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Thread: Standard vs PCV vs AF-XIED

  1. #1
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    Standard vs PCV vs AF-XIED

    Thought I'd start a thread on my experience with moving from a PCV to the AF-XIED units. Might be of interest to someone.
    I'm not making any comments on a remap as I haven't had any experience of them. Think anything to be said about them has already been said on the forum. Many times!
    Only one I would consider would be Hilltop and living in Northern Ireland, the cost would be prohibitive. My wife would say, if I told her.
    Haven't heard of anyone in Ireland who would give me any confidence remapping GS's.
    I've removed and already sold the PCV along with an Autotune unit. The sale price pretty much covers the cost of the AF-XIED dual units.
    Currently waiting for the AF-XIED units to arrive. In London at the moment.
    The idea is to give an account of the installation of the units and the differences in performance as they happen. Will take photos of the install.
    There has been much talk on the forum about the benefits of these units and lots of technical info, but I'm just going to look at it from the aspect of the average punter.
    If they're crap, I will say so!

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    how did you pay for the AF-XIED have you been stung with import tax

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    Bought from Beemerboneyard using PayPal, no problem.
    They don't add any import tax, down to the individual customer.
    It's in the UK at the moment according to the tracking.
    Not sure how or if I could get hit with any duty. Have bought a couple of things from the States before without any problems.

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    If you look up BettySwollocks on here he tracked some one down over the border that did ECU Flashing I think he has been happy with it

    Edit Linky found
    Oh Great and Wise Deity, Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,

    Courage to change the things I can! And the wisdom to know the difference!

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    Quote Originally Posted by comberjohn View Post
    Bought from Beemerboneyard using PayPal, no problem.
    They don't add any import tax, down to the individual customer.
    It's in the UK at the moment according to the tracking.
    Not sure how or if I could get hit with any duty. Have bought a couple of things from the States before without any problems.
    i bought some shocks for a bike last year. ended up paying £170 tax. i would of just sent them back for a refund be that was not an option

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    Hi Jay.
    Followed that thread last year and it was the main thing that convinced me to give up on the idea of a remap and buy a PCV.
    May be wrong but looking at that Dublin tuners website for the two BMW twins that he has mapped, he mentions that he needs to know what mods, if any, have been done if the ECU is posted down to him.
    I seem to remember reading that with a Hilltop remap, the bike still makes use of the adaptive abilities of the original ECU. Change an exhaust and the ECU will compensate for it over a period of time. Clever.
    This would indicate one of two possibilities to me.
    He's not really that familiar with the BMW ECU or, what he is doing is not the same thing as Hilltop.
    Re read the thread and while BettySwollocks was happy with the increase in performance, the fuel consumption had increased dramatically. Using another 10mpg from before!
    I removed the PCV a week or so ago and have covered about 200 miles in standard tune since. My fuel consumption has actually increased by a couple of mpg!
    As I said, haven't found anyone over here that I would feel confident about using. For a remap, it would be Hilltop or nothing.

    So, as Bendy remarked, why the hell did I remove the PCV if it was so good!
    Firstly, the PCV is a great plug and play thing. Easily installed in under an hour and the difference is immediate. Smooth gear changes, smoother engine and pulls like a train from low down up to the red line. Plus fractionally better fuel consumption.
    The downsides are that the connectors, of which there are many, are designed for California not Ireland. But this can be overcome with some self amalgamating tape. The other thing that slightly concerned me was the fact that the O2 sensors had to be disconnected. At that time I didn't know why, it was just a niggle. Was always afraid to remove them completely in case the PCV failed and I would be stuck. Since then I've found out that no O2 sensors wouldn't stop the bike if the PCV were unplugged. Such is the design of the ECU.
    I've been do a lot of reading on this subject over the winter and while I don't pretend to understand the majority of it, I have a better idea on how it works now.
    Much of the research on it has been done over the last few years by an American with a forum name of Roger 04 RT. Like I say, don't understand most of it but what I do understand does seem to make some sense.
    The PCV is an open loop system. That is, it doesn't learn to adapt to changes in temperature, wear, etc. Change an exhaust and filter and you'll need to load a new map or, ideally get it dynoed again.
    It made me realise that the standard ECU is a very clever piece of equipment. Something Hilltop has cottoned on to if their remap is also adaptable to changes.

    I must admit that when I removed the PCV and went out on a run, I did ask myself for a while does the standard engine really need to me modded in any way?
    Of course not! I think that there are variations between bikes, but that mine in standard tune wasn't too bad. Hadn't yet ordered the AF-XiED units and was tempted to keep the money. New tyres needed soon.
    The longer I rode, the more I realised that I was missing the little subtleties I had with the PCV.
    No longer had a surge of power at moderate engine speeds in sixth for overtaking. Just a slight delay in response or else a down change was necessary. That car was getting closer!!
    Think it was Bendy who remarked that he can corner better with a PCV and I understand what he means. Unless in town or in the lower two gears, I had virtually stopped using the clutch. A twitch of the wrist and it changed up or down so easily. Now a twitch doesn't have much effect on the engine response and I find that I'm using the clutch a lot more again.
    There's more vibration than before with a particular thrum at about 5K.
    On Saturday afternoon I was stopped at the lights and I thought it was going to die on me! Just a bit of a hesitation but worrying.
    As I said, fuel consumption is slightly worse now and believe that is down to having to use the lower gears more for riding in traffic. The PCV had made me lazy.
    To get the same adaptability from a PCV as a remap or AF-XiED it would be necessary to fit a couple of wide band O2 sensors along with an Autotune unit that should tweak the fuel all of the time. Big money and even more cables and connectors.

    I have tried a Booster Plug on both my last bike, a K1600GT and my current TC, which I much prefer. On the K16 I did believe that there was an improvement for a while but with the GS, nothing.
    I'm now of the OPINION that the ECU does adapt to it and renders it ineffective on a standard engine. I think what happens is, the rider adapts mentally as the engine returns to standard.
    The Booster Plug is not an option to either a Hilltop remap or a PCV. There is simply no comparison.

    This brings me to the AF-Xied units. It's a bit of a leap of faith for me but I'm hoping that they'll give me the drivability of a PCV with simpler connections and retain the adaptability of the standard ECU.
    If not, then I'll have to eat crow and either look for another PCV or bite the bullet for a Hilltop remap.
    The plan is to take pics on how to fit the units and give some feedback on how they perform and any problems I come across.
    Unfortunately, the R1200 engine needs two units because of the two O2 sensors. Each cylinder is treated independently. Others like a K1200 only need one.

    Hope to have them here and installed by the end of the week. Feel free to ask any questions.

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    You had me scared for a moment, moonhead.
    Due to the nature of the goods, there's no import duty but I may be liable for VAT.
    Remember a guy from the UK had bought one and reported on another forum that he was stung for about £40 which would sound about right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by comberjohn View Post
    You had me scared for a moment, moonhead.
    Due to the nature of the goods, there's no import duty but I may be liable for VAT.
    Remember a guy from the UK had bought one and reported on another forum that he was stung for about £40 which would sound about right.
    iv got a pc on my 1150 gs im relay tempted in getting an AF-Xied and selling my pc keep us updated when is your due to be delivered

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    Will do. As far as I can remember, the 1150 only uses one AF-XiED unit as there is only one O2 sensor. So yours would be a lot cheaper than the R1200 engine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by comberjohn View Post
    Will do. As far as I can remember, the 1150 only uses one AF-XiED unit as there is only one O2 sensor. So yours would be a lot cheaper than the R1200 engine.
    just orded one for the 1150 iv saved a lot on post and import tax. due to my friend is going to see there family in VIRGINIA for 2 week's just mean's ill be waiting longer for it to come id rather wait than pay tax lol

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    Mine just arrived this evening.
    Got hit for just under a tenner for import tax plus vat. Total of £73 including Royal Mail's cut of £8. Ouch!
    Having only one sensor is a big saving. Most other bikes only use the one.
    I notice that Beemerboneyard don't add any tax to the invoice when shipping over here. The UK applies that.
    I'm guessing that if you buy it in the States they'll add their own rate of the equivalent to vat. Wonder how much that'll be?
    Everything looks straight forward enough. Just a matter of plug and play at the sensor plus an earth connection.
    Will fit them tomorrow evening.
    Placed a one pound coin beside one of the units to give an idea of size.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    there was no tax or vat on the part plus i bought an Harmonizer 2 Port Vacuum Tool, Carb & Throttle Body Synchronizer from beemerboneyard.com tax and vat free witch am happy with

  13. #13
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    So, I've fitted the AF-XiED units last Friday evening. Pretty straight forward as expected.
    Handful of nylon cable ties and a few basic tools.
    Remove the plastic covers under the cylinder heads where the O2 connectors live, disconnect them and plug the connectors to the AF-XiED units in line with them.

    As you can see, the new connector seems to be identical to the original so not expecting any problems with water getting in.
    Not a lot of room under the plastic cover when trying to replace it.

    Just a matter of carefully routing the cable back up to where you are going to site the units and making sure that all the cables are neatly cable tied in place.
    I put mine on either side of the air box fixed with double sided tape. Not difficult to get at if you ever wanted to adjust the fuelling but out of the way from prying fingers and rain or washing hoses.
    The units come factory set at number 7. From what I've read, number 8 seems to be the preferred setting for the TC's so gave the dial a little tweak with a small screwdriver. The easy way to check the setting is to count the blinks, not the flashes on the LED, when you switch on the ignition.
    There are 11 graduations on the dial and each one represents 0.1 of an increase to the fuel/air ratio over standard.
    No1 on the dial coincides with the standard ratio which is 14.7 to 1. That is, 14.7 parts air to 1 part fuel. That's mass, not volume.
    So setting number 8 brings the ratio up to something like 13.9 to 1. The standard 14.7 to 1 is fairly weak, but has to be, to pass emission controls nowadays.
    Feel free to butt in, Roger, if I've got anything wrong.
    The PCV that I had on before had the standard European map installed, but when I was fitting an Autotune unit and checked the AFR on the computer, it was very rich at around 13.2 to 1. The weakest setting on the fuel map was still at a high 13.5 to 1.
    The O2 sensor and the exhaust were quite sooty although the bike seemed to be running fine.

    Only thing left to do then is run the two ground wires, one from each unit, to the negative side of the battery. According to Roger, this is the best place to avoid 'noise' from other components or a poor earth.
    Slightly easier than fitting the PCV but a lot tidier to look at.

    Next, the road test.
    Attached Images Attached Images    

  14. #14
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    Well, did it work?
    Was able to get a run out yesterday.
    Firstly, what am I expecting from this modification? I'm not trying to get an out and out power increase. If I wanted 150bhp there's much easier ways of getting it. Like buy a Fireblade. I'm simply looking for more driveabilty.
    I want a smoother, more flexible engine that hasn't developed a drink problem. A modest increase in power would be nice, too.
    I've no dyno chart to wave around the pub, just my own observations based on my experience as a paying customer.

    The first impressions are pretty underwhelming. Having had a PCV and finding an immediate difference when using it, I did wonder if I'd bought another accelerator module at first. I'm guessing that anyone who has had a remap would notice the difference immediately, too.
    No real difference noticed for the first thirty miles or so, first town I passed through there was noticeable surging and the engine still felt stained at low revs. Was still harsh on the open road and from what I've read, my standard engine is not as bad as some.
    On that, mine is a 2010 TC with 25k miles, otherwise standard apart from de catted headers and the flappy valve replaced with a pipe from Nippy Normans.
    First thing I noticed was that it became easier to do clutchless gear changes again. With the PCV it was very easy to nick up and down the top three gears with a twitch of the throttle. Standard, it was easier to use the clutch or else out felt like they 'hooked' slightly due to the throttle not being as responsive.
    Initially, I was trying to use the throttle and gears as much as possible because the ECU had to relearn after making these changes and I was trying to give as wide a range as possible including WOT.
    After about thirty miles when I pulled up at a set of lights I thought it was about to die on me! The tickover had dropped by about 100-200 RPM to around 11 or 1200 RPM. Not hunting about, just quietly ticking over.
    I did around 200 miles yesterday and it just got better and better, but it was very subtle.
    Sitting on the motorway at 4500 RPM in sixth it was very smooth, plus the roll on's in top gear were back.
    I'm sure that if I'd been on a private road it would've pulled strongly from around 50mph in top to 120 plus.
    But it was by the time I was getting near the end of my run out that I got my biggest surprise.
    I was going through a town and it was busy so was just shifting up and down the gears without paying much attention to the revs. Just going by feel, as it were.
    Art one point I was in a low gear and thought 'here we go, feels a bit fluffy now' checked the rev counter and I was riding along at only 1500 RPM!
    Started to monitor it a bit more and realised that I had adapted without realising and was driving in traffic the same as my small turbo diesel car, a new model Clio, and just throwing gears at it and riding the torque. A big flat twin does not need to feel lumpy at low revs!
    From what I've read, it'll take another couple of hundred miles for the ECU to fully adapt but I'm delighted with the results so far. From what I've read, the closed loop part of the system adjusts quickly, with adaptations to the open loop taking a bit longer.
    I reset the average fuel gauge but because I've been using the gears and revs more than normal, it's not a great guide. The consumption does seem to be heading pretty much back to where it was, though.
    Would I recommend it? Absolutely.
    As I've said before, I can give an OPINION on how the AF-XIED compares with a PCV and my opinion is that it is a better solution than the PCV. BMW actually have built a really well managed fuel injection system that is restricted by the required emission controls.
    The AF-XIED units retain that adaptability and allows the ECU to adjust the fueling for a particular bike as it runs in different temperatures and conditions.
    How does compare to a remap? Still have no idea. Never had one.
    My OPINION would be that I would doubt that it is a massive improvement, if any, over these AF-XIED units. But, if anyone out there has experience with both, I'd really be interested in hearing about it.
    The only comment about changing from the PCV to a remap said that while he was pleased with the remap, he felt that it wasn't as good lower down. His experience, not mine.
    As Roger, the guy in Boston who developed it said, you don't need a dynojet to map your engine, it does that itself. If you decide to go for that low mileage, triple black TC or even an LC, you can take it with you. You can buy different connectors for the units for different bikes. The like of A K1200/1300 and earlier twins only use one unit.
    A remap is great if it really is a keeper but was reading recently about one owner who has spent nearly a grand remapping his last three bikes!
    I might've held on to my K1600GT a bit longer off I'd known that these would have fitted. The transmission on it sounded like a bag of spanners through the town.
    Don't waste your money on booster plugs/accelerator plugs or sporty exhausts, air filters, etc. for a better bike, just fit a couple of these. Unfortunately for you, no one will know how cool you are because there's nothing too see.
    Like I said, I'm only a paying customer and have no financial interest in these units. Would just recommend them highly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by comberjohn View Post
    Well, did it work?
    Was able to get a run out yesterday.
    Firstly, what am I expecting from this modification? I'm not trying to get an out and out power increase. If I wanted 150bhp there's much easier ways of getting it. Like buy a Fireblade. I'm simply looking for more driveabilty.
    I want a smoother, more flexible engine that hasn't developed a drink problem. A modest increase in power would be nice, too.
    I've no dyno chart to wave around the pub, just my own observations based on my experience as a paying customer.

    The first impressions are pretty underwhelming. Having had a PCV and finding an immediate difference when using it, I did wonder if I'd bought another accelerator module at first. I'm guessing that anyone who has had a remap would notice the difference immediately, too.
    No real difference noticed for the first thirty miles or so, first town I passed through there was noticeable surging and the engine still felt stained at low revs. Was still harsh on the open road and from what I've read, my standard engine is not as bad as some.
    On that, mine is a 2010 TC with 25k miles, otherwise standard apart from de catted headers and the flappy valve replaced with a pipe from Nippy Normans.
    First thing I noticed was that it became easier to do clutchless gear changes again. With the PCV it was very easy to nick up and down the top three gears with a twitch of the throttle. Standard, it was easier to use the clutch or else out felt like they 'hooked' slightly due to the throttle not being as responsive.
    Initially, I was trying to use the throttle and gears as much as possible because the ECU had to relearn after making these changes and I was trying to give as wide a range as possible including WOT.
    After about thirty miles when I pulled up at a set of lights I thought it was about to die on me! The tickover had dropped by about 100-200 RPM to around 11 or 1200 RPM. Not hunting about, just quietly ticking over.
    I did around 200 miles yesterday and it just got better and better, but it was very subtle.
    Sitting on the motorway at 4500 RPM in sixth it was very smooth, plus the roll on's in top gear were back.
    I'm sure that if I'd been on a private road it would've pulled strongly from around 50mph in top to 120 plus.
    But it was by the time I was getting near the end of my run out that I got my biggest surprise.
    I was going through a town and it was busy so was just shifting up and down the gears without paying much attention to the revs. Just going by feel, as it were.
    Art one point I was in a low gear and thought 'here we go, feels a bit fluffy now' checked the rev counter and I was riding along at only 1500 RPM!
    Started to monitor it a bit more and realised that I had adapted without realising and was driving in traffic the same as my small turbo diesel car, a new model Clio, and just throwing gears at it and riding the torque. A big flat twin does not need to feel lumpy at low revs!
    From what I've read, it'll take another couple of hundred miles for the ECU to fully adapt but I'm delighted with the results so far. From what I've read, the closed loop part of the system adjusts quickly, with adaptations to the open loop taking a bit longer.
    I reset the average fuel gauge but because I've been using the gears and revs more than normal, it's not a great guide. The consumption does seem to be heading pretty much back to where it was, though.
    Would I recommend it? Absolutely.
    As I've said before, I can give an OPINION on how the AF-XIED compares with a PCV and my opinion is that it is a better solution than the PCV. BMW actually have built a really well managed fuel injection system that is restricted by the required emission controls.
    The AF-XIED units retain that adaptability and allows the ECU to adjust the fueling for a particular bike as it runs in different temperatures and conditions.
    How does compare to a remap? Still have no idea. Never had one.
    My OPINION would be that I would doubt that it is a massive improvement, if any, over these AF-XIED units. But, if anyone out there has experience with both, I'd really be interested in hearing about it.
    The only comment about changing from the PCV to a remap said that while he was pleased with the remap, he felt that it wasn't as good lower down. His experience, not mine.
    As Roger, the guy in Boston who developed it said, you don't need a dynojet to map your engine, it does that itself. If you decide to go for that low mileage, triple black TC or even an LC, you can take it with you. You can buy different connectors for the units for different bikes. The like of A K1200/1300 and earlier twins only use one unit.
    A remap is great if it really is a keeper but was reading recently about one owner who has spent nearly a grand remapping his last three bikes!
    I might've held on to my K1600GT a bit longer off I'd known that these would have fitted. The transmission on it sounded like a bag of spanners through the town.
    Don't waste your money on booster plugs/accelerator plugs or sporty exhausts, air filters, etc. for a better bike, just fit a couple of these. Unfortunately for you, no one will know how cool you are because there's nothing too see.
    Like I said, I'm only a paying customer and have no financial interest in these units. Would just recommend them highly.
    thanks for your review carnt wait till mine come's. and sell the pc wideband.there is to may wires and connectors to fail on them things

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    I have a PCV (also dyno'd) so interesting to read about these - I'd never heard of them before your post!

    The downsides are that the connectors, of which there are many, are designed for California not Ireland. But this can be overcome with some self amalgamating tape.
    That's the only thing that I don't like about mine. I can live with the extra wires, but the waterproofness (or lack of) has been an issue a couple of times, causing the bike to run really badly until I disconnect and clean/dry it all out. I've tried silicon grease but that only seem to last for a while, so now I just make sure I have carrier bags covering up that whole area whenever I clean it! Normal rain isn't such an issue.

    I did, after the first water ingress, have a bit of a fit with it and put the whole bike back to standard, but it felt relatively poor to ride. As you say, the low down grunt is massively improved with a PCV, and I found myself stalling occasionally at junctions without it.

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