Advice please.

Bucephalus

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I have just purchased a 1969 Triumph Trophy 650 with a Hedingham single seat side car, and took it out to day for the first time, very interesting and occasionally very sphincter tightening to say the least.
After spending some time with a so called Brit Classic some 10 year older which I very much fell out of love with, thought this bike would be easier to keep on the road re parts, service etc, and always have simply just fancied an outfit. Probably due to the very early childhood memories riding in my Dads outfit, a small fully enclosed chair which would quite easily become a Flash Gordon space craft escape pod; with the imagination of a child.
However, I digress, one reason for the divorce was the shear difficulty in starting the bloody thing, and in my recent week of my ownership of this vehicle, have been thrilled to be able to start this bike, easily, and have been quick to demonstrate this to anyone even slightly interested in the bike. I have always loved bikes but have never really picked up the spannering bit, I appreciate good motorcycle maintenance, tried the "Zen" approach which is usually paying through the nose to get someone else to do it, and annally cleaning and polishing as my penance.
Now to the ride, start up easy, check, being watched by Wife, Mother in Law, and neighbour, now very excited, first gear-ish and away I go up narrow unmade drive I raise my left arm like Superman to infinity and beyond, but turn it into wave a goodbye for the audience..Suddenly sharply veer to the right into a large bramble hedge, which was quite impact absorbing but on the other hand I was held in the uncomfortable spikey embrace, of its barbed-wire like tendrils anchored into my soft leather jacket. I had my visor up and had received a few minor lacerations to my nose, which always looks worse when one is on blood thinning tablets, I barked at my Wife to stop panicking and make herself useful.
Ahem, I digress, the ride take two, no damage done, right, thank you for your indulgence, and the advice I seek is as following. The bike is fitted with Indespension front forks, (I think that is the term) with a lead link set-up very similar to Moderator Kenny's Guzzi outfit. When I ride away the handle bars flap about up to about 25mph and then settle and are not too bad at speed in a straight line, that is 50 mph BTW. The front tyre is a square for side car type, and I have no steering damper, the forks are fitted with a coil spring damper unit each side. So, is this normal? Or are the front shocks knackered, any advice would be appreciated.:nenau
 
Firstly,it could just be a lack of experience on your part.

However,a lot of conventional solo bikes adapted into combos will exhibit a headshake either at low speed or high speed depending on how the outfit is set up.
This I think is down to them having relatively lightweight frame tubing and an original frame geometry for a solo.

My Urals,for instance,don't suffer any of this and can be ridden single handed easily,but they are designed and specced to have a chair fitted and this is why Ural solos are very heavy machines.
Even with tired shocks a Ural combo doesn't massively misbehave so I think you need to try some adjustments.

Years ago I had a Suzuki GS850G with leading link forks,square profile front tyre,15" rear with square profile car tyre and a Watsonian GP sports chair and it had varying levels of headshake and 'twitch'.
I made it manageable and 'safer' with a just off idle speed slight headshake by altering the fork geometry on the links (used different shock lower mounting holes) and played about with the toe-in and lean-out of the combo.

Apart from maybe acquiring more experience,check your toe-in and lean-out and maybe play with your tyre pressures too.
Urals have about 5/8" to 1" toe-in and only 1 degree of lean-out per the book but you can play with this to suit road cambers and loadings.
Urals are best with 32-34psi in the front,36psi in the chair tyre and 40-44psi in the rear for road use.

You could always fit a steering damper or do the old trick of fitting a phosphor bronze ring in place of at least one headbearing but I think adjustment and tyre pressures should sort it.

Another thing though...how much 'lead' is there on the sidecar wheel axle (how far in front of the rear wheel spindle is the sidecar one) ??
Too little and the combo will feel a bit like it`s snaking or on marbles....the 2WD Urals are like this as they have much less lead than the 1WD ones do.
 
Thanks very much for your long and informative answer, but unfortunately due to a past history of anytime I have tried to adjust, literally anything, I've usually made it inherently worse, I'll probably just take it easy until I can find someone who can check things out properly. There's already a lot of salt on the roads here which had my motorcycle OCD twitching by the time I got home, but I plan to do a few jobs over the winter. TBH I didn't even check the tyre pressures, they just all seemed er, hard, the front tyre although a square profile, is a thin full size spoked classic jobbie, and the sidecar is similar. The sidecar frame is a fixed professional item, with the car tub sitting inside it having a blanked off wheel plate on the RHSide for export I guess. I intend to join a local Classic bike group, to at least try to keep the tug going and maybe find some expertise there. Thanks again and if your ever passing Abergele on your outfit a PM will ensure a brew!
 
Ok mate...and good luck.

If you`re totally at a loss you`re welcome to come to mine or maybe meet up somewhere for a checkover of your combo,or if you want any sidecar riding tuition.
 
Something else I`ve overlooked is for you to check the bike`s wheel alignment!

It may have been built from a solo that had been in a front end smack and the frame may possibly be bent.

Or maybe even the leading link front end was fabricated out of true.

Also check the bike`s swinging arm bearings,because if they`re shot that won`t help the handling.

Likewise check the headbearings aren`t too loose.

You commented on the front shocks,but I reckon they`d have to be totally shot before you got the bad symptoms you describe.

HTH.
 
I'm going to piggy back on to this thread because I'm looking for somewhat related advice.

I had a Ural 750 for a few years in the states but sold it before moving here to Sweden. I'm now looking for an outfit (a new to me term) and so have been shopping in Germany via Mobile.de where there are currently over 300 for sale. Wow. ANyway, I'm looking for Urals mainly but am open to other bikes that have had sidecars fitted. Many of those have forks that have been modified to leading link forks but many haven't. I've only ridden the Ural so can anyone comment on the handling of a Ural vs a bike without a modified fork. I'm also looking for other handling differences. Specifically, are there other advantages of the Ural over a bike that's been fitted with a sidecar even if the bike has a modified front fork? Thanks in advance and apologies if this already has a devoted thread somewhere. /mark
 
I'm going to piggy back on to this thread because I'm looking for somewhat related advice.

I had a Ural 750 for a few years in the states but sold it before moving here to Sweden. I'm now looking for an outfit (a new to me term) and so have been shopping in Germany via Mobile.de where there are currently over 300 for sale. Wow. ANyway, I'm looking for Urals mainly but am open to other bikes that have had sidecars fitted. Many of those have forks that have been modified to leading link forks but many haven't. I've only ridden the Ural so can anyone comment on the handling of a Ural vs a bike without a modified fork. I'm also looking for other handling differences. Specifically, are there other advantages of the Ural over a bike that's been fitted with a sidecar even if the bike has a modified front fork? Thanks in advance and apologies if this already has a devoted thread somewhere. /mark

Mark
Bit of a cheeky thread hijack mate.....you should have made a new thread of your own.

Anyway,if someone has never ridden an outfit of any kind,they will simply learn to ride and get to know theirs as 'normal'.
My first two Urals had tele forks, therefore how they behaved was normal to me.
However,whilst still owning a 650 Ural I also acquired a 750 Ural with a leading link front end.
I was stunned at how much more secure and steady the front end felt,and after riding it for a few days and going back onto the 650,the tele front end felt awful...and in spirited cornering it almost felt unsafe due to 'getting itself into knots' as if it was gong to tuck in mid corner.
Essentially there was nothing wrong with the teles,but the reduced trail of the leading links led to easier handling and the construction of it was effectively self bracing.
When properly set up a leading link front end will seperate suspension forces from braking forces and this makes a massive difference between the two,as when teles compress,the steering geometry changes.


You say you had a 750 Ural so that will I'm sure have had a leading link front end.
Although a while ago,you may not like how a tele equipped combo feels....and I'd now always have a combo with leading links.

Avantages of a Ural combo over a modified other bike?
Well,the Ural is the only bike designed and specified to be a combo.
The frame tubes are thick and durable...the geometry and frame bracing is designed for the side forces...the wheel spokes are massive to compensate for the loading...etc,etc.
Each to their own but I feel that any other bike with a sidecar added is bastardised and compromised in some way....other fok may well disagree but the Ural has that complete and solid feel....plus an olde worlde appeal even on the newer ones.

Hope this helps a bit. :beerjug:
 
Mark
Bit of a cheeky thread hijack mate.....you should have made a new thread of your own.
:D Sorry, it seemed related enough to not warrant its own thread but you're probably right.

Anyway,if someone has never ridden an outfit of any kind,they will simply learn to ride and get to know theirs as 'normal'.
My first two Urals had tele forks, therefore how they behaved was normal to me.
However,whilst still owning a 650 Ural I also acquired a 750 Ural with a leading link front end.
I was stunned at how much more secure and steady the front end felt,and after riding it for a few days and going back onto the 650,the tele front end felt awful...and in spirited cornering it almost felt unsafe due to 'getting itself into knots' as if it was gong to tuck in mid corner.
Essentially there was nothing wrong with the teles,but the reduced trail of the leading links led to easier handling and the construction of it was effectively self bracing.
When properly set up a leading link front end will seperate suspension forces from braking forces and this makes a massive difference between the two,as when teles compress,the steering geometry changes.


You say you had a 750 Ural so that will I'm sure have had a leading link front end.
Although a while ago,you may not like how a tele equipped combo feels....and I'd now always have a combo with leading links.

Avantages of a Ural combo over a modified other bike?
Well,the Ural is the only bike designed and specified to be a combo.
The frame tubes are thick and durable...the geometry and frame bracing is designed for the side forces...the wheel spokes are massive to compensate for the loading...etc,etc.
Each to their own but I feel that any other bike with a sidecar added is bastardised and compromised in some way....other fok may well disagree but the Ural has that complete and solid feel....plus an olde worlde appeal even on the newer ones.

Hope this helps a bit. :beerjug:

Thanks Tarka, this is exactly the sort of input I was looking for. You're right that my Ural had the leading link fork and I just assumed that they had always been that way but now looking at some older models I realize they have telescopic forks. Yesterday I had a long conversation with a guy here in Sweden who works on and sells Urals, Dneprs and CJs. His preference is a Dnepr with a Ural engine because he thinks the Dnepr frame build (at least on the military models) is stronger and the sidecar suspension is more plush. Anyway, I think because I'm used to a leading link fork I'll definitely look for that in the one I end up with.
 


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