too. My brother was happy to go along with her request. He spoke to the Catholic priest who asked if they would rear any children as Catholics. My brother replied that he wasn't sure if they wanted children but that if they had any that his mrs would be looking after the religious end of things as she was more committed than he. So the priest refused to concelebrate the marriage. My brother didn't care, my mother went mental! She told my brother that he should have lied and said he'd rear children catholic:confused::confused:

In her eyes it was preferable that he lie to the priest in order to be 'properly married':nenau

My mother was 52 at the time and is quite a reasonable person for the most part! I was and still am amazed at how brainwashed she is betimes:blast

It's very easy for us to wonder in this day and age how people didn't question anything. Have a listen if you can( I'm very incompetent with computers so can't provide links etc.) to today or yesterday's Liveline. Possibly Monday and Tuesday too:thumb

http://www.rte.ie/player/gb/
 
BBC1 23.35 The Magdalene Sisters 21st Feb 2013. May be worth watching,
 


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