Overtaking Speed

Wreford Miles said:
its all about observation....

you cannot be nicked for speeding if there is no one/or machine there to nick you

so your question is only important if you intend or might do it when there is, so my advice would be spend less time thinking and more time observing
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This is exactly the point I was thinking about (oops!) I was wondering what the general opinion was on the letter of the law compared to what riders actually do to stay safe. I probably didn't explain myself very well, but mobile cameras to one side I don't see any type of law enforcement most of the time.

I really can manage a safe overtake by the way!
 
Never mind the ACPO guidelines .... speeding is an absolute offence :eek:
1 mph over the limit you commit an offence, ne're mind this 'ere 10% malarky :nenau

The ACPO guideline are just that ... guidelines. You have no excuses if caught, maybe mitigation ...

That is unless things have changed in the last twenty years since I retired :rob

:beerjug:
 
Micky said:
Never mind the ACPO guidelines .... speeding is an absolute offence :eek:
1 mph over the limit you commit an offence, ne're mind this 'ere 10% malarky :nenau

The ACPO guideline are just that ... guidelines. You have no excuses if caught, maybe mitigation ...

That is unless things have changed in the last twenty years since I retired :rob



:beerjug:
Click to expand...


Hi Micky,

I agree completely and have a lot of respect for law enforcement, (I've had quite a few encounters through my work.) If I'm riding on a road with no cameras, no form of enforcement on a bike that will very quickly exceed and return to the speed limit is there really an offence? I'm incredibly law abiding and try really hard not to cause offence to other road users, but overtaking with a burst of speed would appear to be completely safe. Given the 40mph speed limit on my route to work witha row of cars travelling at 35 - 40mph should I not overtake?
 
The fact that the road works have a 40mph limit is more to do with the road workers safety rather than deliberately making the road boring to ride or to make everyone late to work. I treat road works the same as I do going through any other 20, 30 or 40mph restricted area where the local conditions have greater than normal risk and I don't overtake or exceed the speed limit in any of those. And yes, I do regularly break the speed limit but there's a time and a place where I take that risk. I think you need to understand the reasons for the speed limits in road works which are there for very different reasons than say a 50mph limit would be near the Cat & Fiddle.
 
Beemerman59 said:
The fact that the road works have a 40mph limit is more to do with the road workers safety rather than deliberately making the road boring to ride or to make everyone late to work. I treat road works the same as I do going through any other 20, 30 or 40mph restricted area where the local conditions have greater than normal risk and I don't overtake or exceed the speed limit in any of those. And yes, I do regularly break the speed limit but there's a time and a place where I take that risk. I think you need to understand the reasons for the speed limits in road works which are there for very different reasons than say a 50mph limit would be near the Cat & Fiddle.
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You might be making an assumption about my knowledge there. I understand the work force issue completely and was just inviting opinions on the subject of exceeding a particular limit to maintain safety during an overtake. Most of us wander over the limit at some point which I don't think makes us dangerous riders.
 
Bryn said:
ACPO guidelines are 10% +2 .. and regulations state that a speedo fitted to a vehicle has to be accurate to + or - 10% hence the ACPO guidelines. You'd have a statutory defence if you get done for being over the speed limit for less than 10%

i.e 33mph , 44 etc.

This seems to back that up :

United Kingdom

The Motor Vehicles (Approval) Regulations 2001[16] permits single vehicles to be approved. As with the UNECE regulation and the EC Directives, the speedometer must never show an indicated speed less than the actual speed. However it differs slightly from them in specifying that for all actual speeds between 25 mph and 70 mph (or the vehicles' maximum speed if it is lower than this), the indicated speed must not exceed 110% of the actual speed, plus 6.25 mph.
For example, if the vehicle is actually travelling at 50 mph, the speedometer must not show more than 61.25 mph or less than 50 mph.
Click to expand...


What mickey said - it's absolute offence. The acpo guidelines are just that, guidelines.
 
That video may be worth a watch if only for the complete failure of the instructor/observer to pull up the trainee/associate for riding on the white line and passing within inches of a pedestrian walking in the road at the junction, ~2:22 - 2:23 into the clip. The trainee didn't even see the walker, I'm not sure the instructor did either.
 
When I did a Scottish BikeSafe run the officer who accompanied me said something like the following:- "If the overtake is well considered, promptly and correctly implemented you should not need to exceed the limit. If the situation changes and for safety you exceed the limit to complete the manouvre you are most unlikely to be prosecuted for speeding".

I took that to mean only overtake if you can complete the manouvre legally. If a muppet speeds up as you try and pass him/her use your performance to safely complete the overtake. Then look out for an ill conceived, stupid, badly executed and downright dangerous "take back" from said muppet and expect them to sit on your back wheel until they get past you. :D
 
jdcxxx said:
You might be making an assumption about my knowledge there. I understand the work force issue completely and was just inviting opinions on the subject of exceeding a particular limit to maintain safety during an overtake. Most of us wander over the limit at some point which I don't think makes us dangerous riders.
Click to expand...

What assumption have I made? Your post sets the situation as a narrow road with road works and a 40mph restriction. Excess speeding during an overtake is putting others in danger even if you think you are in control and can handle it. No different than speeding past a school at 0850 in the morning of a school day. Would you invite the same question under that circumstance? My opinion is that under the circumstances you have quoted, you cannot guarantee a safe overtake even if 99 times out of a 100 you wouldn't have an incident. That doesn't make it a safe overtake just because you got away with it. If you decide to speed through the road works be it a short overtake or otherwise and get caught doing it or knock the brains out of an unsuspecting construction worker then don't expect sympathy. That's my opinion which is what you asked for.
 
Beemerman59 said:
What assumption have I made? Your post sets the situation as a narrow road with road works and a 40mph restriction. Excess speeding during an overtake is putting others in danger even if you think you are in control and can handle it. No different than speeding past a school at 0850 in the morning of a school day. Would you invite the same question under that circumstance? My opinion is that under the circumstances you have quoted, you cannot guarantee a safe overtake even if 99 times out of a 100 you wouldn't have an incident. That doesn't make it a safe overtake just because you got away with it. If you decide to speed through the road works be it a short overtake or otherwise and get caught doing it or knock the brains out of an unsuspecting construction worker then don't expect sympathy. That's my opinion which is what you asked for.
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I see your point, but the roadworks are on a separate new carriageway alongside the A435. The speed restriction is in place for the highly visible site traffic which occasionally turns on or off so I don't consider it a particulalry dangerous scenario. Under the circumstances you mentioned with guys working near the carriageway absolutely. If it sounds like I'm some sort of speed demon, I'm really not. I don't have problems with overtaking and rarely go for excessive speed. It was more an issue of legality VS safety.
 
wheelnut said:
What mickey said - it's absolute offence. The acpo guidelines are just that, guidelines.
Click to expand...

Up here in Leicestershire I've never known a traffic officer knock off a motorist for doing under 10% +2 of the limit... if they do it elsewhere it's a sad state of affairs... and there's no chance of non-traffic officers doing speed checks... they're too busy dealing with their community partners and getting rid of crime reports ;)
 
Most on here including myself won't know the road you're on about so have to take clues from what you post. I think the legality is clear as has been pointed out in several posts. The safety side is down to you're own personal risk assessment based only on your own judgement. We all think differently and will take varying amounts of risk depending on how risk averse we are. So that's subjective and you won't get any clear answer as there isn't one. I just personally think its not worth the risks when riding in areas where higher than normal risks are being pointed out to us - i.e road works, schools etc as its under those condition we're most likely to be affected by unexpected circumstances or affect others. I just think there's a time and a place for it and I will be the first to hold my hand up to a bit of enthusiastic riding on occasion.
 
jdcxxx, you say you can overtake safely in post 21. However, in the opening post you talk about forcing your way into a gap which is not big enough by snapping the throttle closed and dabbing the brake. Forcing the vehicle behind to slow down.
Maybe you need to think about what your putting on the posts - and your riding, as it does not make you look like a competent rider.
 
Packer said:
I took that to mean only overtake if you can complete the manouvre legally. If a muppet speeds up as you try and pass him/her use your performance to safely complete the overtake. Then look out for an ill conceived, stupid, badly executed and downright dangerous "take back" from said muppet and expect them to sit on your back wheel until they get past you. :D
Click to expand...

Now we are only talking "ideal" here not real world, but from the point of view of advanced riding you have the wrong end of the stick.
I you start an overtake, you should only do so if safe and the road clear for you to do so, if as you overtake the vehicle being overtaken starts to speed up then the "book" says brake and pull in behind, if you are overtaking into a gap then even more so as the book says NEVER, accelerate into a closing gap, in fact you should never accelerate into any gap, you should be braking into a gap, at least thats what the book says.
Oh and this is the book:- http://www.learnerstuff.co.uk/motor...-235485.html?gclid=CMC1p_CRs70CFXMPtAodVysA6w
 
Beemerman59 said:
Most on here including myself won't know the road you're on about so have to take clues from what you post. I think the legality is clear as has been pointed out in several posts. The safety side is down to you're own personal risk assessment based only on your own judgement. We all think differently and will take varying amounts of risk depending on how risk averse we are. So that's subjective and you won't get any clear answer as there isn't one. I just personally think its not worth the risks when riding in areas where higher than normal risks are being pointed out to us - i.e road works, schools etc as its under those condition we're most likely to be affected by unexpected circumstances or affect others. I just think there's a time and a place for it and I will be the first to hold my hand up to a bit of enthusiastic riding on occasion.
Click to expand...

Point taken, but I must have overstated the danger quite a bit. If it was dangerous I wouldn't be doing it. Equally subjective I know but I'm old enough to know my own abilities.
 
stever1 said:
jdcxxx, you say you can overtake safely in post 21. However, in the opening post you talk about forcing your way into a gap which is not big enough by snapping the throttle closed and dabbing the brake. Forcing the vehicle behind to slow down.
Maybe you need to think about what your putting on the posts - and your riding, as it does not make you look like a competent rider.
Click to expand...

I've just reread my opening post and there is absolutely no mention of forcing my way into a small gap so I'm not sure where you got that from???
 
from post 1

manoeuvre is to move up to the gap, snap the throttle closed and slide in with a quick back brake tap

sounds dodgy to me.
 
Packer said:
That video may be worth a watch if only for the complete failure of the instructor/observer to pull up the trainee/associate for riding on the white line and passing within inches of a pedestrian walking in the road at the junction, ~2:22 - 2:23 into the clip. The trainee didn't even see the walker, I'm not sure the instructor did either.
Click to expand...

Made me wince when I saw it :)


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