Page 9 of 9 FirstFirst ... 789
Results 129 to 139 of 139

Thread: Basecamp and Nav 5.......... My way .............

  1. #129
    New Member (less than 15 Posts)
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    North Carolina, US
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by Wapping View Post
    ihovercraft, to save a lot of people guessing (and being near enough convinced from your answers that most - if not all - of your problems are down to user error mixed in with your preference settings) may I point you towards:

    http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthr...Garmin-devices

    It really is worth a read through, followed by some hands on experimentation.
    OK, I have met with some success, thanks to all of you! I got routing to work! Hurrah! I made a simple 5 mile loop around my town and it worked flawlessly. But, in the process have discovered another snag I don't get. I loaded the route, selected the point "second" in line (so i didn't start at my house). I started the route and went to the gas station to see what would happen if I got off the route. It did recalculate but it was trying to get me the the original "second" point in line, not the nearest place to rejoin the route which was further down the line. I skipped this point and it then rejoined my route because the next point was further down the route. I got off the route again later (on purpose) and it got really confused. What I am hoping to find out: If you get off your route at some point, is the GPS going to try to get you to the last "select next destination" point you manually selected (in my case the "third" point in line since I skipped the "second" point, the point closest to where you left the route or to the end of the route?
    I really appreciate all of your help. I feel like it should be recalculating to get you back on the route, but it doesn't seem to work that way.

  2. #130
    New Member (less than 15 Posts)
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    North Carolina, US
    Posts
    13
    One more bit of info. I made two routes this evening. One had a number of points. The other was a copy of this, but in basecamp I highlighted the points and changed them from "alert on arrival" to "don't alert on arrival" so that the final route only had a starting and ending waypoint.

    On the first route, I got off the route and it tried to reroute me to the last waypoint I missed, which would require a large amount of backtracking and then a u-turn to get headed in the right direction. That seems sort of stupid. I could skip this waypoint and others and eventually get right, but only because I knew the area I was in. If I was really lost this would be more difficult.
    On the second track with only 2 waypoints, beginning and end, I got off track and it did try to route me to the end point, however, it did so on the most direct way, ignoring my planned route altogether. I tried to cut out about 3 miles of route during recalculation

    'm sure this is totally tendious to most of you and most of this is notes for future use. It is frustrating because I can't trust this device to take me on my planned route right now. I'm sure I am making the routes correctly, but don't understand the routing on the device.

  3. #131
    Subscriber Click here to find out how to Subscribe
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Wapping, London
    Posts
    44,150
    If you get off your route at some point, is the GPS going to try to get you to the last "select next destination" point you manually selected (in my case the "third" point in line since I skipped the "second" point, the point closest to where you left the route or to the end of the route?
    You have your device set to recalculate your pre-set route automatically. Should you go off route, say to find a gas station, your device wiil:

    (A) Recalculate automatically, as that is what you have instructed the device to do

    (B) Route you to the next known waypoint (in your example, the 'third' point, as you'd already skipped the 'second' point) as that is the target destination you had set your device to take you to

    When making recalculations, the device will redraw (recalculate) the magenta line, according to your preference settings. In other words, if you have set your preferences to always take the most direct route (as opposed to taking the fastest route) and to always avoid U-turns and minor roads and to always avoid roads that we Brits call 'motorways', then the device will do just that; it will do it's utmost to avoid them all, as that is what you have told the device your preference always is.

    Note: There is a chance that in carrying out a recalution and its redrawing of the route, that the device might re-draw it so that it matches your original route exactly. A possible reason for this is because there is only one possible combination of roads that will take you from your 'off route' gas station to your next pre-set destination, being the 'third' point. A second possible reason is that the device may pick up on some 'shaping points' within the route you created yourself and direct you to one of these first (and hence back onto your now recalculated original route) and then onwards to your next waypoint, point 'three'.

    There are several ways to avoid this happening. Let's start with just one, though it is regarded as a heresy in some quarters. Me? I don't care as the devices are the owners' slaves, there to do the owners' bidding in any way the owner likes. Turn your auto-recalculation to OFF or set it to PROMPTED. Prompted is when the screen flashes up a warning message that you have gone off route and asks for permission to recalculate yes or no; it may also scream a verbal warning in your ear; I don't know if this happens as I don't use sound whilst riding. Tap, no. This will leave your original route running on the screen (it won't alter *) and you'll see it scrolling away as the vehicle's position cursor moves further away in search of gas. In short, you are now using the screen as an old fashioned map. Find your gas station, fill up and simply ride back to the unaltered magenta line. Job done. Try it, if you like the method, use it. If you don't then use one of the alternative methods....




    * Having said "It won't alter", it WILL (or at least, might) alter if you have the preference 'Automaticaly skip waypoints' set to ON. Set to on, overrides an instruction / preference not to recalculate. I discocovered this by chance. Like many things in these advanced GPS devices, it's been brought in as bikers demanded that if they (the rider) missed out a waypoint it can only be because they - and they alone - had done so by choice, so of course they want the dumb device to miss it out automatically, too. This removes previous moans, where bikermates complain that their device is continuously routing them back to a point that they no longer wished to visit, though they had made it a waypoint, which had told the device that they MUST go there or hell would descend and the oceans freeze.

    Where this leap of consumer driven demand falls down is where an owner is riding a route: A start, B coffee stop to meet friends, C a lunch stop and D, the end. If, when riding between say A and B, there is a significant road closure or deviation (sufficient to trigger the recalculate yes or no function) the device, despite being told not to recalculate, will - of its own volition - decide that the owner wants to miss out B (why else might they be way off route) and activate the 'Auto skip' function. The hapless rider will then be frustrated that he is now being routed to C, missing out B entirely and not meeting his friends, who will all think him a complete idiot and never talk to him again.

  4. #132
    Subscriber Click here to find out how to Subscribe
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Wapping, London
    Posts
    44,150
    Now, let's look at post #130

    Good news! I am happy to say that you are learning, though it probably doesn't feel like it. You have learnt that you can alter points on the route from 'announced waypoints' (points that you have instructed the device that you must go through, unless you instruct the device to skip them out) into 'unannounced shaping points', points that you created yourself to do nothing more than pull ('shape' in Garmin's words) the magenta route line to follow specific roads of your choice. You can alter a shaping point into a waypoint and alter a waypoint into a shaping point as often as you like. You can do this from within BaseCamp on your Mac or from within the GPS device itself. Just as a slight aside, the words 'announced' and 'unannounced' only tell you that the point will either be announced to you over your headphones or that it won't.

    In post #131, I tried to explain how auto-recalculation of pre-made routes works. It is a little complicated as there are all sorts of variables that creep in, not least how (and sometimes why) an owner creates their routes in the first place, the owner's preference settings and not least how they chose to operate their device on the move from one day to the next.

    The truth is Garmin have created a device which is targeted, in part at least, at owners who never want or need to create their own routes at all *. They simply want to ask the dumb (but really incredibly clever) device to create a route for them to take them from A to B or from A to D, via B and C. When doing so, the owner has instructed the device to adhere to a number of preferences when it comes to route creation. Examples of preference settings might be: To always avoid motorways and to only ever take what the device's software and algorithms perceive to be windy or twisty roads. The majority of these owners will, in all probablity, always set their device to auto-recalate ON. Why? Two reasons:

    1. They didn't didn't do any of the route creation themselves, the device / Garmin did it all for them, adhering as closely as it could to its owner's preference settings. They are very happy that the device, 'just does it'.

    2. They sure as hell want the absolute comfort that, should they accidentally stray or get deviated by a road closure or they simply decided to ride away the device's created route on purpose - say to find a gas station - that they will still have the device continuously offering up (recalculate, in other words) a route that ensures that they will still always arrive at B, or at C, D, E.... X, Y and finally Z.... and they certainly do not ever want to be routed down motorways, as they have set their device's preferences to specifically avoid them.

    All this whilst the owner concentrates on the important tasks of using the same dumb device to play music, take and make phone calls, warn them about the weather, tell them their average speed, maximum speed, sunrise and sunset times, tyre pressures, how often they have changed gear and / or applied the brakes, whilst controlling their onboard video cameras and talking to their riding buddies (as they call them) all whilst they hoon along, blindly following the magenta line without a care in the world. It really is absolute genius; a plastic brick of widgets that will take its owner across continents, entertain and inform them, all at the same time as keeping them safely on route.

    However, this ability sometimes comes at a cost. The selfsame ability of a device to always do something in a certain way, might bring it into conflict with an owner who, because he wants to create his own routes from A to B or A to Z via all the letters in between, might well expect the device to operate differently than it does. This conflict is then possibly excacerbated if the owner cannot understand why or worse, is not prepared to learn why and / or how to deal with it if it does.

    The simple truth is, the devices are, despite all their complexity, still only simple at heart. The best way to learn is to use it. Yes, you'll make mistakes and you'll maybe find a way that works for you and not for anyone else. That doesn't matter, they are personal computers of a sort, use them as personally as you like.

    Ask your questions on here, too....




    * If in doubt, see posts where owners of very expensive Nav V and Nav VI (and equivalent) devices tell us that they don't have time (they are so busy) to faff about as they put it, creating routes for THEIR holidays. They also tell us that they purposely avoid learning how to do it, as it's too hard, BaseCamp / Mapsource is crap, the weather might change and not least, that Garmin's decision to base their mapping software outside of Google maps is an act of stupidity, equal to sticking your tongue into the house's main electricity supply. They are though more than happy for someone to create Garmin friendly files for them and their six mates to ride for the full duration of their 10 day holiday, always taking awsome roads, past biker friendly cafes, ending in secure hotels where the hotelier will drop his strides to accommodate their every bikermate wish. That these same bods will encounter some other GPS related problem, is all but inevitable. That will of course be Garmin's fault, too.

  5. #133
    Subscriber Click here to find out how to Subscribe
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Nottingham
    Posts
    1,506
    Quote Originally Posted by lhovercraft View Post
    One more bit of info. I made two routes this evening. One had a number of points. The other was a copy of this, but in basecamp I highlighted the points and changed them from "alert on arrival" to "don't alert on arrival" so that the final route only had a starting and ending waypoint.

    On the first route, I got off the route and it tried to reroute me to the last waypoint I missed, which would require a large amount of backtracking and then a u-turn to get headed in the right direction. That seems sort of stupid. I could skip this waypoint and others and eventually get right, but only because I knew the area I was in. If I was really lost this would be more difficult.
    On the second track with only 2 waypoints, beginning and end, I got off track and it did try to route me to the end point, however, it did so on the most direct way, ignoring my planned route altogether. I tried to cut out about 3 miles of route during recalculation

    'm sure this is totally tendious to most of you and most of this is notes for future use. It is frustrating because I can't trust this device to take me on my planned route right now. I'm sure I am making the routes correctly, but don't understand the routing on the device.
    Never ever ever ever ever let the Nav V recalculate. After being re routed a way I simply didn't want to go by doing this my golden rule now is Nav set to prompted, so I get a quick warning I have fecked up and took a wrong turn, hit NO, when asked if I want it to recalculate. Then I simply look in my mirror, indicate to pull in by applying some front brake do a quick turn and find the route again by using my own grey matter, don't worry it will only be 100 metres or so behind you. When back on the route things will continue as normal as if it never happened.

  6. #134
    Subscriber Click here to find out how to Subscribe
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Wapping, London
    Posts
    44,150
    Never ever ever ever ever let the Nav V recalculate.
    Wonkey has hit on a method that works for him. See posts #131 and #132. Leaving aside that some owners will be absolutely lost if they turn recalculate off, where his quick stop and turnaround method fails is where he's ridden onto say a dual carriageway and the next junction or roundabout is five or more miles away. Meanwhile others will think that turning off recalculation is a heresy and not required; they may well be right, too.

    That being said, I find Wonkey's way works for me too, not least as it removes at a stroke any possible variables brought in through the act of recalculation. Yes, it makes you think but hey, that's not too hard. Not least, it leaves me, the device's owner and master, in charge of it and not it dominating me. Though I also wanted to learn how recalculate works, as it has its uses for sure. I will use it, when I chose to.

    The best tip I can give if someone really does feel as if his sat nav is self-destructing and about to ruin the owner's life forever, is to stop in a safe place. Stop the route. Summon it up again from the device's memory, where an unamended version will lurk. Look at it on the screen, zooming in and a bit if required and then.... think calmly and rationally before doing anything else. You can do it, not least as you are cleverer than a dumb box of widgets that can only ever do what it is told to do..... oh, and DO take a decent map, too!

  7. #135
    Subscriber Click here to find out how to Subscribe
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Jersey
    Posts
    375
    + 1 for recalculate when prompted this is what i do. Every time the device recalculates it has the potential to change your route.

    To really get a feel of how your device works create a track on your test routes you have been using and apply it to your Nav V. I use them all the time as a reference of my routes.

    Once applied test your routes again and deliberately ride off route you will see your track on the map and also notice which shaping point the device is trying to navigate you to.
    However when doing this if your recalculate is set to prompted use the yes option in your tests and make sure there are a few waypoints in your route with multiple shaping points between them, so it doesn't route you directly to the destination waypoint after recalculating. Its quite an eye opener of how the device uses shaping points.

    How to create a track?
    In Basecamp in the lower LH window, next to the map, is your route you will have made with listed waypoints the route signified by two green squares and car icon(if using the driving activity profile). right click on this icon and select "create track from selected route".

    Below is for a 590 may be different on a Nav V

    After you have sent the route gpx file to the Zumo the track will have been sent with it, once data has been imported, select Apps --> Tracks --> select the created track --> Top LHS touch spanner icon --> tick show on map --> set colour scroll up and select black (seems to stand out best) save This may seem quite a ball ache but really it takes seconds to set up. Also very easy to delete.

    Then activate your route the usual way Apps --> trip planner --> select route you will notice the track down the centre of the road on your map it never changes if the device recalculates you can visibly see (probably have to zoom out to get a clear picture) where its trying to route you.

  8. #136
    New Member (less than 15 Posts)
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    North Carolina, US
    Posts
    13
    I have to say that you guys are great. Thanks for all of the help. I was pondering the recalculating thing on the way to work and wondering if that might be the issue. I come from a background of dual-sport riding and the GPS units we use (GPSMap 62) for that have recalc turned off because if you are out in the woods, 1) getting lost is normal and 2) a reroute could get you in trouble fast so I am comfortable with turning it to prompted.

    I think my confusion about this came in when I expected the unit to find the closest path to rejoin the route, not some "point" on the route. And I really didn't expect it to "ignore" my route. But it does make some sense why it does this for certain conditions.

    I know most riders don't plan routes in basecamp, but I really enjoy this and I would say most of my riding is based upon exploring the area I live in. Plus, I like making the routes!

    When dual-sport riding I always make a route and a backup track, as Jersey GS suggested, so that if you get really lost, you can follow the track. I just assumed on a super expensive GPS that wasn't needed, but, as said, this is a dumb if very clever bit of equipment.

    I have a much better understanding of how this works now thanks to you guys!

  9. #137
    Subscriber Click here to find out how to Subscribe
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Wapping, London
    Posts
    44,150
    Great. Stay with it; it and it's sister BaseCamp really is a fantastic tool.

    I agree that it might seem odd that it doesn't just join you to the nearest point on your pre-made route. To be fair, few Garmin devices (if any) can do it, the nearest being the instruction to 'Navigate to highlighted route', which is Garmin speak for "Work out how to get from here to there on your own, my friend, and if you've already recalculated the route once or twice whist hunting for fuel, well I have no idea if what you are left with is any use to you. Byeeeee"

    Deviating off a route and back onto it can be done in several ways, worthy of a whole thread on their own, confused or not by the myriad of ways bods create routes, their preference settings, their understanding of the device's limitations and sometimes incredible powers and their willingness to try.

    Get comfortable with using your device, so that little surprises you. Muck about, too. The great thing is that you really can't break it and you can always turn it off.

  10. #138
    Subscriber Click here to find out how to Subscribe
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    31
    Great advice in this thread.

    A minor point I found when trying 'prompt to recalculate' was that I had a number of occasions when the signal was weak and the NAV assumed I had gone off course when I hadn't resulting in the 'prompt - yes or no' window obscuring the screen and the map beneath. This typically happened around junctions when I didn't want to be touching the screen but would have liked to have seen the magenta line (my comfort blanket!) For me, just turning recalc off in the settings was a better solution.

  11. #139
    Subscriber Click here to find out how to Subscribe
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Jersey
    Posts
    375
    Quote Originally Posted by GarryM View Post
    Great advice in this thread.

    A minor point I found when trying 'prompt to recalculate' was that I had a number of occasions when the signal was weak and the NAV assumed I had gone off course when I hadn't resulting in the 'prompt - yes or no' window obscuring the screen and the map beneath. This typically happened around junctions when I didn't want to be touching the screen but would have liked to have seen the magenta line (my comfort blanket!) For me, just turning recalc off in the settings was a better solution.
    This often happens on the 590 too, especially when entering/leaving motorway junctions, and very annoying too! Especially so when there is short distance to another turn off.
    Sometimes it can take three or four attempts to activate no button when prompted for "offf route recalculate?" not something you want to be distracted with if stressing about junction exits especially in heavy traffic, and if its a hard looping exit you really don't want to be taking your hand off the bars trying to tap the no button, unless your awesome on the bends

    I'm used to the alert now so ignore it till i am safe to tap the button. I try to make a mental note of the voice instructions (if i can hear it) through the headset.

    I've never turned off recalculate altogether maybe should give it a try.

Page 9 of 9 FirstFirst ... 789

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Anyone attending a Ride Out or Event organised through the UKGSer Forums does so at their own risk.
UKGSer.com or anyone organising an event posted here will not be held responsible in any way for damage or personal injury sustained while attending any such events.

Members attending any such event do so at their own risk.

The text, images, graphics, sound files, animation files, video files, and their arrangement on this Website are all subject to copyright and other intellectual property protection. These objects may not be copied for commercial use or distribution, nor may these objects be modified or reposted to other sites without prior written permission.

Disclaimer: Use or depiction of the BMW logo or trademark throughout this web site is for illustrative and editorial purposes only, and to the benefit of the trademark owner, with no intention of infringement of the trademark.

The UKGSer Forums may include adult content for which it cannot be held responsible. Your use of this website constitutes acceptance of the UKGSER network privacy policy

"Its about being a grown up hooligan - and if that means a dark visor, remus open pipe and a bit of speeding out of town then all well and good"