Keep calm and carry on. The observers who give their time for free will be more than happy that you won't be wasting their time and can instead spend it on riders who do wish to improve their riding and pass their advanced test.
Ride safe
IAM Masters
- Thread starter DC
- Start date
Keep calm and carry on. The observers who give their time for free will be more than happy that you won't be wasting their time and can instead spend it on riders who do wish to improve their riding and pass their advanced test.
Ride safe
Edward
Registered user
Well said, sir!
Perfectly true - but I have always wanted one from when I first saw that gate fold brochure in 2002.
My RS100 was more economic, but the brakes and tyres were from 1980 and not really up to doing 35,000 miles a year in mnodern traffic safely. So the 'same' engine in a modern braked, tyred and softer seated version was stretched for. I think it will be my last bike. It has another 200,000 miles to go to catch the RS up yet, but I am sure it will do it.
Are you being serious? And this is deemed as being SAFE, and ADVANCED riding - doesn't sound like there was much margin for error left if you ask me. If the pegs were already down, there was no further room for movement, and therefore no margin of safety....I have NEVER been anywhere near grounding ANYTHING, not even my toes. I don't think I want to either. Most of my biking is done with between £12,000 and £20,000 worth of camera gear loaded aboard - and I am NOT risking that.
YES!!
I totally agree with Micky. Whilst I'm a great advocate of advanced training, and an ex IAM observer, the IAM are on the point of taking the mick with their fees. You can't be a member of your local group without being a member of the national group, and they give absolutely nothing of the test fees to the local group who's volunteers do all the work.
Log onto the IAM website and have a look at their finances. You will not believe how many of their officers are paid over 100k per year, bearing in mind the IAM is a registered charity.
As an aside. One of the things that really frustrated me, both locally and nationally during my time with the IAM, was their fixation with braking.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see someone overusing their brakes, but when they need to slow I want to see them on their brakes, not slamming down the gearbox or backing off much earlier than necessary.
I always felt it was one of the big failings of many observers that they didn't really understand braking and saw breaking as some sort of failing.
I could ride the majority of many of my journey's without using my brakes, but it wouldn't necessarily make it a good ride.
Log onto the IAM website and have a look at their finances. You will not believe how many of their officers are paid over 100k per year, bearing in mind the IAM is a registered charity.
As an aside. One of the things that really frustrated me, both locally and nationally during my time with the IAM, was their fixation with braking.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see someone overusing their brakes, but when they need to slow I want to see them on their brakes, not slamming down the gearbox or backing off much earlier than necessary.
I always felt it was one of the big failings of many observers that they didn't really understand braking and saw breaking as some sort of failing.
I could ride the majority of many of my journey's without using my brakes, but it wouldn't necessarily make it a good ride.
thumperbob2002
Registered user
Yeah all good points but you've got to remember that he was in a fully loaded pan European and I was on a gs adventure. He had a lot less ground clearance than me. He had to keep up and to be honest was a very very good rider.
Advanced training needed for you pal. Just because you get your pegs down it doesn't mean you are going to crash, try riding a Harley!
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A couple of corrections needed here -
1. Apart from anything else what you get from IAM is the infrastructure which supports the Advanced Riding/Driving qualification and the oversight to ensure that training delivered by the various groups across the country is to the same high standard; their insurance cover when taking part in group events and (for many) discounted insurance premiums (not everyone I appreciate)
2. Sadly, there are few if any 'big charities' which aren't paying their senior staff big salaries - they'll argue it's necessary to attract the best people
3. I'm sure you'll appreciate that the emphasis is on developing 'thinking riders' who consider and plan their actions. True, older observers did apparently frown on overuse of the brakes but the regime now is that it's sensible to use brakes when warranted but forward planning can allow the rider to adjust his or her speed using acceleration sense. Observers and examiners look for this as evidence of that level of good observation and forward planning.
4. If a person signs up to buy the Advanced Rider package from the IAM - the only way of commencing training - then the package includes 12 months membership of IAM and the local group. The local group receives £31 from the package fee so it is incorrect to assert that nothing is given to the local group ..... and as you know most local volunteers receive a contribution toward their expenses from the associate. In my group it's £15 per observed ride
thumperbob2002
Registered user
Yeah All good points. Myself, I dont really want to get into any criticisms of the IAM /Rospa etc as all I want to do is ride my bike, and hopefully help some bikers become safer etc.
It may have been said on here before that there are lots of different abilities in IAM Observers, and from what I have seen this is a problem. Its great that these people give their time without any payment ( I never take monies for petrol myself, though many in my group do ) and they are all "good eggs" that are there to help, in the main.
However there are lots of things they do which are plainly wrong, and when an Observer ( who should know what they are doing ) is effectively training others to ride as they do ( but which is wrong ), this is a real problem.
Take the example above of braking. A lot of the old school basically think that if you show a brake light you have failed! Here`s a good example- a long straight road- 60 mph- in the distance you can see a 30mph sign. How do you slow down?- the old school would say you use "acceleration sense" and you would throttle off quite early to get down to 60 mph without brakes. A Rospa examiner actually told me that this was the correct way.
Its plainly wrong- we are on bikes- they are designed to make progress- if a car was behind at 60 mph they would be quite pissed off that you were impeding their journey in this way. The best way is to keep at 60mph as long as possible and then smoothly use your brakes to slow to 30 mph, this way you leave the hazard ( car ) well behind you and make maximum safe progress. Obviously this situation can be very much different if the car was a fast BMW and was trying to overtake you-or was very close to your back wheel- and for these situations you would do something very different. The masters test is all about this- very fine details and what would you do in certain situations that are constantly changing.
There is a good write up on here somewhere called " Its not Rocket Science". Some advanced guy has written this and I agree very much with what he said- really everyone should read it- especially if someone wants to become an Observer.
' It's not Rocket Science ' has been written by some advanced riding God called........ Micky......of this parish.
Malc
Malc
I wonder how widespread this is as my local group don't ask for anything towards the observers costs. Many associates buy them breakfast, but it's not compulsory.
thumperbob2002
Registered user
I think it's quite normal myself. I personally consider this as doing something good for others so I never ask for contributions.
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Edward
Registered user
We don't ask for any contribution here.
PDiddy
Registered user
My local group group asks for £10 but which I don't have a problem paying.
First off - this post is not aimed at any ONE person / it's just a view from a part time trainer that it's been said is not the most conventional of educators. 
I resist getting into these (repeating
) threads but,
here's one important Observation;
it's a test - regardless of whether IAM or RoSPA.
In any test you do need to be pressured, a little, so you show your true, honest reactions to the Hazards around you.
You may not like or regularly ride with such "Progress" as the Examiner wants / needs to see.
But if they dont see it, they cant Assess you properly.
I have a RoSPA DIP / Gold and have had for some years. If (no; when ) i'm asked "what makes you qualified to comment / train / advise / tell me what to do?!" - there you go - that's what.
However,
i dont ride around all the time with a day glo (hate them. there's a time and place, but that's not all the time) on.
I dont ride at Gold standard all the time either. (ask Micky - he's seen me ride and is a better qualified judge than i'll ever be).
I'd say i ride at Silver... most of the time... unless on a 'private road', track or similar.
Why?
because that's my comfort zone. i.e; better than average / safe enough / relaxed / in full control of my patch of road and well aware of other fuc ... sorry - road users.
But when needed i can switch up a gear and make as much progress as wanted, needed or just simply desired
.
Why bother with all this palaver of tests and rechecks then?
Because it's a yard stick by which i measure my own and other road users behaviour / skill / sharpness.
There are days i know i'm not the sharpest tool in the box - i could be tired, unwell, stressed or distracted - whatEVER!
The point is the Training helps me KNOW this and take it into account with my ride. Thus keeping me safe, upright and able to ride another day.
If you took a Grade 8 piano playing exam - and had to play 'Fur Elise', you wouldn't complain or criticise it because you always play boogie woogie or you're in an Emerson Lake and Palmer tribute band, now would you?
No - you'd see the value of the discipline, practice and habits the exam gave you, to enable you to play 'Hoedown' at 140 beats per minute!
Here - chill out for a few minutes. See you on the road guys
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/iFCniNYZoFg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I resist getting into these (repeating
) threads but,here's one important Observation;
it's a test - regardless of whether IAM or RoSPA.
In any test you do need to be pressured, a little, so you show your true, honest reactions to the Hazards around you.
You may not like or regularly ride with such "Progress"
as the Examiner wants / needs to see.But if they dont see it, they cant Assess you properly.
I have a RoSPA DIP / Gold and have had for some years. If (no; when
) i'm asked "what makes you qualified to comment / train / advise / tell me what to do?!" - there you go - that's what. However,
i dont ride around all the time with a day glo (hate them. there's a time and place, but that's not all the time) on.
I dont ride at Gold standard all the time either
. (ask Micky - he's seen me ride and is a better qualified judge than i'll ever be).I'd say i ride at Silver... most of the time... unless on a 'private road', track or similar
.Why?
because that's my comfort zone. i.e; better than average / safe enough / relaxed / in full control of my patch of road and well aware of other fuc ... sorry - road users.
But when needed i can switch up a gear and make as much progress as wanted, needed or just simply desired
.Why bother with all this palaver of tests and rechecks then?
Because it's a yard stick by which i measure my own and other road users behaviour / skill / sharpness.
There are days i know i'm not the sharpest tool in the box - i could be tired, unwell, stressed or distracted - whatEVER!
The point is the Training helps me KNOW this and take it into account with my ride. Thus keeping me safe, upright and able to ride another day.
If you took a Grade 8 piano playing exam - and had to play 'Fur Elise', you wouldn't complain or criticise it because you always play boogie woogie or you're in an Emerson Lake and Palmer tribute band, now would you?
No - you'd see the value of the discipline, practice and habits the exam gave you, to enable you to play 'Hoedown' at 140 beats per minute!
Here - chill out for a few minutes. See you on the road guys
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/iFCniNYZoFg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
First off - this post is not aimed at any ONE person / it's just a view from a part time trainer that it's been said is not the most conventional of educators.
I resist getting into these (repeating
here's one important Observation;
it's a test - regardless of whether IAM or RoSPA.
In any test you do need to be pressured, a little, so you show your true, honest reactions to the Hazards around you.
You may not like or regularly ride with such "Progress"
But if they dont see it, they cant Assess you properly.
I have a RoSPA DIP / Gold and have had for some years. If (no; when
However,
i dont ride around all the time with a day glo (hate them. there's a time and place, but that's not all the time) on.
I dont ride at Gold standard all the time either
I'd say i ride at Silver... most of the time... unless on a 'private road', track or similar
Why?
because that's my comfort zone. i.e; better than average / safe enough / relaxed / in full control of my patch of road and well aware of other fuc ... sorry - road users.
But when needed i can switch up a gear and make as much progress as wanted, needed or just simply desired
Why bother with all this palaver of tests and rechecks then?
Because it's a yard stick by which i measure my own and other road users behaviour / skill / sharpness.
There are days i know i'm not the sharpest tool in the box - i could be tired, unwell, stressed or distracted - whatEVER!
The point is the Training helps me KNOW this and take it into account with my ride. Thus keeping me safe, upright and able to ride another day.
If you took a Grade 8 piano playing exam - and had to play 'Fur Elise', you wouldn't complain or criticise it because you always play boogie woogie or you're in an Emerson Lake and Palmer tribute band, now would you?
No - you'd see the value of the discipline, practice and habits the exam gave you, to enable you to play 'Hoedown' at 140 beats per minute!
Here - chill out for a few minutes. See you on the road guys
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/iFCniNYZoFg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Can't fault someone who likes ELP.
Interesting response and clarifies a few things - I have always struggled with confidence in tyres and grip. I see people on the road with the very corner of their tyres shredded with balls of rubber on them...I don't even get rid of the porcupine quills on the sides. In the wet, I am even more trepidacious. How does anyone get trained for that? Where do you go? I have seen Paul Cheshire twice a year each year for the last several on Bike Safe courses, but I still have the inante fear of the tyres letting go - of course, I have only been riding regularly for 48 years now. Crappily, I grant you, but I have never got over that lack of confidence in tyre grip...possinbility of diesel, or rain and the tar missing so the road is through to the underneath layer which is like ice. I did contact someone, but they wanted £180 a day....that is more than I earn in a week. So it was simply untenable, even if you professional types think it is reasonable money. I would struggle to find the fuel and then have £10 for the IAM treatment, so I have to rely on the £10 for 2 days Bike Safe offers.
£5 here. I use it to buy coffee for my associate(s).
But then our club refunds us observers our club membership fee. THAT makes me feel good.
Be nice if the IAM did the same for their fee wouldn't it...
King Rat,
shame you're not nearer (139 miles from Holyhead / plus boat / fuel.... 
)
I'd happily help - but neither of us could afford it!
Your reply is honest - which for a start makes you a better rider
.
Your issues with tyres is actually quite easily dealt with - starting in a car park and on from there.
I was the same as you for a long time and it took a good mentor to get me to use the Bikes ability to get the most of my ability.
Oh - and living here gives me lotsa practice with 'adverse surfaces' - a lot of our fun roads have sheite surfacing.
Best of luck to you.
shame you're not nearer
(139 miles from Holyhead / plus boat / fuel.... )I'd happily help - but neither of us could afford it!
Your reply is honest - which for a start makes you a better rider
.Your issues with tyres is actually quite easily dealt with - starting in a car park and on from there.
I was the same as you for a long time and it took a good mentor to get me to use the Bikes ability to get the most of my ability.
Oh - and living here gives me lotsa practice with 'adverse surfaces' - a lot of our fun roads have sheite surfacing.
Best of luck to you.
Edward
Registered user
Don't worry too much about the edges of your tyres, you are still alive.
thumperbob2002
Registered user
Go on a trackday. Lots of novice only days. Will give you loads more confidence and you will get used to the feeling when your on the edge of your tyres. Or go off-road to experience lack of grip.
Unless you are riding on diesel or ice , just because the tyre lets go this doesn't mean you will crash. Modern tyres are so good and they give so much feedback, they just don't let go suddenly-they slip gradually. Basically letting you know how much grip you've got ( or lack of. ).
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Unless you are riding on diesel or ice , just because the tyre lets go this doesn't mean you will crash. Modern tyres are so good and they give so much feedback, they just don't let go suddenly-they slip gradually. Basically letting you know how much grip you've got ( or lack of. ).
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