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Thread: IAM Masters

  1. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by richardbd View Post
    A Masters with Distinction takes some getting by even the best and most experienced riders...
    Do you have a Master's with distinction by any chance?

    I do agree, it does take some doing, but I think the 80% for a distinction is too low, it should be 90% IMHO. I have a Masters, but not a distinction . To take the Masters test I had to ride well over 70 miles away, well away from any familiar roads.

    To the OP, please note that not all Masters Mentors are Police Class 1 (or whatever replaced it), some are just every day riders like myself who have taken the Masters test and are probably IAM National Observers.

    Regarding IAM F1RSTs, your group isn't in the West country by any chance is it?
    At the moment success rates in achieving this level of pass appear to vary around the country. Hopefully the IAM will be addressing the issue of achieving test standardisation in the New Year.

  2. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatScot View Post
    I read the IAM info at the link. The accolade about the "highest level of civilian driving standard in the country" is self assigned by the IAM. So I guess it has no more or less validity than the claim by RoSPA re their Gold award. I've been an IAM member for some time (and RoSPA Gold) and I'm aware of the background and the differences of opinion surrounding the introduction of the Masters programme. As an approach to re-invigorate and renew their Advanced rider programme it has merit. Alternatively, it is little more than a marketing ploy with a clever title and an unauthenticated claim of ultimate standards.

    I'm a supporter of continuous personal/professional development and would recommend Advanced rider training to anyone, either RoSPA or IAM. For me the RoSPA award has the additional merit of its requirement to refresh every 3 years to retain the qualification. But each to his own.
    You do realise that a Masters pass is only valid for five years.

    A mentors Masters Distnction pass is only valid for three years if they are to remain a mentor.

    A retest is £129 whereas a RoSPA retest is included in the annual membership fee. Observers and mentors have to pay full price for the privilege of being retested every three or five years as well as the £35 annual IAM membership fee.

    Could this be a marketing ploy? How else will IAM pay for its new headquarters in Welwyn Garden City. How else will the wages of the high ups at headquarters be paid? Of course the voluntary work of the observers and mentors must help to keep the running costs down!
    Anyone riding slower than you is an idiot, and anyone riding faster than you is a maniac

  3. #19
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    Smug
    In one of your 1st post you state that "our" examiner is off the opinion that the F1rst is higher than the Masters how would he know he doesn't "do" the tests for the Masters!
    You also state that everyone in the group who have done there Masters done it on familiar roads if your referring to HBAM group your wrong the area / roads used have been chosen to challenge even the best
    I did mine in Sussex / Kent


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  4. #20
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    The problem I have found with the IAM observer system is they expect me to ride much faster than I want to - I have been told I MUST overtake if I can, but what if I am happy toddling along behind someone breaking trail for me on an unfamiliar road - apparently that means I am not the calibre required. CRAP - I COULD overtake if I wanted to - but I don't. It makes my fuel go further, my tyres and brakes last longer and I don't have ot lean the bike over so far. Provided I leave a healthy, safe breaking distance between me and vehicle in front, why the insistence on overtaking? The world goes fast enough as it is, why the compulsory rush?

    Someone please explain the logic for me.

  5. #21
    i have a First pass ,so if in the opinion the Masters is easier ....theres no point ?

    I really can't see the Masters being below the F1rst award, its a longer more enduring test, and I'm told taken in a different area from where you live...This is why Im swaying towards the Mentor package,to se what the required std is and I'm hope of learning a few tips form the mentor towards passing ...ive heard right foot down instead of left will see me getting points docked !! jeez !

  6. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by trebor View Post
    Do you have a Master's with distinction by any chance?
    Fat chance!

  7. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Rat View Post
    The problem I have found with the IAM observer system is they expect me to ride much faster than I want to - I have been told I MUST overtake if I can, but what if I am happy toddling along behind someone breaking trail for me on an unfamiliar road - apparently that means I am not the calibre required. CRAP - I COULD overtake if I wanted to - but I don't. It makes my fuel go further, my tyres and brakes last longer and I don't have ot lean the bike over so far. Provided I leave a healthy, safe breaking distance between me and vehicle in front, why the insistence on overtaking? The world goes fast enough as it is, why the compulsory rush?

    Someone please explain the logic for me.
    Sounds like you'd be better off in a car. You'd be warm and dry then too...


  8. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smug View Post


    Could this be a marketing ploy? How else will IAM pay for its new headquarters in Welwyn Garden City. How else will the wages of the high ups at headquarters be paid? Of course the voluntary work of the observers and mentors must help to keep the running costs down!
    Quote Originally Posted by DC View Post
    ...ive heard right foot down instead of left will see me getting points docked !! jeez !
    All part of the reasons I retired as an IAM Examiner after 24 years ... I quite simply didn't like the way it was heading

    They're building an empire, a business, on the backs of volunteers doing a bloody good job, in their own time, and for nothing, and along the way they're kicking the fun out of motorcycling ... but then I am a cantankerous old git



    PS ... Any foot down first is OK DC provided it was for a reason, part of the planning, and we're not doing a Michael Flatley wannabe

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  9. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Rat View Post
    The problem I have found with the IAM observer system is they expect me to ride much faster than I want to - I have been told I MUST overtake if I can, but what if I am happy toddling along behind someone breaking trail for me on an unfamiliar road - apparently that means I am not the calibre required. CRAP - I COULD overtake if I wanted to - but I don't. It makes my fuel go further, my tyres and brakes last longer and I don't have ot lean the bike over so far. Provided I leave a healthy, safe breaking distance between me and vehicle in front, why the insistence on overtaking? The world goes fast enough as it is, why the compulsory rush?

    Someone please explain the logic for me.
    The requirement is for the rider (or driver) to make safe progress within the posted speed limits and where safe to do so travel at that limit. If there are slower moving vehicles preventing you from doing this you are required where it is safe to do so to overtake them, but again within the posted limit. This in itself is a skill and is probably one of the most difficult things to master which I'm finding out. The IAM and indeed ROSPA set the criteria for what they deem to be the standard expected to pass their test. If you don't want to ride at that pace that's up to you, but it's their standard, not yours. That said IMO any extra training bikers take which make them safer can only be a good thing and there are plenty of private accredited advanced riders that will provide bespoke training to improve your riding without the advanced test being the end goal.

  10. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micky View Post
    All part of the reasons I retired as an IAM Examiner after 24 years ... I quite simply didn't like the way it was heading

    They're building an empire, a business, on the backs of volunteers doing a bloody good job, in their own time, and for nothing, and along the way they're kicking the fun out of motorcycling ... but then I am a cantankerous old git



    PS ... Any foot down first is OK DC provided it was for a reason, part of the planning, and we're not doing a Michael Flatley wannabe

    'It's Not Rocket Science'
    Micky, I have long thought that the annual membership fee should be waived for the bike observers.

  11. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by littleade View Post
    The requirement is for the rider (or driver) to make safe progress within the posted speed limits and where safe to do so travel at that limit. If there are slower moving vehicles preventing you from doing this you are required where it is safe to do so to overtake them, but again within the posted limit. This in itself is a skill and is probably one of the most difficult things to master which I'm finding out. The IAM and indeed ROSPA set the criteria for what they deem to be the standard expected to pass their test. If you don't want to ride at that pace that's up to you, but it's their standard, not yours. That said IMO any extra training bikers take which make them safer can only be a good thing and there are plenty of private accredited advanced riders that will provide bespoke training to improve your riding without the advanced test being the end goal.

    I am not having any fluoro jacketed wanker telling when and who I will overtake - they can fuck right off! I will ride how I WANT TO RIDE and no trumped up, self appointed organisation is going to dictate to me. I use Roadcraft techniques - AT MY PACE. If I want to get an extra 2000 miles out of my tyres and an extra 50 miles out of the tank who the hell are they to tell me I shouldn't? What a load of garbage.

  12. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisMc View Post
    Smug
    In one of your 1st post you state that "our" examiner is off the opinion that the F1rst is higher than the Masters how would he know he doesn't "do" the tests for the Masters!
    You also state that everyone in the group who have done there Masters done it on familiar roads if your referring to HBAM group your wrong the area / roads used have been chosen to challenge even the best
    I did mine in Sussex / Kent


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    If you had come to the club night on the Masters you would have heard him say it as well. In his mind criterior which he would award a one against would have to be ridden in the best way possible or it would be marked as a second. He attends IAM examiner meetings where these points are discussed in great detail and many of the examiners are of the same opinion that a F1RST rates higher than a Masters or a Masters with distinction simply based on their own requirements of 70%+ for a pass and 80%+ for a distinction.

    Chris I forgot that you took your Masters test out of our area. I apologise.

    I know that recent riders from HBAM started their Masters test ride at Baldock which is in our area.
    Anyone riding slower than you is an idiot, and anyone riding faster than you is a maniac

  13. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Rat View Post
    I am not having any fluoro jacketed wanker telling when and who I will overtake - they can fuck right off! I will ride how I WANT TO RIDE and no trumped up, self appointed organisation is going to dictate to me. I use Roadcraft techniques - AT MY PACE. If I want to get an extra 2000 miles out of my tyres and an extra 50 miles out of the tank who the hell are they to tell me I shouldn't? What a load of garbage.
    Why ever did you bother to contact any training organisation?

  14. #30
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    But it's probably better to look at it this way
    When going for your Green badge you are trying to obtain a pass! And providing your ride is of a high standard your awarded and quite rightly so a F1rst
    However with the Masters it's yours to loose! By which I mean you take the test having "already" passed but marks are taken away for various reason
    And we shouldn't forget the marking is very different between the two
    I do agree though there does seam to be a watering down of the test standard


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  15. #31
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  16. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Rat View Post
    I am not having any fluoro jacketed wanker telling when and who I will overtake - they can fuck right off! I will ride how I WANT TO RIDE and no trumped up, self appointed organisation is going to dictate to me. I use Roadcraft techniques - AT MY PACE. If I want to get an extra 2000 miles out of my tyres and an extra 50 miles out of the tank who the hell are they to tell me I shouldn't? What a load of garbage.
    They're not dictating anything to you, but if you want to pass THEIR test then you have to comply with the speed limits. No major organisation can condone breaking the law.

    I seem to remember there's a section in Roadcraft on red mist and rider's attitude which can affect the rider's .... safety.....

    As I understand it, the Masters is a test to a very high standard of very precise driving. I'd take it as a challenge, but I'm not sure I want to put that much time and effort into something which is not that relevant in the real world.

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