Improving Rate of cylinder glaze busting

davnjud · Aug 17, 2013

2013 GSA 2600 miles. Previously owned 2010 GSA 0- 18000 miles

Ran my 2010 in more gently than the new GSA but it only consumed 500 ml of oil between the first and 6k service. GSA was run in two up backwards and forwards over the penines and not sparing the horses. It has used 1500ml in the 1900 miles since first service ie 1L per 1267 miles. I am checking the oil regularly using the manual approved method but leaving on side stand for10 minutes after a long ride before putting on centre stand as this seems to be a better way of draining the oil cooler and gives higher readings as I am trying to be as optimistic as possible about usage.

Despite my efforts to give it a firm running in regime I am left with the irritating feeling that that bores are glazed to some degree. Rightly or wrongly I blaming this on the use of fully synthetic 15 50 castrol oil from new and after the first service. This is a fairly recent change by BMW and whilst it may boost their coffers and be a good solution for protecting higher mileage fully run in bikes I am less convinced that it is the best way to get it run in in a reasonable mileage and I don't see why this has to be 20k.

so what is the best way to speed up the glaze busting ? thrashing the nuts off it with this oil doesn't seem to be helping and just makes the consumption worse.
would you ask for a switch to a mineral oil ? I am about to embark on a tour which will take it up to 6k and think that mineral oil could be the way to go.

Aside from oil consumption are there any other ways of evaluating the degree of glazing eg compression test, colour of plugs ?

I know there will be those who think I should just suck it up and shove bucket loads of hard to obtain £15 a litre oil in it but I want to get those pistons rings scraping away the glaze and not have to wait 20k until this can stop bugging me.

Bobbin-Man · Aug 17, 2013

Chances are you have a little less power as well.

Maybe give Opie Oils a call and ask them their opinion, I've found them to be very helpful with technical stuff.

davnjud · Aug 17, 2013

Bobbin-Man said:
Chances are you have a little less power as well.

Maybe give Opie Oils a call and ask them their opinion, I've found them to be very helpful with technical stuff.

Yes it made around 5% less on the hilltop dyno than other TC.s.
Good idea about opie I use them for the mono grade oil I put in my 77 Commando.

stever1 · Aug 17, 2013

Simples !.

change the oil to good old fashioned mineral oil of the correct grade. My 2010 GS drank oil like an alky on a bender. I changed the oil at about 2300 miles left it in until the 6000 service and hey presto. Oil consumption significantly less, down to about 150-200 mil per 1000 miles at the 8000 miles point.

oneeleven · Aug 17, 2013

Hi, I use Fuchs Titan Superma 15W-50 mineral Engine Oil in my 2013 GSA from OPIE Oils. I have had it in from the first service at 600 mile and has consumed no oil in 2000 mile.
Regards Paul.

Deleted account 181015003 · Aug 17, 2013

Mines never used any oil between services from new now at 8400 miles I think its the luck of the draw some do some don't.

Most of the rides I do are at least 50 miles to 150+ in a day don't know if this makes a difference or not.

Pukmeister · Aug 17, 2013

I would chuck a £20 jug of Unipart M300 20W50 API SF grade oil in it for a few thousand miles, then go back to fully synthetic.

Dont be afraid to open the taps a bit, but don't let the engine struggle under load either.

Did this with my 2008 GSA, it uses no oil between services and makes 104 BHP.

birdseye · Aug 18, 2013

davnjud said:
2013 GSA 2600 miles. Previously owned 2010 GSA 0- 18000 miles

Ran my 2010 in more gently than the new GSA but it only consumed 500 ml of oil between the first and 6k service. GSA was run in two up backwards and forwards over the penines and not sparing the horses..

That isn't ''running it in'' by anyone's definition. Likely thats what has caused high oil consumption.

davegs · Aug 18, 2013

Oils AGHHH!

BMW dident recommend using fully synth oil until if you were a hard rider 12000 miles, or if a slower rider 18,000.

davnjud · Aug 18, 2013

davegs said:
BMW dident recommend using fully synth oil until if you were a hard rider 12000 miles, or if a slower rider 18,000.

Someone had better tell Alan Jefrries this. The line of the biggest BMW dealer in the North is that the new castrol 15 50 is suitable for all use from new - which after reading the several helpful replies to this thread I disagree with. Am certainly encouraged by what I have read to run it on DIY mineral oil until the next service - and most likely ask them to put mineral oil in at 6k too.

Don't,t want to turn this into yet another running in debate. Aside from no constant light speed running, rev it out per the manual and don,t let it labour (all of which I did over 3 days to 600 miles) there is just no agreement on this. I have heard many people say its just the luck of the draw and as for running in opinions like the the man said" opinions are like assholes - everybody's got one !"

Again thanks for the helpful replies

David

Timpo · Aug 18, 2013

davnjud said:
......before putting on centre stand as this seems to be a better way of draining the oil cooler.....

What? The cooler can't 'drain' unless you open it's piping to allow air in, it's a hydraulic loop so stays full of oil. :blast

And 'glaze' is a polished effect of the walls of a cylinder bore, and unlikely to of been achieved in your engine. Removal of such a glaze requires the use of honing stones mounted on tooling that needs to be spun in the bore. Running the engine ain't going to do it.

The boxer engines have a trait of oil consumption during the early life. This tapers off as the engine beds-in, my own 1200 was thirsty until 8000 miles and from there until now, 21,000 miles, has been fine.

seahorse · Aug 18, 2013

I would change to 20/50 mineral oil and give it a good thrash.
My 08 had 11k on it when I got it and had been run on the hideously expensive BMW issue Castrol fully synth 10/40. The first 6k I did was still under warranty and it used about a litre and a half in that time. I then started doing my own servicing using 20/50 and after a few good thrashes the oil consumption dropped and also the gearbox improved. It generally needs one minor top up now between services.
BMWs do generally take a while to get properly run in. Also they don't object to being revved hard so don't be afraid to do it.

davnjud · Aug 18, 2013

Timpo said:
What? The cooler can't 'drain' unless you open it's piping to allow air in, it's a hydraulic loop so stays full of oil.

.

Thanks -That makes sense. Can anyone explain then why more oil seems to drain into the sump when the bike is on its side stand. This has been my experience and is born out by several other recommendations on other threads. Obviously what I am talking about here is a like for like level comparison on the centre stand with and without a prior period on the side stand.

Fanum · Aug 18, 2013

Timpo said:
And 'glaze' is a polished effect of the walls of a cylinder bore, and unlikely to of been achieved in your engine. Removal of such a glaze requires the use of honing stones mounted on tooling that needs to be spun in the bore. Running the engine ain't going to do it.

The boxer engines have a trait of oil consumption during the early life. This tapers off as the engine beds-in, my own 1200 was thirsty until 8000 miles and from there until now, 21,000 miles, has been fine.

Erm.....isn't that missing the point that the 'old' practice was to use a thinner running in oil until the first service, then switching to mineral oil, and only the fully or semi synth after x miles, to allow proper bedding in?

If the have changed to filling it with fully synth from the factory, that IS going to prevent them from ever being properly run in :nenau

Delboy777 · Aug 18, 2013

Fanum said:
Erm.....isn't that missing the point that the 'old' practice was to use a thinner running in oil until the first service, then switching to mineral oil, and only the fully or semi synth after x miles, to allow proper bedding in?

If the have changed to filling it with fully synth from the factory, that IS going to prevent them from ever being properly run in

+1 How can an engine "bed in" when its full of super slipper fully synth oil ? It cant !!! :blagblah

(RIP) Miff · Aug 18, 2013

Remove air filter
Throw a handful of fine sand in the airbox
Run bike for 500 miles

It's now de-glazed and run in

bwprice100 · Aug 18, 2013

Miff said:
Remove air filter

Throw a handful of fine sand in the airbox

Run bike for 500 miles

It's now de-glazed and run in

Once you start your, obviously patented, de-glazing process how do you then get it to stop. Would doing the same but using some copaslip grease work?

Kenny Rodkiss · Aug 18, 2013

Can you still get glazed bores with Nikasil bores??? :confused:

Nikasil is short for NIckel Silicon Carbide. Silicon carbide is a very hard ceramic (much harder than steel) that can be dissolved in nickel. The nickel solution can then be electroplated onto the aluminum cylinder bore. The piston rings will then rub off the exposed nickel, leaving a very hard layer of silicone carbide to protect the aluminum piston from direct contact with the aluminum cylinder. With this setup, the engine tolerances can be much tighter for better performance. The cylinder must be re-plated after it is re-bored, but Nikasil is extremely durable, so the cylinder does not need to be reworked as often as an iron or chrome cylinder.

autogs · Aug 18, 2013

seahorse said:
I would change to 20/50 mineral oil and give it a good thrash.
My 08 had 11k on it when I got it and had been run on the hideously expensive BMW issue Castrol fully synth 10/40. The first 6k I did was still under warranty and it used about a litre and a half in that time. I then started doing my own servicing using 20/50 and after a few good thrashes the oil consumption dropped and also the gearbox improved. It generally needs one minor top up now between services.
BMWs do generally take a while to get properly run in. Also they don't object to being revved hard so don't be afraid to do it.

so how did changing the engine oil make the gearbox improve?

davnjud · Aug 18, 2013

Kenny Rodkiss said:
Can you still get glazed bores with Nikasil bores???

Nikasil is short for NIckel Silicon Carbide. Silicon carbide is a very hard ceramic (much harder than steel) that can be dissolved in nickel. The nickel solution can then be electroplated onto the aluminum cylinder bore. The piston rings will then rub off the exposed nickel, leaving a very hard layer of silicone carbide to protect the aluminum piston from direct contact with the aluminum cylinder. With this setup, the engine tolerances can be much tighter for better performance. The cylinder must be re-plated after it is re-bored, but Nikasil is extremely durable, so the cylinder does not need to be reworked as often as an iron or chrome cylinder.

From what you describe the wearing away of the nickel has to be done without glazing. This link explained glazing pretty well to me.
http://coxengineering.sharepoint.com/Pages/Boreglazing.aspx
I don,t know if my bores are technically glazed or not - but it is clear that engine oil is getting past the partial seal and being burned.

Improving Rate of cylinder glaze busting

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