The Power Commander Files.
- Thread starter Nick V
- Start date
It makes sense... but they don't a) make clear what the units or scale of exhaust-gas measurement they're using are, or b) what they, personally, consider to be an overly 'lean' range.
However, it does drive home the importance of tuning on a dyno whilst taking real-time exhaust Lambda readings.
Without access to a dyno, tuning is going to be slow - this is why I'm of the opinion that an average enthusiast will be getting nowhere slow without the Autotune module and basic knowledge of the chemistry involved.
Without access to a dyno and a four-gas analyzer, there is no way you'll get the tuning spot-on.
It's very interesting that the Lambda readings seemed to be 'overly lean' for the first two-thirds of the engine's rev range, before suddenly coming to 'optimum'.
If this wasn't a skewed result, it would show that BMW deliberately tuned the bike to be overly lean. There are two advantages to doing this - fuel economy and the ability to conform to the EURO 3 emissions standard that they say the bike conforms to. But it does tend to have a negative impact on throttle response.
If radical power-oriented mods haven't been made to a given engine, most of the improvement felt from through-the range enrichment is due more to an improvement in throttle response than an increase in 'power'.
(The nett result is that the rider will feel that the engine is more responsive.)
e mail
Hi Nick pleas send it to lrtetich@gmail.com I'll give it a try and let you know how the bike perform with this map.
Hi Nick pleas send it to lrtetich@gmail.com I'll give it a try and let you know how the bike perform with this map.
WarthogARJ
Registered user
Hi Nick,
I've been trying to decide on either getting a re-map (Hilltop Motorcycles: I'm in the UK), or being more adventurous and getting a PC.
I have an HP2 Enduro 2007: my aim is to improve fuel economy and even out the throttle response, especially at the lower end.
The feedback about the HillTop remap is good, although the details of what is actually done are a bit confused.
I don't know much about how the PC actually works: your posts were interesting, although I don't really follow everything. I know it's just an extra processor, but I'm not sure how it interfaces with the existing BMW ECU.
I read a comment on this forum about the 1200 needing TWO separate PC's: is that really true? It said because each cylinder had a different map. That seems a bit over the top.
I looked on the PC site and it doesn't list my bike, only seems to have the later street versions. Not sure if that would be an issue.
I don't have ABS and my ECU is a fairly basic model.
I'm pretty sure I'll go to HillTop, but I'd like to really understand the options.
Thanks,
Alan
P.S. I was in RSA 15 years: Joburg and Secunda, then Cape Town 1 year.
I've been trying to decide on either getting a re-map (Hilltop Motorcycles: I'm in the UK), or being more adventurous and getting a PC.
I have an HP2 Enduro 2007: my aim is to improve fuel economy and even out the throttle response, especially at the lower end.
The feedback about the HillTop remap is good, although the details of what is actually done are a bit confused.
I don't know much about how the PC actually works: your posts were interesting, although I don't really follow everything. I know it's just an extra processor, but I'm not sure how it interfaces with the existing BMW ECU.
I read a comment on this forum about the 1200 needing TWO separate PC's: is that really true? It said because each cylinder had a different map. That seems a bit over the top.
I looked on the PC site and it doesn't list my bike, only seems to have the later street versions. Not sure if that would be an issue.
I don't have ABS and my ECU is a fairly basic model.
I'm pretty sure I'll go to HillTop, but I'd like to really understand the options.
Thanks,
Alan
P.S. I was in RSA 15 years: Joburg and Secunda, then Cape Town 1 year.
WarthogARJ
Registered user
This is the comment about needing two PC's. But re-reading it, maybe he doesn't mean tow PC's, he says two "units". What does he mean? Do you agree?
"pcv will fit ok on your 08 i have one fiited to mine and as a note the maps available on pc website pcIII for 08 bikes are compatible all you have to do is fill in the 15% throttle column in the pcv map.you can either cut & paste the maps or enter manually or you could add the auto tune modules and then no map/dyno required but you would need two units as the bikes has a seperate map for each cyclinder but at the moment dyno jet are still configuring the firmware on the pcv to accomodate two autotune units."
"pcv will fit ok on your 08 i have one fiited to mine and as a note the maps available on pc website pcIII for 08 bikes are compatible all you have to do is fill in the 15% throttle column in the pcv map.you can either cut & paste the maps or enter manually or you could add the auto tune modules and then no map/dyno required but you would need two units as the bikes has a seperate map for each cyclinder but at the moment dyno jet are still configuring the firmware on the pcv to accomodate two autotune units."
Deleted account 190920001
Registered user
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2009
- Messages
- 3,368
- Reaction score
- 0
He means 2 auto tune modules and not 2 power commanders.
I don't mean this in a nasty way but if you don't understand how it all works then don't go for it. You could buy all the kit, fit it and go for a dyno session to get it all tuned but you will be far more expensive than going to hilltop especially when you take into account having to buy 2 auto tune units.
WarthogARJ
Registered user
Yes I think you're right.
That's more or less what I was thinking.
I could figure it out, it's not that difficult a thing, but I'm not sure I want to spend the time, and I'm not sure the gain for me is worth the effort.
And I don't really want something like that done to my bike unless I know more of what's being done, so I don't want to just pay someone to do it.
If I'm in some remote place and I have a problem I suppose i can just unplug it all.
Well, same thing with the remaps!
Although I know more or less what's happening there.
I'd more or less made up my mind to go with the HillTop remap and then a colleague who does some kart racing with motorbike engines and PC's and equivalent was saying the PC way would be better.
But then I was reading thru this thread and I thought hmmmmmm.....:-}
I think you replied to an earlier post I'd done.
But do you know exactly what HillTop does?
Geoff said they completely redo the original BMW firmware when I spoke to him, but I don't think he really means that.
I think that's too much to do: it's all proprietary firmware, think would be a big job to recode that for every bike they did.
Max at MaxBMW in the USA has done quite a few HP2's: he says he just replaces the BMW maps, I think with several maps.
I'm pretty sure HillTop does the same.
That's more or less what I was thinking.
I could figure it out, it's not that difficult a thing, but I'm not sure I want to spend the time, and I'm not sure the gain for me is worth the effort.
And I don't really want something like that done to my bike unless I know more of what's being done, so I don't want to just pay someone to do it.
If I'm in some remote place and I have a problem I suppose i can just unplug it all.
Well, same thing with the remaps!
Although I know more or less what's happening there.
I'd more or less made up my mind to go with the HillTop remap and then a colleague who does some kart racing with motorbike engines and PC's and equivalent was saying the PC way would be better.
But then I was reading thru this thread and I thought hmmmmmm.....:-}
I think you replied to an earlier post I'd done.
But do you know exactly what HillTop does?
Geoff said they completely redo the original BMW firmware when I spoke to him, but I don't think he really means that.
I think that's too much to do: it's all proprietary firmware, think would be a big job to recode that for every bike they did.
Max at MaxBMW in the USA has done quite a few HP2's: he says he just replaces the BMW maps, I think with several maps.
I'm pretty sure HillTop does the same.
Deleted account 190920001
Registered user
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2009
- Messages
- 3,368
- Reaction score
- 0
Would that have been on the gs911 site? I remember having a conversation about what might or might not be getting done over there. I think Stephens take on the situation was a fair bet.
WarthogARJ
Registered user
Yes I think it was. They also did some PC work on a couple bikes, but using a dyno.
Max (MaxBMW) offered to hook me up with a connection of his in the UK that does the similar thing that he does: they all share maps and beta.
But he thought HillTop was likely doing the same thing: just adding maps.
I think I'll go with HillTop since he's pretty close to me and has a good reputation with various BMW models.
I know it IS possible to rewrite/replace the entire coding for the BMW 1200: a friend of mine with another guy did it for a kit plane in South Africa.
They wanted a simpler version without all the cut-outs the BMW system has.
Be a bit inconvenient if you plane engine cuts out because it thinks the side-stand is down....:-}
But what they did isn't applicable to a motorbike.
Max (MaxBMW) offered to hook me up with a connection of his in the UK that does the similar thing that he does: they all share maps and beta.
But he thought HillTop was likely doing the same thing: just adding maps.
I think I'll go with HillTop since he's pretty close to me and has a good reputation with various BMW models.
I know it IS possible to rewrite/replace the entire coding for the BMW 1200: a friend of mine with another guy did it for a kit plane in South Africa.
They wanted a simpler version without all the cut-outs the BMW system has.
Be a bit inconvenient if you plane engine cuts out because it thinks the side-stand is down....:-}
But what they did isn't applicable to a motorbike.
Hi again, all! 
The PC electronic module 'talks' to the Autotune electronic module via a two-core length of flex. Ideally, they need to be mounted fairly close to one another.
From that 'base', you have a choice of using either one or two wide-band Lambda sensors. If one, it should be mounted at the exhaust-header Y-piece, just before the cat. (Cutting and welding will be required). If two, you can simply unscrew the original narrow-band sensors and the wide-band sensors will be a direct 'drop-in' replacement.
So if you want to go the Autotune route with minimal fuss, you need two Lambda sensors and one AT-300 module.
IIRC, the HP2 Enduro used a version of the boxer engine that was basically identical to the 2009 R1200GS engine of the same vintage - right down to power output. If that's the case, and the HP2 engine uses the same throttle-position sensor and fuel injectors, a PC V meant for the GS will slot right in.
After that, it's be relatively simple to tweak an R1200GS map to suit.
Nope.
See my comments above. The setup I described above is what's currently running on my bike.
From my understanding of it, that's exactly what they do. The original ECU map is simply replaced with an altered map by re-flashing the ECU.
It's actually exactly the same method that a PC owner uses to replace the map on his PC by using a laptop computer (the difference being that if you want to do the same to the BMW ECU, you need the proprietary BMW equipment, which is not available from your friendly local computer supplies store).
At the end of the day, assuming the relevant map is well thought-out, you will get exactly the same result.
Remember: a PC works by 'intercepting' the input (TPS) and output (fuel injector) signals from the BMW ECU, altering the injector output signals to conform to the given map, then forwarding them to the injectors.
A possible advantage of re-flashing the original ECU is that you might be able to play with the ignition advance mapping as well.
Interesting... do you have contact details for this SA contact?
I'd like to discuss possibilities with him.
The PC electronic module 'talks' to the Autotune electronic module via a two-core length of flex. Ideally, they need to be mounted fairly close to one another.
From that 'base', you have a choice of using either one or two wide-band Lambda sensors. If one, it should be mounted at the exhaust-header Y-piece, just before the cat. (Cutting and welding will be required). If two, you can simply unscrew the original narrow-band sensors and the wide-band sensors will be a direct 'drop-in' replacement.
So if you want to go the Autotune route with minimal fuss, you need two Lambda sensors and one AT-300 module.
IIRC, the HP2 Enduro used a version of the boxer engine that was basically identical to the 2009 R1200GS engine of the same vintage - right down to power output. If that's the case, and the HP2 engine uses the same throttle-position sensor and fuel injectors, a PC V meant for the GS will slot right in.
After that, it's be relatively simple to tweak an R1200GS map to suit.
Nope.
See my comments above. The setup I described above is what's currently running on my bike.
From my understanding of it, that's exactly what they do. The original ECU map is simply replaced with an altered map by re-flashing the ECU.
It's actually exactly the same method that a PC owner uses to replace the map on his PC by using a laptop computer (the difference being that if you want to do the same to the BMW ECU, you need the proprietary BMW equipment, which is not available from your friendly local computer supplies store).
At the end of the day, assuming the relevant map is well thought-out, you will get exactly the same result.
Remember: a PC works by 'intercepting' the input (TPS) and output (fuel injector) signals from the BMW ECU, altering the injector output signals to conform to the given map, then forwarding them to the injectors.
A possible advantage of re-flashing the original ECU is that you might be able to play with the ignition advance mapping as well.
Interesting... do you have contact details for this SA contact?
I'd like to discuss possibilities with him.
Hey Guys could please give me a link to the correct Quickshifter for my 1200 GS built in 2009?
I don´t know if I should buy the PULL or PUSH Dynojet Quickshifter. The PC5 is already installed.
And could you please send me an photo of your installed/mounted Quickshifter?
Thanks in advance!
Chris
I don´t know if I should buy the PULL or PUSH Dynojet Quickshifter. The PC5 is already installed.
And could you please send me an photo of your installed/mounted Quickshifter?
Thanks in advance!
Chris
Hi DMC! When shifting, the shift pushrod is under compression. So you'll need a push-type switch.
Best of luck with the installation!
Best of luck with the installation!
Bendy toy
Registered user
I run my Power Commander V without the autotune with a map for GS with Akraprovic exhaust. It's running without O2 sensors so open loop and the tunings not spot on but works well.
Normal fuel use on motorways 45mpg though it will drop into the high 30s when I work it hard.
Performance is considerably better. I can pull smoothly from below 2000 rpm, the upper end just keeps going and the 4000rpm flat spot has gone.
When I first took it out, the increased power scared the wotsits out of me. I hit the rev limiter in 3rd without trying. Rapid brain recalibration sorted that. There are more pops on the overrun but it's running a tad rich so to be expected. I'll eventually get around to downloading other maps to see how they help.
Normal fuel use on motorways 45mpg though it will drop into the high 30s when I work it hard.
Performance is considerably better. I can pull smoothly from below 2000 rpm, the upper end just keeps going and the 4000rpm flat spot has gone.
When I first took it out, the increased power scared the wotsits out of me. I hit the rev limiter in 3rd without trying. Rapid brain recalibration sorted that. There are more pops on the overrun but it's running a tad rich so to be expected. I'll eventually get around to downloading other maps to see how they help.
Similar threads
