Running a route on the Nav V / 590 / The latest generation Garmin devices

I have created this thread from posts in another thread in the GPS section, only because the real pearls of wisdom in it might otherwise be lost.

I have edited some of the posts, hopefully maintaining the correct context. I have also embeded the video clips.

My thank to jfneath for a valuable contribution and to the others who added to it all.

One thing to note: The videos show BaseCamp running on a PC; the display is different on a Mac but not too dissimilar. The videos do put the lie to the oft spouted "BaseCamp is shite' nonsense.

Richard


I'm not the only person who was struggling with the new changes to the Zumo 590/390 compared with the 660 and the 550 that I have owned before that.

I have been getting to grips with Basecamp and with the 590, and have worked out a lot more than the Tech support at Garmin seemed to be able to help me with. I thought I'd take the trouble to post some of it back.

First:
The Zumo 590 (and 390) will not talk to MapSource. You have to use Basecamp.
Basecamp gets frequent updates and bug fixes. Check you have the latest.
You should have the same version of maps on both your Pc/Mac and on the Zumo. If not, your route will recalculate and you will end up with a different route being plotted.
Basecamp has a couple of settings in Edit/Options/Device Transfer which seem to cause a route to recalculate when it is transferred to the Zumo. Clear the ticks in this option.


Now some terminology -as Garmin seem to be using some key words in ways that are different from things I have read before. These definitions come from my understanding from using Basecamp and from using the Zumo 590, as well as trying to get some clarification from technical support. All of these terms I have seen used in different ways by different people, and indeed by Garmin.

So - as I understand it:


Waypoint - doesn't refer to a point on a route specifically. A waypoint is a point that exists in the map database - either because it was there originally, or because you have added a new point to the database. You can include waypoints in a route, but a point in a route is not necessarily a waypoint.

Via Point.
Is used by the Zumo to indicate a point on the route which it will insist that you visit. Unlike the 660, if you missed a point on the route (maybe positioned incorrectly up a side road), but continued towards the purple highlighted route, the 660 would continue navigating once you had reached the purple line. The 590 doesn't. It nags you until you have been there - or you can press the skip button. The skip button isn't installed by default, and it is available from the menu button in the bottom right corner. 'Skip' was a added as a later fix to the Zumo software.
Via points will show up in the data display eg as in 'Time to Via', 'Distance to Via'.
The satnav will announce - visually and audibly - your approach to and your arrival at a Via Point.
The 590 gives a list of all of the Via points on your route when you select a route to follow. But it shows ONLY the Via points. It doesn't show any other points.
Via points on the 590 show up as flags in the route and on the map.

Shaping Points
On the 590, Shaping points appear as dots (small filled circles), on the route lists and on the map.
Shaping points are silent. They do not alert on arrival either visually or audibly.
Shaping points do not appear in the list of points presented by the 590 as 'Select Next Destination' options when the route is first loaded.
Shaping points can be ignored if they are slightly inaccurately placed but you remain on the purple route. (eg a point placed just up a side road). If recalculation is turned off, and (say) a new bypass has been built, then recalculation will continue correctly as soon as you join the purple route again. Even if the bypass missed out visiting the shaping point.

Recalculation
Will take place if you have the option turned on. Recalculation always results in the original route from planned in Basecamp being over-ruled and a new route is plotted using the routing preferences that are set in the 590. But it will always calculate a route to the next Via Point or Shaping point.
The notion that you must have the routing preferences set to be the same as was set in Basecamp is a false one. Basecamp has many more preferences. the 590 has 3 - faster, shortest, curvy. (Plus the avoidances of course) You can use the setting to approximate to what you had in Basecamp, but they are only ever used if the Zumo performs a recalculation. Not otherwise.
The zumo knows what was plotted in Basecamp by virtue of the fact that when the route is transmitted to the zumo, it transmits the Star, End, Via and Shaping points that have been plotted, but it also transmits hundreds of invisible intermediate points as GPX extensions. I call them 'Ghost Points' and they force the Zumo to take you along precisely the same roads that were in the route in Basecamp. When the zumo is forced to recalculate, (different maps, going off route), the first thing that gets lost is these extra points in the current section. The Via points and shaping points remain, but the zumo has to calculate its own route in between the last and the present points. To prevent this causing problems, it is better to have more via points and shaping points, and to use these according to whether or not you want them to appear on the lists or in the data displays.

Basecamp.

Here's an example of Garmin using the terms differently. At the time of writing this Garmin seems to imply that all points on a route are via points - which is confusing to say the least.
The distinguishing feature is whether or not they alert on arrival. If they do alert, they are treated as via points when transmitted to the 590. If they do not alert, they are treated as shaping point.

By default, a waypoint (one that is in the database or one that has been placed by you using the flag tool) - when added to the route, will be a via point. If the route tool is used from the menu, or the insert point tool (or CTRL I) is used, they are added as shaping points.

When you visit the edit route window, you can right click on each point and set them to alert on arrival or not alert on arrival (shaping point) - which is handy. What is confusing though, is that the symbol - flag or dot - doesn't change to match how the 590 displays them. A flag shows for a waypoint that is added to the route as a via point. If you change it to a shaping point (do not alert), it remains as a flag in basecamp.

Mentioned earlier. Beware the settings in Edit / Options/ Device transfer. There is an option there to strip out the shaping points when the route is transmitted. The Ghost points will ensure that the route is received by the Zumo correctly, but if the Zumo recalculates, the ghost points are lost, and it can only recalculate by finding its own route from the start to the finish points, which in many cases will be a few metres away from each other for an out and back route.

I have covered a this and much more in a series of short videos working with Basecamp version 4.6.2 and the Zumo 590 software 3.20. I reckon that even if you think you know a lot about it, there will be stuff in here that you didn't know.

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And just a reminder - if you are reading this and you do not use Basecamp or the 590 / 390 you may well have different definitions for some of the above terms. And you may well be right, as the same terms have been used in the past with slightly different meanings. Check the date when reading forum posts and be cautious. Some of these words like waypoint, via point, shaping point are used interchangeably.

Hope you find this little lot useful.

Hi jfheath Thank you for this certainly clears up why routing is lost on recalculation and this is why my 590 is
permanently set to recalculate when prompted.

One thing to be aware of i learned to my annoyance when starting a route if you choose
the destination as the point when asked "where to" in the route list of points instead of the first via point it will
take you to the destination and completely ignore the route planned the fastest way.

I was in Barcelona going to La Rochelle had a route planned through the Pyrenees only realised what was happening when
it was too late at Perpignan wasn't happy!

My 390 and the 590 certainly talk to Mapsource.
I would bin it if I had to use Basecamp.
I find that putting enough Basecamp Waypoints into a route and making sure that the routing settings match between software and Zumo sorts any problems.
They can't invent stuff, they are too stupid. You just have to get the instruction precisely correct.
Well, its worked so far all over the UK, France and Spain.

But I still have the bit of paper with towns and roads scrawled on it in my tankbag. Thats 'cos I'm old.

Good stuff jfheath thanks for taking the time to write this up.

You are correct when you state that if your Zumo has different maps to base camp then it will automatically recalculate during the transfer to device. However there is a setting in base camp that turns this off. I have turned this off (unticked a box in settings) and successfully downloaded my routes from my PC with a slightly older map to that of my recently updated Zumo map. I also successfully downloaded the same routes this weekend onto a friends nuvi which only had 2014 maps. Once this option is turned off it remains that way.

Neil

Jersey_GS said:

Hi jfheath Thank you for this certainly clears up why routing is lost on recalculation and this is why my 590 is
permanently set to recalculate when prompted.

One thing to be aware of i learned to my annoyance when starting a route if you choose
the destination as the point when asked "where to" in the route list of points instead of the first via point it will
take you to the destination and completely ignore the route planned the fastest way.

I was in Barcelona going to La Rochelle had a route planned through the Pyrenees only realised what was happening when
it was too late at Perpignan wasn't happy!

Click to expand...

Thanks for the all of the comments

Yes - I was going to mention that, Jersey GS, but I'd already written far too much.

I did some experiments with what was going on with select next destination. I don't think you are 100% correct in the statement that the route gets completely ignored, although I would be more than happy to be proved wrong on this - I'm learning too. What happened in my tests was that you select your next destination from the list of via points, and the Zumo 590 / 390 calculates its own route using its internal routing preferences and avoidances in order to get you to that point. After that, the satnav follows the route that was plotted in Basecamp and sent to the Zumo (providing that it didn't get recalculated).

It is impossible to guarantee that you will set off from the very spot that you select as your start point or your stopping off for coffee point. I have a few suggestions

My Via Points (including my start point) are carefully positioned so that they are located on the route that I intend to take once I have started, or set off again after coffee. This may be a mile down the road. It is likely to be located just after a road junction on the road I intend to take at that junction. I will call it 'After Freds Café' or something like that.
Then, when I set off, I don't care where I am, I can select the next destination 'After Freds Café' and the satnav will take me to the correct road using its own routing rules. Its only a mile and it will work it out from where I am now. No recalculations involved, my original route doesn't get altered.

But then, I still need to get to Fred's Café. So that goes into the route as a Shaping point - or as a Via Point, depending on the circumstances.

If I put it in as a shaping point, it gives me the opportunity to miss out Freds Café if I want. The satnav will try to take me there, but I can just continue to the purple planned route (which I can pick up along the road at After Freds Cafe' and the satnav will continue its navigation. If Freds Café was just up a side road along which I would have to return, I won't notice anything. If Freds Café involves going into a village and out the other side, then what happens next depends on whether or not you have recalculation on.

If it is on, the satnav will keep attempting to take you to Freds Café, and it will plot a new route to get there. It recalculates, but it only recalculates up to the shaping point at Freds Café, so that's OK. You could press Skip, in which case it will recalculate a route to 'After Freds Cafe' and then resume its original route.

If Recalculation is off, then you will be continuing along roads which do not show the purple route. Zoom out and you will see it plotted along a different route, and you will be able to see the flag indicating the location of After Freds Café. As soon as you get on the purple route again, the satnav will continue to lead you to After Freds Café without any further input from you.

This is why it is important to carefully choose the location of Via points. They need to be on roads which you absolutely, definitely will be riding along, no matter which direction you end up coming from. So the Freds Café turns out to be closed and you end up hunting round the village or going to MacDonalds a mile in the wrong direction, or you decide to miss it out altogether - After Freds Café is placed on the road that you intend to take.

On occasions it might be best to have a point that Nags you to get there - especially if you suspect that it is difficult to find. In which case I would make Freds Café a Via Point rather than a shaping point.

In all of my experiments, any recalculations that the Zumo made were made only up to the next via point or shaping point.

But - selecting the 'Where To' destination is asking the satnav to navigate you to that point and it ignores any shaping points in between where you are now and where you select. (If you had the old 660, this is like the satnav navigating you to the start of the route - except the 660 would stop navigating when you got there). I haven't tested this, but I am pretty sure that if you chose the top entry in the list - ie the start of the route - (you need to scroll up), and then pressed Skip, the satnav would then navigate you to the next shaping point.

The only other time the route gets calculated is when you load it into the Zumo. Those options in Basecamp can affect this (see my first post). The zumo then only has the via points and the shaping points to work with. After that it uses its own preferences.

You need plenty of points on your route in order to force the satnav, should it ever recalculate. The routing preferences don't have to be the same as they are in Basecamp, (The Zumo doesn't know what they are set to anyway) but if the satnav does recalculate the route, then it helps if it is at least using similar rules. My preference is for setting faster times and avoid motorways and unpaved roads. With something similar set on Basecamp, I can then see where I need to put the points in order to force it along the back roads.

Shorter Distance can often result in riding narrow country lanes with grass growing down the middle and not enough traffic to clear away the nails.
Curvy roads are an unknown quantity to me. I tried it when I first got the 590, it plotted routes around housing estates !
Faster times seems to plot routes which are more predictable.

Thanks for taking the time to post the videos. One thing is clear, and that is that there are a multitude of different ways to plot routes. My preference is to use a minimum of waypoints - start and end and perhaps one for a lunch stop in between. I let the software calculate the fastest route between these two points and then use drag n drop to shape it to my liking.

A couple of points about drag and drop (or inserting a shaping point):
1. if you have the 'hand' tool active, then if you place the hand over the active route, and hold down 'Alt' then the left mouse acts like the insert tool and you can drag the route to a different road, creating a new shaping point. Release the Alt key and the hand is active again so you can drag the map around. It allows you to quickly change a route using only the mouse, scroll wheel and keyboard.
2. if your shaping point ends up being near a named feature - could be a town, or a school or a business - then the shaping point is 'announced', and is in effect a way/via point. This is most likely to happen if you use drag n drop with the map zoomed out so there is little precision in where the shaping point is dropped.
3. to quickly turn all points to 'not announced' open the finished route, use Shift, L click to highlight a series of entries (in my case usually everything between start and end), then R-click to set these entries as 'not announced'.
4. if you stop en route for a coffee at somewhere not marked and turn off the 590, it will resume the route when switched back on. If you've gone off route, and recalc is off, then riding back to the purple line will get the route going again.

Not sure if you've mentioned this, but you can get the 'Skip' icon onto the main map navigation screen (on the Nav V it is buried beneath 2 or 3 layers of menu). This makes it far more convenient to use.

Hi jfheath

My Route was quite long and because of this i used minimal via points from Barcelona to La Rochelle, one was Puigcerdà and probably one more as I was planning to motorway it after the Pyrenees.

It could be deemed as user error but only if your fully aware of the consequence of which option you take.

The offered option was Puigcerdà, the second via point and the destination La Rochelle on the route for the "Where to" question I think by default the set will offer you to the first one. Which will take you along the desired route.

I cant remember exactly but i must have taken the last point the destination La Rochelle (i have no idea why) at this point the set ignored the planned trip and took me the fastest route (Peage) around the Pyrenees to La Rochelle.

You could also state I should have realised what was happening but like a lemming i was in the follow the Magenta route mode and admiring the scenery, I have never ridden this route before so it was unfamiliar.

I have like you tested some local routes and layering a track to see the way the set recalculates and i have seen how it will recalculate to the next via point.
The problem is I chose the last point so it ignored all the points before it, which as I write this now seems glaringly obvious.
I wrongly assumed it would still follow the route. If i had picked the second via point it would have ignored Puigcerdà and probably taken me around the Pyrenees on the Peage anyway.

Tomcat said:

Not sure if you've mentioned this, but you can get the 'Skip' icon onto the main map navigation screen (on the Nav V it is buried beneath 2 or 3 layers of menu). This makes it far more convenient to use.

Click to expand...

Oh - I think there shoud be, but I haven't found out how to do that yet. Do tell, Tomcat !

Update:

As I thought, if you select a via point as your next destination, then the satnav ignores all of the shaping points AND the via points in order to take you to your selected destination, as I had first thought.

The only reason that a test tonight didn't do this is because I was sitting inside the car, outside my house at the start point. In other words, I had already started navigating the route, and in those circumstances, the satnav has already decided to use the via points and shaping points. (But I had to press 'Skip' to stop it from taking me back a few yards to where it thought my home was).

I was right in the first place. ie If you select a via point as your next destination, then the satnav ignores all of the shaping points AND the via points up to that selected Via Point, in order to take you 'direct' to your selected destination. ('direct' in this case meaning using the satnavs routing preferences)

I took some screen shots to demonstrate this:

Full route (composite of 3 Zumo 590 screens) showing all 4 via points and all 6 shaping points - I placed two shaping points in between each pair of via points:



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The 'Select Next Destination' screen shows only the 4 Via Points: Keighley, Chester, Shrewsbury, Tenby.



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In the following maps, the end point is shown as the chequered flags. The Via points are shown as orange flags. The green flag is the start.

The full route showing Keighley (near top), Chester (Under M in Manchester), Shrewsbury (Near B in Birmingham) and Tenby (Chequered Flag).
Note the light blue dots showing the shaping points. There are 2 between each via point flag on the route. (The two to the right of the Green Manchester dot are harder to spot)

This route was shown on the Zumo if Keighley was chosen as the next destination - about 10 miles from the actual start.
ALL of the shaping points and via points are shown on the map.



---------------

The next screen shows the route if Chester is selected as the next destination.
Note that the two shaping points near Manchester have gone, and the route goes to the left of Manchester. The route after Chester remains intact with its 2 remaining Via point flags and 4 shaping points.



-----------------------------------

The next screen shows the route if Shrewsbury is selected as the next destination. Note the Chester Via point has gone and all 4 shaping points (blue dots). The route now takes a more direct line to Shrewsbury and misses out the shaping points at Glossop, Macclesfield, and those in Wales at Machynlleth and Bala. Beyond Shrewsbury the route continues as planned.



------------------------

Finally, if Tenby is chosen as the next destination, then all via points and all shaping points are lost. The satnav calculates the entire route, so your nice motorbike run over Holme Moss, Snake Pass, The Cat and Fiddle, The A494, and the ride over Black Mountain Pass are gone and you get to take a much more direct route on main roads and motorways.

jfheath's post #45 sums it up nicely and correctly.

The important thing is that the way the device operates has nothing to do with the (needlessly) derided BaseCamp but all to do with the devices' much more advanced routing options. Earlier Garmin GPS devices used to carry only a couple of basic prompts, things like: 'Would you like to navigate to the start of the route?' and 'Please drive to highlighted route'. These very basic prompts are gone, replaced by a more advanced options. But learning the advances takes time and can cause some problems. Learning to use BaseCamp can actually help as the software enables you to make all sorts of subtle changes and tweaks to a pre-planned route, which enables much better use of the latest devices' more advanced functions.

Don't be afraid to try things out. As jfheath's and Tomcat's posts show, you really cannot break it and, no matter how hard you try, the device will ALWAYS get you home again. Whether that route home is exactly the way YOU want to go is another matter entirely. By learning and experimenting YOU will be able to better YOUR chances that it is.

Having used GPS devices since the very first and very crude devices first appeared, I think I am pretty good at using Mapsource and now BaseCamp and the latest devices but I still make some schoolboy errors. Knowing how the software works helps me to get myself out of the problems I have created but the learning does require some effort. Make the effort and you'll have a really good traveling companion.

Spot on jfheath! that confirms it for me.

Another vital thing to remember with this as I have experienced is:- If you are half way through your route and lets use your route for example and you were between Machynlleth and Shrewsbury. For what ever reason you have to stop the route and re start it (this has happened to me a few times)

Because you are starting to all intents and purposes a "new" route the Zumo will not automatically restart the route from where you are.

It will ask you to select a via point from the list you then have decide which one.
At this point it is very easy here to select the first via point Keighley rather than Shrewsbury the Zumo will then re route you back to Keighley which would be devastating!
With this example it is obvious to us that Shrewsbury should be selected, but if you don't know exactly how far along the route you are its important you consider the correct point.

My advice here is to find somewhere safe to stop and figure out by zooming out on the map where you are in relation to the next point and selecting the correct one.
Not something you want to be trying to sort out on the move unless you are certain. If you are unsure of the correct via point you may also have to use the skip function until the directions given are favourable.

For anyone reading these posts who re considering buying a Zumo please don't be put off, once you are aware of how it functions you will get the best out of the set and not ruin your day.

Re Jersey GS's post, maybe the easiest way is to display the route you have deviated from but not run it. Then simply do what we used to do: 'Navigate to highlighted route'.

OK, it does require a bit of thought - very akin to following a paper map - but it works. For someone who only ever uses shaping points, it's what I do.

jfheath said:

Oh - I think there shoud be, but I haven't found out how to do that yet. Do tell, Tomcat !

Click to expand...

OK, but I have a Nav V, not the 590. Try this: Settings/Map and Vehicle/(scroll down list)Map Buttons. You can then add two buttons to the map - the standard one is stop navigating to route. I can't remember how you select which 2 buttons you want to display, but it should become obvious when you play around in this part of the menu.

Tomcat said:

OK, but I have a Nav V, not the 590. Try this: Settings/Map and Vehicle/(scroll down list)Map Buttons. You can then add two buttons to the map - the standard one is stop navigating to route. I can't remember how you select which 2 buttons you want to display, but it should become obvious when you play around in this part of the menu.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. It is clearly slightly different on the 590 - The Skip button was added later to the 590 software - it appears as an early fix in Garmin's list. The option to make it visible is there, and I had already turned that on, but it doesn't appear on the main screen. Instead I have to tap the 3 line menu button, and then select Skip. I'd like it to be on the main navigation screen somewhere down the side.

Tapping one button when driving when I know where exactly the button is - no problem - it can be done without taking my eyes off the road, but pressing a button and then having to choose from 9+ icons - that's getting into the realms of driving without due care.

I'm sure Garmin will fix this at some time, but how you send a message to them, I don't know. I have a list of bugs. The support desk don't seem to want to know, they just seem to pull out stock answers from a database that match one of the words in your question and send that back as an answer. That's my experience anyway.

Thanks for relocating this Richard.


It's been a while since I came back on here - Can I confess to not owning a GS ? But I do ride with people who do - does that count ? When I was tearing my hair out about the changes with the newer Garmin Zumo, I landed on this site and people were commenting on and asking about the same sort of things that I was struggling with. Reading helped me to focus my attention onto certain topics. When I found out, it made sense to put the information back onto this site. I'm glad it has been useful !

Jersey_GS said:

One thing to be aware of i learned to my annoyance when starting a route if you choose
the destination as the point when asked "where to" in the route list of points instead of the first via point it will
take you to the destination and completely ignore the route planned the fastest way.

Click to expand...

This is one of those things that in my opinion shows how Garmin have take their eye off the ball. The old system of 'Do you want to navigate to the start point' is gone, and this feature is in its place, but essentially it is the same thing - except that once you reach your chose start point, the satnav will continue navigation. With the old system it used to stop navigation and you then had to re-select the route.

Now, any Via Points (but not shaping points) will appear in the list from which you can select you next destination. The satnav will then calculate its own route to the point that you choose, and after that it will continue on the route that you plotted in BaseCamp / MapSource.

It is for this reason that correct use of Via Points is essential in navigating unknown areas - simply so that you have a few points that appear in the list of 'next destinations'. With the Zumo 660, I always used to put my start point somewhere up the road.
I still do the same. My start point is always set to be (say) half a mile up the road from where I think I will be setting off from. Usually at the start of a road that I know I will be taking.

So when it asks for my next destination, I can select the first point on the route, half a mile or so away. It will make its own mind up about how it gets me there, after which it will follow the Basecamp / Mapsource route.

But you are dead right JerseyGS - if you have only the start and end point appearing in the list of next destinations, (ie there are not any other Via Points on the route) and you choose the end point as your next destination, the satnav will ignore your Basecamp route and the shaping points and navigate its own way to the point you have selected.

----------------------------

Since producing the videos and writing all of that stuff in the first post, I have discovered something that contradicts a statement I made about the Zumo 590 not wanting to talk to MapSource. It will. But the Zumo needs to be reset from mass storage mode to show instead a couple of drive letters - one for the internal memory, one for the memory card.

So if you prefer to see drive letters (sorry, I don't know how this relates to an Apple), then:

...on the Zumo 590 navigate to the volume screen, gently press the top right hand corner of the screen for about 10 seconds, and you should get into a Diagnostic Page. Select MTP Settings (Media Transfer Protocol) and you can choose between MTP Auto Detect (default), Mass Storage, and Mass Storage Single Session. Mass Storage will give you your drive letters on your PC. Mass Storage Single Session will do the same, but only temporarily for this one session.

There are all sorts of other goodies in there too. I haven't dared fiddle with any of them !

jfheath said:

It is for this reason that correct use of Via Points is essential in navigating unknown areas - simply so that you have a few points that appear in the list of 'next destinations'. With the Zumo 660, I always used to put my start point somewhere up the road.
I still do the same. My start point is always set to be (say) half a mile up the road from where I think I will be setting off from. Usually at the start of a road that I know I will be taking.

So when it asks for my next destination, I can select the first point on the route, half a mile or so away. It will make its own mind up about how it gets me there, after which it will follow the Basecamp / Mapsource route.

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There is an alternative solution - I typically use the location of a hotel for the end of one day's route and the start of the next. On day two, 9 /10 times when I select 'Go' to the first waypoint (ie the hotel where I am) I can just ride off along the magenta line with route directions. If the waypoint is behind me (eg car park location is slightly different to the hotel location) when I start the route I use the 'skip waypoint' to stop it taking me back. It saves a bit of hassle when planning routes, particularly if you have a series of routes for different days all starting from one hotel or overnight stop.

Tomcat said:

There is an alternative solution - I typically use the location of a hotel for the end of one day's route and the start of the next. On day two, 9 /10 times when I select 'Go' to the first waypoint (ie the hotel where I am) I can just ride off along the magenta line with route directions. If the waypoint is behind me (eg car park location is slightly different to the hotel location) when I start the route I use the 'skip waypoint' to stop it taking me back. It saves a bit of hassle when planning routes, particularly if you have a series of routes for different days all starting from one hotel or overnight stop.

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Cheers Tomcat - yes - that is an alternative solution. I played around with that as an idea and it works - sort of - but there were a few things that bothered me about it. It would be interesting to hear your views.

1 The Skip button isn't available on the main screen and requires taking eyes off the road to locate. Small point, but irritating nonetheless.

2 How do you know if the magenta line is taking you in the wrong direction to the start point ? Perhaps easy to establish wen you are in your locality, but I drove up the road and deliberately missed out a few Via points, and then tried to recover the route by pressing 'Skip'. I didn't know how many times to press it, and I couldn't tell if the magenta line was taking me to the next point on the route from where I had pulled over, or if it was taking me back to one that I had missed and needed to skip. In a foreign country with no knowledge of towns and names, I would have been lost.

3 perhaps the most important point. Pressing the skip button causes the satnav to calculate its own route up to the next route point (ie a Via Point or a Shaping point). So if your next route point is 20 miles away and you had plotted a ride along interesting roads, the satnav may by-pass those roads completely.

4 To counteract that last point, the answer would be to put a via point just a little way up the road. (It has to be a via point, because you cannot select a shaping point as the next destination). Obvious. But you still have to skip the start point, and the satnav will calculate a new route to the next (close by) via point.

In which case, why have the start point there in the first place. The satnav knows where I am, and I'm quite happy for it to do its own thing up to the nearby Via point, and it will take me there and continue navigation from that point without the need for any input from me.

Final point - if route recalculation is turned on, as soon as you ride off the magenta line, the route is recalculated up to the next Via or Shaping point. I find it better to have this turned off so that I can ignore the detours down a slip road and up the slip road on the other side, or the detour caused by a new road which has straightened out a corner.

jfheath said:

1 The Skip button isn't available on the main screen and requires taking eyes off the road to locate. Small point, but irritating nonetheless.
Yes, we've covered this once before. On a Nav V I can have the skip icon on screen but it doesn't seem possible on the 590.

2 How do you know if the magenta line is taking you in the wrong direction to the start point ? Perhaps easy to establish wen you are in your locality, but I drove up the road and deliberately missed out a few Via points, and then tried to recover the route by pressing 'Skip'. I didn't know how many times to press it, and I couldn't tell if the magenta line was taking me to the next point on the route from where I had pulled over, or if it was taking me back to one that I had missed and needed to skip. In a foreign country with no knowledge of towns and names, I would have been lost.
This is rarely a problem, but if I'm unsure I'll ride or walk a few yards with the satnav to get it oriented, and then just follow the magenta line

3 perhaps the most important point. Pressing the skip button causes the satnav to calculate its own route up to the next route point (ie a Via Point or a Shaping point). So if your next route point is 20 miles away and you had plotted a ride along interesting roads, the satnav may by-pass those roads completely.
I don't think this happens if you are on route (ie following the magenta line) but I'm not certain because I sometimes have 'recalculate' turned off. Something to check at some point.

4 To counteract that last point, the answer would be to put a via point just a little way up the road. (It has to be a via point, because you cannot select a shaping point as the next destination). Obvious. But you still have to skip the start point, and the satnav will calculate a new route to the next (close by) via point.

In which case, why have the start point there in the first place. The satnav knows where I am, and I'm quite happy for it to do its own thing up to the nearby Via point, and it will take me there and continue navigation from that point without the need for any input from me.

Final point - if route recalculation is turned on, as soon as you ride off the magenta line, the route is recalculated up to the next Via or Shaping point. I find it better to have this turned off so that I can ignore the detours down a slip road and up the slip road on the other side, or the detour caused by a new road which has straightened out a corner.
If I have to go off route (eg diversion in force which really can't be ridden through) I usually navigate using the map on screen (I use 2D track up). The scroll wheel on the GS is very useful at this point. If I've got recalc on I'm not too bothered about the device calculating a new route to the next shaping point as there are often very few alternative roads available. You're right in saying that the Garmin devices will sometimes divert off a motorway, down a slip road and back on for no apparent reason so here again the scroll wheel zoom function is useful to check that the route really does use the slip road as an exit.

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I think you and I have slightly different approaches - I always want to be guided to my hotel or whatever at the end of a ride, and will normally start a new route from that point. I use the map display a lot and will ignore odd bits of route that don't make sense (the slip road issue, or being told to turn onto a fire track because the device thinks it might be quicker than the road)

Tomcat said:

I think you and I have slightly different approaches - I always want to be guided to my hotel or whatever at the end of a ride, and will normally start a new route from that point. I use the map display a lot and will ignore odd bits of route that don't make sense (the slip road issue, or being told to turn onto a fire track because the device thinks it might be quicker than the road)

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Thanks for that input. I don't think we are that different - I ignore my satnav quite a lot when riding, but that is because with my 660 I knew what it would do. Then I got the 590 and I was ignorant again - and have a long European tour looming. I had to find out how it behaved. I have got used to it and it isn't a problem now, but really I think Garmin made some negative progress with this. I mean - reintroducing the must visit points and then missing out the skip button on first release ( patching it in later ).... suggests to me that the logic came from the programmers rather than from a user. But that's only my opinion.

Generally I put in just a few points as a guide - but on long routes I have one route per day and I generally want to be sure that I go along (say) certain mountain passes.

At its simplest level, I just put in the destination and when I want to go a different way, I take it and let it recalculate.

Bit late with this but thanks for taking the time to write this up, a very useful insight into the workings of the modern Zumos / Nuvis