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Thread: IAM Masters

  1. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Rat View Post
    I am not having any fluoro jacketed wanker telling when and who I will overtake - they can fuck right off! I will ride how I WANT TO RIDE and no trumped up, self appointed organisation is going to dictate to me. I use Roadcraft techniques - AT MY PACE. If I want to get an extra 2000 miles out of my tyres and an extra 50 miles out of the tank who the hell are they to tell me I shouldn't? What a load of garbage.
    Well the answer to that is simple, don't take an advanced riding or driving course, it obviously isn't for you. No one is insisting that you take this type of course.

  2. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmilne View Post
    They're not dictating anything to you, but if you want to pass THEIR test then you have to comply with the speed limits. No major organisation can condone breaking the law.

    I seem to remember there's a section in Roadcraft on red mist and rider's attitude which can affect the rider's .... safety.....

    As I understand it, the Masters is a test to a very high standard of very precise driving. I'd take it as a challenge, but I'm not sure I want to put that much time and effort into something which is not that relevant in the real world.
    Not picking on this one response alone, I just don't know how to do that yellow box thing where you can quoute several replies...

    I did go to the IAM test - and that was the result. they WERE TELLING ME I HAD TO OVERTAKE WHEN I DIDN'T WANT TO. The van in front was making decent progress for the road. I was quite happy at that speed and dropped back so I had better vision due to the no windows in the back - I could see inside and outside according to road position and bends. The I AM chappie told me I should have made more effort to overtake - and burn fuel in hard acceleration, ripping my tyres to shreds (hard acceleration is where your tyres get worn the most).

    I agree with the observation apsects, the positioning aspects, the recognising dangers aspects. I DO NOT agree with the make as much progress as possible aspect - what is wrong with a steady, good average pace, over a long journey it makes very little difference. the economy of riding difference is vast though - witness the fact I have never got less than 13,000 miles out of a set of Tourances on my 1150Adv - people on here have questioned the validity of that mileage, because they burn them out in 7000 or 8000 miles. So my riding is at least 40% more economical and just as safe.

    Now argue with that logic - i reckon I am safer as a result, which is the overall objective, no?

  3. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Rat View Post
    Not picking on this one response alone, I just don't know how to do that yellow box thing where you can quoute several replies...

    I did go to the IAM test - and that was the result. they WERE TELLING ME I HAD TO OVERTAKE WHEN I DIDN'T WANT TO. The van in front was making decent progress for the road. I was quite happy at that speed and dropped back so I had better vision due to the no windows in the back - I could see inside and outside according to road position and bends. The I AM chappie told me I should have made more effort to overtake - and burn fuel in hard acceleration, ripping my tyres to shreds (hard acceleration is where your tyres get worn the most).

    I agree with the observation apsects, the positioning aspects, the recognising dangers aspects. I DO NOT agree with the make as much progress as possible aspect - what is wrong with a steady, good average pace, over a long journey it makes very little difference. the economy of riding difference is vast though - witness the fact I have never got less than 13,000 miles out of a set of Tourances on my 1150Adv - people on here have questioned the validity of that mileage, because they burn them out in 7000 or 8000 miles. So my riding is at least 40% more economical and just as safe.

    Now argue with that logic - i reckon I am safer as a result, which is the overall objective, no?
    another [Quote Originally Posted by King Rat] I am not having any fluoro jacketed wanker telling when and who I will overtake - they can fuck right off! I will ride how I WANT TO RIDE and no trumped up, self appointed organisation is going to dictate to me. I use Roadcraft techniques - AT MY PACE. If I want to get an extra 2000 miles out of my tyres and an extra 50 miles out of the tank who the hell are they to tell me I shouldn't? What a load of garbage.[Unquote]

    Well there you go!
    You both want to drive at your own pace.
    You can.
    But neither of you will pass the IAM (or Rospa) test if you drive like that - on the test day....

    If you want to be safe and enjoy your riding - that's why I have a bike - then some training is a must.
    Experience is useful but the training will save you from having lots of experiences that you don't want.

    ..... and if you want to complete a long journey at a steady pace, then the motorways are the way to go, statistically the safest roads as well!

  4. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Rat View Post
    Not picking on this one response alone, I just don't know how to do that yellow box thing where you can quoute several replies...

    I did go to the IAM test - and that was the result. they WERE TELLING ME I HAD TO OVERTAKE WHEN I DIDN'T WANT TO. The van in front was making decent progress for the road. I was quite happy at that speed and dropped back so I had better vision due to the no windows in the back - I could see inside and outside according to road position and bends. The I AM chappie told me I should have made more effort to overtake - and burn fuel in hard acceleration, ripping my tyres to shreds (hard acceleration is where your tyres get worn the most).

    I agree with the observation apsects, the positioning aspects, the recognising dangers aspects. I DO NOT agree with the make as much progress as possible aspect - what is wrong with a steady, good average pace, over a long journey it makes very little difference. the economy of riding difference is vast though - witness the fact I have never got less than 13,000 miles out of a set of Tourances on my 1150Adv - people on here have questioned the validity of that mileage, because they burn them out in 7000 or 8000 miles. So my riding is at least 40% more economical and just as safe.

    Now argue with that logic - i reckon I am safer as a result, which is the overall objective, no?
    I can understand your desire for economic motorcycling. A much smaller and more economical bike than an 1150 would be better suited to those ends.
    Argue with the logic of that.

  5. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Rat View Post
    Not picking on this one response alone, I just don't know how to do that yellow box thing where you can quoute several replies...

    I did go to the IAM test - and that was the result. they WERE TELLING ME I HAD TO OVERTAKE WHEN I DIDN'T WANT TO. The van in front was making decent progress for the road. I was quite happy at that speed and dropped back so I had better vision due to the no windows in the back - I could see inside and outside according to road position and bends. The I AM chappie told me I should have made more effort to overtake - and burn fuel in hard acceleration, ripping my tyres to shreds (hard acceleration is where your tyres get worn the most).

    I agree with the observation apsects, the positioning aspects, the recognising dangers aspects. I DO NOT agree with the make as much progress as possible aspect - what is wrong with a steady, good average pace, over a long journey it makes very little difference. the economy of riding difference is vast though - witness the fact I have never got less than 13,000 miles out of a set of Tourances on my 1150Adv - people on here have questioned the validity of that mileage, because they burn them out in 7000 or 8000 miles. So my riding is at least 40% more economical and just as safe.

    Now argue with that logic - i reckon I am safer as a result, which is the overall objective, no?
    The thing is Ratty, all you need to do is learn the skills, demonstrate them on the test, pass it and then you can ride in any smug, safe, economical, dull and tedious manner that you fancy.

    There are those who like to enjoy a progressive ride and ...... then there is you apparently

  6. #38
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    I'm lucky enough to have a master's with distinction in two groups, and membership of another two also. I did my rospa in middle earth or Nottinghamshire as some call it. Gold for car, silver for bike. Because "quote" no one is perfect enough to get a gold on their first attempt !

    I laughed, a lot.

    Been and done it and proved it to myself. On a good day, I'm an average rider and can live with that. Just be honest about your own skills and abilities, try and learn and improve every time you go out.

    For the record, civilians are individuals who are not members of either the ministry or of the armed forces. The a day a Police Officer can win a VC will be the day they cease to be a civilian.

  7. #39
    I have a Masters distinction, for which I just took the test without any Mentor. I think it is hard to find someone who can teach at that level.

    My thoughts- It is the most difficult test to take between Rospa and the iAM. Very dificult to get a distinction- I would think a First is very similar to Rospa Gold.

    However i really dont see why some of the people on here are Anti- advanced riding ( or is it the institutions involved? ). The road is a very dangerous place and even if someone picks up a tiny piece of advice that they can use, this might be the bit that saves your life, no doubt about it. I would say to anyone- take advanced training- there will be some of it that you can use. This is the imporatnt thing, not any certificate, but the skills you need to survive on the road.

    I think that you can actually take the Masters without any advanced training or qualifications, but really there is no point in this, you wouldnt have a hope in hell. There is a lot to it.

    Example- the Police Examiner will take you on pretty technical roads- I actually got warned what they would be like- as though he expected me to crash! Never quite had a motorbike exam like it- in one section I could hear his pegs going down each left to right- we were hustling along no messing.

  8. #40
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    Well done on getting a distinction thumperbob2002 especially without mentoring.
    Anyone riding slower than you is an idiot, and anyone riding faster than you is a maniac

  9. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Rat View Post
    I am not having any fluoro jacketed wanker telling when and who I will overtake - they can fuck right off! I will ride how I WANT TO RIDE and no trumped up, self appointed organisation is going to dictate to me. I use Roadcraft techniques - AT MY PACE. If I want to get an extra 2000 miles out of my tyres and an extra 50 miles out of the tank who the hell are they to tell me I shouldn't? What a load of garbage.
    Keep calm and carry on. The observers who give their time for free will be more than happy that you won't be wasting their time and can instead spend it on riders who do wish to improve their riding and pass their advanced test.

    Ride safe

  10. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by littleade View Post
    Keep calm and carry on. The observers who give their time for free will be more than happy that you won't be wasting their time and can instead spend it on riders who do wish to improve their riding and pass their advanced test.

    Ride safe
    Well said, sir!

  11. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edward View Post
    I can understand your desire for economic motorcycling. A much smaller and more economical bike than an 1150 would be better suited to those ends.
    Argue with the logic of that.
    Perfectly true - but I have always wanted one from when I first saw that gate fold brochure in 2002. My RS100 was more economic, but the brakes and tyres were from 1980 and not really up to doing 35,000 miles a year in mnodern traffic safely. So the 'same' engine in a modern braked, tyred and softer seated version was stretched for. I think it will be my last bike. It has another 200,000 miles to go to catch the RS up yet, but I am sure it will do it.

  12. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by thumperbob2002 View Post
    I have a Masters distinction, for which I just took the test without any Mentor. I think it is hard to find someone who can teach at that level.

    My thoughts- It is the most difficult test to take between Rospa and the iAM. Very dificult to get a distinction- I would think a First is very similar to Rospa Gold.

    However i really dont see why some of the people on here are Anti- advanced riding ( or is it the institutions involved? ). The road is a very dangerous place and even if someone picks up a tiny piece of advice that they can use, this might be the bit that saves your life, no doubt about it. I would say to anyone- take advanced training- there will be some of it that you can use. This is the imporatnt thing, not any certificate, but the skills you need to survive on the road.

    I think that you can actually take the Masters without any advanced training or qualifications, but really there is no point in this, you wouldnt have a hope in hell. There is a lot to it.

    Example- the Police Examiner will take you on pretty technical roads- I actually got warned what they would be like- as though he expected me to crash! Never quite had a motorbike exam like it- in one section I could hear his pegs going down each left to right- we were hustling along no messing.

    Are you being serious? And this is deemed as being SAFE, and ADVANCED riding - doesn't sound like there was much margin for error left if you ask me. If the pegs were already down, there was no further room for movement, and therefore no margin of safety....I have NEVER been anywhere near grounding ANYTHING, not even my toes. I don't think I want to either. Most of my biking is done with between £12,000 and £20,000 worth of camera gear loaded aboard - and I am NOT risking that.

  13. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edward View Post
    Well said, sir!
    YES!!

  14. #46
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    I totally agree with Micky. Whilst I'm a great advocate of advanced training, and an ex IAM observer, the IAM are on the point of taking the mick with their fees. You can't be a member of your local group without being a member of the national group, and they give absolutely nothing of the test fees to the local group who's volunteers do all the work.

    Log onto the IAM website and have a look at their finances. You will not believe how many of their officers are paid over 100k per year, bearing in mind the IAM is a registered charity.

    As an aside. One of the things that really frustrated me, both locally and nationally during my time with the IAM, was their fixation with braking.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see someone overusing their brakes, but when they need to slow I want to see them on their brakes, not slamming down the gearbox or backing off much earlier than necessary.

    I always felt it was one of the big failings of many observers that they didn't really understand braking and saw breaking as some sort of failing.

    I could ride the majority of many of my journey's without using my brakes, but it wouldn't necessarily make it a good ride.

  15. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Rat View Post
    Are you being serious? And this is deemed as being SAFE, and ADVANCED riding - doesn't sound like there was much margin for error left if you ask me. If the pegs were already down, there was no further room for movement, and therefore no margin of safety....I have NEVER been anywhere near grounding ANYTHING, not even my toes. I don't think I want to either. Most of my biking is done with between £12,000 and £20,000 worth of camera gear loaded aboard - and I am NOT risking that.
    Yeah all good points but you've got to remember that he was in a fully loaded pan European and I was on a gs adventure. He had a lot less ground clearance than me. He had to keep up and to be honest was a very very good rider.

    Advanced training needed for you pal. Just because you get your pegs down it doesn't mean you are going to crash, try riding a Harley!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  16. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrinkleyowlie View Post
    I totally agree with Micky. Whilst I'm a great advocate of advanced training, and an ex IAM observer, the IAM are on the point of taking the mick with their fees. You can't be a member of your local group without being a member of the national group, and they give absolutely nothing of the test fees to the local group who's volunteers do all the work.

    Log onto the IAM website and have a look at their finances. You will not believe how many of their officers are paid over 100k per year, bearing in mind the IAM is a registered charity.

    As an aside. One of the things that really frustrated me, both locally and nationally during my time with the IAM, was their fixation with braking.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see someone overusing their brakes, but when they need to slow I want to see them on their brakes, not slamming down the gearbox or backing off much earlier than necessary.

    I always felt it was one of the big failings of many observers that they didn't really understand braking and saw breaking as some sort of failing.

    I could ride the majority of many of my journey's without using my brakes, but it wouldn't necessarily make it a good ride.
    A couple of corrections needed here -

    1. Apart from anything else what you get from IAM is the infrastructure which supports the Advanced Riding/Driving qualification and the oversight to ensure that training delivered by the various groups across the country is to the same high standard; their insurance cover when taking part in group events and (for many) discounted insurance premiums (not everyone I appreciate)

    2. Sadly, there are few if any 'big charities' which aren't paying their senior staff big salaries - they'll argue it's necessary to attract the best people

    3. I'm sure you'll appreciate that the emphasis is on developing 'thinking riders' who consider and plan their actions. True, older observers did apparently frown on overuse of the brakes but the regime now is that it's sensible to use brakes when warranted but forward planning can allow the rider to adjust his or her speed using acceleration sense. Observers and examiners look for this as evidence of that level of good observation and forward planning.

    4. If a person signs up to buy the Advanced Rider package from the IAM - the only way of commencing training - then the package includes 12 months membership of IAM and the local group. The local group receives £31 from the package fee so it is incorrect to assert that nothing is given to the local group ..... and as you know most local volunteers receive a contribution toward their expenses from the associate. In my group it's £15 per observed ride

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