Rigid rear end outfit.....................

52blackshadow

52blackshadow

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For some time I have been bothered by a really soft rear end on my Yamaha Diversion 600 and Velorex outfit. On bends and corners the bike and sidecar wallow so much that it feels like the whole thing is about to collapse.

Now to a suggestion! One of my other outfits is a 1947 AJS pulling a Swallow sidecar. The sidecar wheel and the rear of the bike are both unsprung, and that slips round corners so smoothly, and with next to no roll. Now, I'm considering making up solid struts to replace the shock absorbers on both the sidecar and the bike. This should make the handling a whole lot more positive.

Has anyone done this? And does anyone know what the legal / MOT situation would be? I suppose I could refit the suspenders for the MOT, but it does seem a bit of a faff.

Any info will be appreciated,

Keith.
 
Sure the bike doesn't just need a new and/or stiffer rear shock ?
I`d be inclined to experiment along those lines before going hardtail.

Is the alignment and mounting of the sidecar okay?
 
Hi Tarka,,,

Hi Tarka,
the allignment is fine, outfit rides true with hands released at moderate speeds, no significant wobbles at any speed. You are probably right that it really needs a new shock, but it's not going to be cheap to buy one for the bike, and one for the sidecar, whereas it's easy to make up a couple of rigid struts and try it hardtail (besides I like the hardtail feel of the old AJS and think this may suit the divvie).

I guess if I don't like it I can convert back in little time.

Ride safe,

Keith.
 
Just a thought

Replacing the rear shocks with something completely rigid will means that all the forces coming up through the wheel from the road will be shared by the wheel and the frame rather than the wheel, frame AND shock

I reckon that it wont be long before that sort of extra loading shows itself in a damaged rim, spokes and possibly the rear part of the frame.

Really the best option is to sort out the rear shocks and springs
 
Regarding costs...if the suspension isn't rebuildable,I'm sure Hagon could sort you out reasonably.

I'd also check swinging arm bearings/bushes and any suspension linkage bearings/bushes for wear.
 
Thanks ........................................

I'm sure you are right about the forces hammering the frame and wheel, instead of being absorbed by the shock, but I thought I'd try anyway (I guess if it all goes badly wrong then Divvie 600 frames and wheels are ten a penny).

Knocked this up yesterday and fitted it to the bike (first attempt didn't adjust, and set the back end slightly high, this is MKII).

First signs are of a much improved ride round corners. Outfit is due an MOT at the end of the month, so I'll see what the tester thinks then (and if necessary I'll refit the shock for the test.

Wish me luck!

Shad.
 
And the picture........................

If this works!
 

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I ran a (custom framed) hard tailed XS650/Squire ST2 for a number of years (there's a piccie of it in the show us your sidecars thread) and it was the sweetest handling outfit I've ever ridden and not especially uncomfortable.

No issues with stuff breaking/bending although it was a proper rigid frame so that may have helped?

Think I'd go down the route of a stiffer shock. NB talking to a member of this site about Hagon he spec'd stiffer shocks for a sidecar from them but said they were only just stiff enough on max preload when solo and said he'd insist on even stiffer shocks from them if ordering from them again.

Andres
 
Good advice............................

Thanks Andre, first sign is that this may be a quick and cheap fix to an outfit that has handled poorly for a while.

If it doesn't work out after a few weeks of familiarisation then Hagon have to be the next step, but will order the heaviest springing they can offer.

Ride safe All,

Keith.
 
Good luck with your mod.

Consider that if the shock is as bad as you say,it may be fecked,and if you do refit it,it may fail the MOT anyway.
 
Thanks Tarka...................

The shock doesn't seem knackered, just a bit soft, causing the outfit to roll too much on corners. It's been like that since I bought the outfit (about 4 years ago), and to be fair, it's not so bad that the outfit is unrideable (been round the IOM Mountain course 3 up the past 2 years, and it certainly didn't hold many up!).

I don't have much spare cash at the moment, and am about to be made redundant, so spending a few hundred pounds on a shock isn't really an option. Just looking for a cheap and simple fix for a minor concern.

The outfit feels much nicer on the road with the strut fitted (and another on the sidecar), so worth experimenting.

All the best,
Keith.
 
Preload

Outtomunch said:
NB talking to a member of this site about Hagon he spec'd stiffer shocks for a sidecar from them but said they were only just stiff enough on max preload when solo and said he'd insist on even stiffer shocks from them if ordering from them again.

Andres
Click to expand...

Changing the preload does not stiffen the shock, it just alters the point where the spring starts working (i.e. pre-compresses it).

Think about it, increasing the preload cannot change the actual spring rate.

tom
 
Outtomunch said:
I ran a (custom framed) hard tailed XS650/Squire ST2 for a number of years (there's a piccie of it in the show us your sidecars thread) and it was the sweetest handling outfit I've ever ridden and not especially uncomfortable.

No issues with stuff breaking/bending although it was a proper rigid frame so that may have helped?

Think I'd go down the route of a stiffer shock. NB talking to a member of this site about Hagon he spec'd stiffer shocks for a sidecar from them but said they were only just stiff enough on max preload when solo and said he'd insist on even stiffer shocks from them if ordering from them again.

Andres
Click to expand...

Surly the main problem is down to the damping ability of the shock. Obviously too soft a spring will cause problems stated by Keith in his original posts. But having slower/stiffer compression damping will prevent the shock from compressing too quickly, removing that rollover feeling felt with the standard shock.

I have a similar problem with my BM with Velorex sidecar. Very softly sprung at the rear and the chair. Though I don't think I'll ever actually get round to it, but I've been toying with the idea of fitting an extra shock to back up the original one. Mine being a mono sourcing stronger springs is near impossible, let alone beefing up the damping, without spending nearly as much as the outfit is worth. Whereas a second shock can be got for a few quid from a breakers.


Val.
 
VAL. H. said:
Surly the main problem is down to the damping ability of the shock. Obviously too soft a spring will cause problems stated by Keith in his original posts. But having slower/stiffer compression damping will prevent the shock from compressing too quickly, removing that rollover feeling felt with the standard shock.

I have a similar problem with my BM with Velorex sidecar. Very softly sprung at the rear and the chair. Though I don't think I'll ever actually get round to it, but I've been toying with the idea of fitting an extra shock to back up the original one. Mine being a mono sourcing stronger springs is near impossible, let alone beefing up the damping, without spending nearly as much as the outfit is worth. Whereas a second shock can be got for a few quid from a breakers.


Val.
Click to expand...

Could be the way forward............. I had an old pre war car that had been used for rallying that had twin shocks in each corner fitted to lugs welded to the chassis :thumb2
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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