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Thread: Watsonian Monaco

  1. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueranger View Post
    Road test ready at last!

    After crashing out numerous bitty jobs that needed doing I finally got to have a ride of the rig....weird...really, very weird....but in a good way!
    Years ago I had a Panther 120 (650cc) outfit with a Watsonian Monza chair. I'd bought it in Colwyn Bay and was riding it enthusiastically back to Anglesey, along (what was then) the twisty coast road. I thought I was heading too fast into a right hander so rolled off the throttle and very quickly found myself heading into the opposite carriageway. It terrified me, my passenger and an oncoming car driver. So, if you haven't ridden an outfit before be careful what you do with the throttle and brakes in corners .

  2. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomcat View Post
    Years ago I had a Panther 120 (650cc) outfit with a Watsonian Monza chair. I'd bought it in Colwyn Bay and was riding it enthusiastically back to Anglesey, along (what was then) the twisty coast road. I thought I was heading too fast into a right hander so rolled off the throttle and very quickly found myself heading into the opposite carriageway. It terrified me, my passenger and an oncoming car driver. So, if you haven't ridden an outfit before be careful what you do with the throttle and brakes in corners .

    HaHa, Reminds me of my first ride on an outfit. The M60 to the M62 was one of the more scary bits I seem to remember.



    Val.
    You know!?, it's the people who live in the land that always seem to make it more beautiful than it already appears.


  3. #19
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    Looking good; you've put an awful lot of work into this outfit

  4. #20
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    Ive been riding motorbikes for 50 years! yeah I know. But I've never been near an outfit, but I recon it looks great fun, if a tad scary. Maybe one day.
    Yours looks a great job. Bit technical setting it all up by the looks.

  5. #21
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    really good job, watching with interest

  6. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomcat View Post
    So, if you haven't ridden an outfit before be careful what you do with the throttle and brakes in corners .
    Indeed I've been "mentally " preparing for riding the outfit as much as one can but yes acutely aware of how the throttle affects direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
    Looking good; you've put an awful lot of work into this outfit
    Thanks Kenny, yes it has been quite a project. Good though. Dabbling with welding has been the hardest part and most essential. Some of the build threads on here have been helpful in preparing for the inevitable faff that goes with changing something and then the corresponding other adaptions that need to be made.

    More mods still planned. I intend to put brakes on the chair at some point.

    Also planning to put power, interior lighting and a stereo in there to keep the little one amused.

    Though I am going to have to put stiffer springs in the shocks it's like riding a seesaw.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimeroo View Post
    . Maybe one day.
    Yours looks a great job. Bit technical setting it all up by the looks.
    Thanks for the kind words. Yes getting the structural relationship between the bike and chair is the hard part.

    The oilhead is a difficult bike to fit a chair to as it has no frame. It would be alot easier with a 1200 bandit, fazer 1000 or kwak ZRX12. But all those three will need leading link forks so it's swings and roundabouts. It's taken 3 or 4 attempts to get the struts in the right place. Only a good ride now will tell if I've got it anywhere near right.

    Quote Originally Posted by fatboytours View Post
    really good job, watching with interest
    Thankyou, didn't think anyone was really interested hence why I didn't post much. I captured most of the build on a private Facebook group.

  7. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueranger View Post
    ............................

    Thankyou, didn't think anyone was really interested hence why I didn't post much. I captured most of the build on a private Facebook group.
    Nah, I've been watching too I've had outfits on and off all my biking life (the blue Guzzi on p1 was mine for a while).

    I reckon it looks like you've done a great job so far. Have you copied an existing mounting system or done it off your own back? The reason I ask, and I'll admit I'm not au fait with mounting onto a GS, is that the front upper strut behind the cylinder doesn't look like it'll provide much support given the angle you've had to mount it?

    Have you read Fanum's detailed thread on here about building a GS based outfit? If not have a search, there's loads of info there.

    Andres
    Doris doesn't give a fuck...be more like Doris!



  8. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueranger View Post

    Though I am going to have to put stiffer springs in the shocks it's like riding a seesaw.
    .
    Give Hagon a call, they advise many on the right spring for outfits.

  9. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
    Give Hagon a call, they advise many on the right spring for outfits.
    Mmmmm..........they advised on a set of replacement shocks for the Guzzi outfit you sold me and they were way too soft when I fitted them. IIRC Val H had a similar experience with them? LINKY

    Andres
    Doris doesn't give a fuck...be more like Doris!



  10. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outtomunch View Post
    Nah, I've been watching too I've had outfits on and off all my biking life (the blue Guzzi on p1 was mine for a while).
    I've kicked myself ever since for not buying that rig...it keeps popping up every so often with a Nelson style "Ha Ha" just to haunt me!

    Quote Originally Posted by Outtomunch View Post
    Have you copied an existing mounting system or done it off your own back? The reason I ask, and I'll admit I'm not au fait with mounting onto a GS, is that the front upper strut behind the cylinder doesn't look like it'll provide much support given the angle you've had to mount it?
    Essentially the sub-frame was made by a guy called Rod Young suggested previously on here). That gave me 5 points that I could connect to. The tube, clamps and some eyelets came with the sidecar and I bought the turnbuckles from a motorsport company in Scotland as they come in varying lengths.

    I ended up "welding" (in so far as I managed to melt a metal rod and got it to stick to 2 other bits of metal) A section of angle iron onto the sidecar to get the trianglular setup that is so important.

    I still may install a further arm from the telemount over the cylinder to that high up mount on the sidecar frame as I have some unused struts one of which is already crooked.



    You can't really see it very well, but there is sub frame than connects to a pannier rail mounting, the top of the shock mount and then picks up the rider foot peg before connecting to the lower frame.






    here is a picture of the sub frame parts



    Quote Originally Posted by Outtomunch View Post
    Have you read Fanum's detailed thread on here about building a GS based outfit? If not have a search, there's loads of info there.
    I did yes, I wish I had Gert's welding skills and tools. It was a good source of inspiration and the point I decided that its a GS rig that I really wanted, anything else would have been second best.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
    Give Hagon a call, they advise many on the right spring for outfits.
    I may give them a call, bare in mind the shock preload is on full and its still a bit soft although I did set it up unloaded which will be factor.

  11. #27
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    You say you're going to fit stiffer springs which is all well and good but you need to 'balance' the shock on the chair with the one on the bike or the bike will pitch from side to side with the easiest way out of it being to accelerate through it but that means you still need to go back through the wobbly zone at some point in the future when you slow down

    I sorted mine out by putting a fairly hard spring on the shock fitted to the chair and screwing the damping up to near maximum then fitting a good shock to the bike and adjusting rebound and damping to match it. I've found that I need to adjust the shock on the chair to suit different loads much more than the one on the bike so get one that's easy to adjust or you'll be getting very frustrated when the bike doesn't do what you want it to. You also need to remember that once you're used to it you'll start lifting the chair on purpose and cheap shocks don't like hard landings

  12. #28
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    HI Andy,

    The shock thats on the chair at the moment is quite stiff as its intended to be a touring chair and carry quite a bit which for now as my daughter is only small her weight plus luggage might still be a bit light.

    The rig struggles a bit with left turns so I suspect it is too hard....and is not allowing the bike to lean onto the side car and tilt into the bend. On right handers its really solid and tracks really well I feel like I could really gas it.

    you can just see the shock on this picture, not a great design to be honest.



    I'm already planning developemnt of the suspension anyway as the stub axel is a bit small for the wheel and I want fit brakes to it.
    So I may end up completely redesigning the suspension to put a more traditional vertical set up on as I have a front hub, disk and caliper from a clio which uses a 4x100PCD.

    The tub is ideal for what I need so its worth developing it, but I may experiment with a softer spring on the tub to see if that helps.

    The steering wobble is fairly minimal actually and its solid at speed. I just needed to set the bike up so that it leans into the sidecar when unladen so that when its loaded its slightly leaning out and it handles much better as a result.

    Took the wife, sprog and dog upto the local bike meet yesterday at rivi.


  13. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueranger View Post
    HI Andy,

    The shock thats on the chair at the moment is quite stiff as its intended to be a touring chair and carry quite a bit which for now as my daughter is only small her weight plus luggage might still be a bit light.

    The rig struggles a bit with left turns so I suspect it is too hard....and is not allowing the bike to lean onto the side car and tilt into the bend. On right handers its really solid and tracks really well I feel like I could really gas it.

    The steering wobble is fairly minimal actually and its solid at speed. I just needed to set the bike up so that it leans into the sidecar when unladen so that when its loaded its slightly leaning out and it handles much better as a result.
    I'm a long way short of being even close to competency when it comes to outfits and their set up but your issues with steering sound more like geometry issues rather than suspension. You need to get the lead, toe in and lean bang on the mark with the lean being more relevant to straight line tracking than cornering.

    I'm away from home so don't have my laptop or note book (the paper variety) with me because they'd help me remember what changed what when I was doing the original build in my old K100/Watsonian outfit. I set everything 'to the book' then changed one thing at a time to see what happened with the intention of getting it so I could steer it on the throttle. Toe in and lead make a lot of difference and I've got it in my head that lead made the most drastic changes to how the bike steered then the toe fine tuned it but that was nearly 10 years ago so many pints have passed my lips since then.

    Check everything using a plank for toe and a plumb line for lean then make some changes and see what happens. Don't do your road tests on roads with a heavy camber or you'll be wasting your time 😀

  14. #30
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    Spured on by a few recent outfit threads I remembered I'd not updated this thread for while.

    Out for a quick ride from belmont to rivi

    https://www.flickr.com/gp/51176983@N02/16P7NJ

    All loaded up for a trip to scotland for a few days

    https://www.flickr.com/gp/51176983@N02/136Sm4

    Since the last update I ended up having make a lower "sub frame"

    https://www.flickr.com/gp/51176983@N02/HREg8Q

    This involved some u bolts and Rolled Steel Angle...and some box section.

    Yes I know my melting of a welding rod to stick bits of metal together is beyond dog rough....bit its what happens when you try and weld 4mm angle with a 110amp max arc welder and a 2mm rod.

    This eventually gave the rigidity I was looking for with the clearance I wanted between the bike and chair.

    Widening the gap has enabled fitment of the metal mule panniers.

    So I got some 18mm tube and made some hoops

    https://www.flickr.com/gp/51176983@N02/Z9ATz2

    Following a run upto applecross for a few days it became evident on the motorways that the tow in on the chair is not enough, uphills at 60mph plus were a really hard work requiring constant firm pressure to keep a straightline. Very tough on the arms and shoulders.

    The outfit has a sweet spot of about 45mph when its great fun and it single along with a rolling on and off the throttle and its great fun.

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