K 1600 GT / GTL - Check behind the lower V-shaped radiator louvres

This stuff works well on my mountain bike

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I can assure you that the radiator was cleaned, entirely as recommended in the extensive book, taking care not to bend the delicate fins. I took care (naturally enough) not to use my jet wash on full power as that would just be silly, so I used it on a rather pleasing low pressure, as if watering vegetables.

What the same the same book does not tell you is to remove both the lower side fairings, the quite large plastic radiator grill (that resembles a back protector) and then dismantle the lower V shaped louvre grill.

In fact, and you'll have doubtless noticed that the same (well thumbed) Rider's Manual, is completely silent on how to remove the lower fairings at all, a task that BMW in their infinite wisdom obviously do not anticipate an owner needing to undertake, a simple washing of the upper part of the radiator (that open directly to the elements, bugs, flies and detritus of life) being apparently sufficient to keep the radiator radiating. A removal task that I will no doubt have to now perform on a regular basis if the lower completely obscured part of the radiator is to remain anything like clear. Hey-ho, such is life, a small burden perhaps for riding the damned thing extensively.

Obviously, the good folk at BMW had not considered the possibility of grot being washed UP from the road, past the obscuring lower engine louvre V shaped screen, where it lingers to accumulate unseen and untouched by the gentle watering hose.

Nor did they probably anticipate how the washing - with a gentle hose - the upper (exposed) part of the very large radiator would further exacerbate the problem by washing the bugs, flies and detritus of life further down to add to the unseen accumulation lower down, from where it cannot escape..

No doubt edition two of the Rider's Manual will have have an errata added to it.

So feck you and the horse you rode in on. Though thank you for your support, I'll wear it always.



Next please, nurse.

I think you have now got to the point where words will have to be had with Jeeves. These strict instructions listed in his routine for perhaps a tuesday, allowing sufficient time for the work to be completed in advance of any proposed Grand Tour the master may be conducting.

:)
 
Just goes to show (again) that the RT/GS are the better bikes. My RT doesn't have problems with the water cooling system.:augie
 
I haven't looked at the layout but would a mud flap/fender extender (I'm sure Bmw will think up a posh word for it:D)help stop the crud being thrown up?
 
I think you have now got to the point where words will have to be had with Jeeves. These strict instructions listed in his routine for perhaps a tuesday, allowing sufficient time for the work to be completed in advance of any proposed Grand Tour the master may be conducting.

:)

Now you are getting it :thumb2. :beerjug:

The radiator is huge, an inverted trapezoid shape. The broader top section easy to see and clean.

The lower portion is completely hidden, unless you remove the two side pans and assorted other bits of furniture. Down there, out of sight, horrors lurk.
 
..would a mud flap/fender extender (I'm sure Bmw will think up a posh word for it:D)help stop the crud being thrown up?

It's an idea for sure, but it may not work if the water is being 'sucked up' through the lower downward facing louvres.

I think the only practicable solution is to work on either clearing the muck out on a regular basis or making the V shaped louvred screen easier to remove.... Or not riding the damned thing.
 
This stuff works well on my mountain bike

...again, great if you can direct it straight at surface muck. The gap between the radiator and the lower (obscured) area is quite narrow, in a broadly V shape, rather like a cornet wrap of chips.

The bottom of the cone collects all the crap, which has nowhere to go. It builds steadily up and up, unseen and inaccessible.
 
All the miles the development riders do .....

would this not have shown up


lets assume it did

So why the f### not change the design or whatever

I mean why bother doing milllions of miles developing a bike and then ignoring the findings of said "development miles"

Especially when it's as basic as boiling over



I came over the gottard pass a few hours ago and there are loads of K16 around most of them 2 up and going like the clappers
10 feet of snow at the top so I don't spose overheating is an issue

Furka and the others ............ all shut
 
Is it part 20 on this pic? It *looks* like you could drop it by undoing two crews at the top and lifting (bending?) it up and forward.? It's not on backwards is it? Sloping down towards the rad does make sense but if its up against the mesh then it will do as you say. The fronts of the louvres look lower than the backs here...

Funny though, the only hits are this thread on google. There must be more high milage bikes from grottier places getting the same?
 

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Why should it show up in 'millions' of development miles?

For all you know the bike was run for no more than 200 miles at any one stretch and then the front stripped, clearing the small accumulation each time.

It first appeared as a problem with my bike after about 20,000 miles in one year. There is no other good reason to remove the lower radiator shields during that period and the accumulation is obscured.

It then occurred again within six thousand, a significantly different figure.

I now know the likely cause and am happy that I can deal with it in future. Getting hot under the collar or ranting about development testing (which usually opens up the door to nothing more than the 'not fit for purpose' brigade) does nothing.... Better to publicise the problem and let others possibly learn from it. Though as many owners do not do so many miles whilst a bike is in their hands, it's quite possible that they will never encounter it.

Park Lane are flagging it with Munich... Maybe there will be a re-design, that is if the bike remains in production.
 
Yup, it's part twenty.

It is / was on the right way around. From memory from having seen it while the front was off in the Alps, it's impossible to fit it the wrong way around. I think you are right in that it might be possible to undo the screws, but the V shape is very rigid plastic, making it difficult to bend. I also have a nagging feeling that the piece is also an interference fit with its neighbours.

The bike is down at Battersea, having its radiator replaced. They hadn't seen anything similar, nor had the BMW dealer in the Alps. The corrosion is strictly limited to the lower area, invisible higher up. I suspect that the accumulating grot was contaminated with cruddy salt on my two winter runs to the Ardennes. I hose the bike down each time when I come home, if nothing more than to stop too much salt getting into the callipers. As the grot and the water cannot escape from the V very easily, it gets baked on (six cylinders and lots of horses is hot) and / or sits there, rotting away unseen.

I too noticed a remarkable lack of other threads on the topic, as it was the first place I looked for hints and tips as to possible causes, though there is one fellow in America whose bike displayed remarkably similar symptoms. There is a U-tube clip, but the fellow rants on a bit so I was not convinced. There are also some reports of overheating in America at what they describe as 'Parade speeds' which might match in with my.... 'Get air rammed into the radiator area, and all is well' notion.

An airlock was the best second guess but I was never really convinced as, if air can get in, surely water under pressure can get out.... And there were no telltale streaks of green fluid to be seen. The water pump is mechanical and ran freely in the Alps, there was no reason to suspect it might suddenly have failed.

The overheating when it does occur is rapid, but will ONLY happen when not enough air can be passed through the very large remaining surface area of the un-blocked / un-obscured radiator. I can run the bike all day up and down D roads in France at sixty, eighty, one hundred, 130 miles an hour or more with no overheating. OK, it's probably running hot at five blocks out if the 10 lit up, but it doesn't flash red until nine. If I had had a clear run through the Blackwall Tunnel there is a better than average chance I too would not have encountered the problem the second and third time around.

The oil depth check in the Owner's Manual instructs owners to run the bike on tick-over until seven bars illuminate and the fan triggers, so five is hardly going some.
 
The fan looks like it only pulls through the tapered bit, right in the spot you know is hidden by the 'mud flap'. The aluminium is furring up over time like you say, blocking the fins and stopping your emergency cooling from being effective when stationary.

You could ACF it, but then it will be a blanket/shit scenario, possibly worse.

Anyway, Jeeves and his team should keep this managed now.
 

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Why should it show up in 'millions' of development miles?

For all you know the bike was run for no more than 200 miles at any one stretch and then the front stripped, clearing the small accumulation each time.

It first appeared as a problem with my bike after about 20,000 miles in one year. There is no other good reason to remove the lower radiator shields during that period and the accumulation is obscured.

It then occurred again within six thousand, a significantly different figure.

I now know the likely cause and am happy that I can deal with it in future. Getting hot under the collar or ranting about development testing (which usually opens up the door to nothing more than the 'not fit for purpose' brigade) does nothing.... Better to publicise the problem and let others possibly learn from it. Though as many owners do not do so many miles whilst a bike is in their hands, it's quite possible that they will never encounter it.

Park Lane are flagging it with Munich... Maybe there will be a re-design, that is if the bike remains in production.


You are probably right 200 miles strip down and clean

Sorry I spoke
 
An airlock was the best second guess but I was never really convinced as, if air can get in, surely water under pressure can get out.... And there were no telltale streaks of green fluid to be seen. The water pump is mechanical and ran freely in the Alps, there was no reason to suspect it might suddenly have failed.

Technical clarification m'lud :rob

An airlock isn't anything to do with a leak (or was Jeeves careless with transcription of your last 'post this' command and typed 'lock' rather than 'leak' ? :nenau)

A leak can CAUSE an air lock, but you can also have an airlock in a properly sealed system......it just means that a section of tube/pipe/system is filled with air and this prevents proper circulation.

It also means that a system is much harder to pressurise, as air is 'squidgy' (apologies if that technical term confuses)

Part of the problem with an airlock, apart from the fact that it can cause localised overheating in areas where the circulation is cut off, is that low pressure=lower boiling point, so again, even in a sealed system with no leaks, an air lock can cause heat issues :eek
 
:eek:
Good point, well made :thumb2

I have sacked the secretary.

:eek:
Surely your estate manager should have been dealing with such mundane matters as the dismissal of junior staff? :blast

I fear hard times have hit Wapping Towers :(
 


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