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Thread: IAM Masters

  1. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by wrinkleyowlie View Post
    I totally agree with Micky. Whilst I'm a great advocate of advanced training, and an ex IAM observer, the IAM are on the point of taking the mick with their fees. You can't be a member of your local group without being a member of the national group, and they give absolutely nothing of the test fees to the local group who's volunteers do all the work.

    Log onto the IAM website and have a look at their finances. You will not believe how many of their officers are paid over 100k per year, bearing in mind the IAM is a registered charity.

    As an aside. One of the things that really frustrated me, both locally and nationally during my time with the IAM, was their fixation with braking.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see someone overusing their brakes, but when they need to slow I want to see them on their brakes, not slamming down the gearbox or backing off much earlier than necessary.

    I always felt it was one of the big failings of many observers that they didn't really understand braking and saw breaking as some sort of failing.

    I could ride the majority of many of my journey's without using my brakes, but it wouldn't necessarily make it a good ride.
    Yeah All good points. Myself, I dont really want to get into any criticisms of the IAM /Rospa etc as all I want to do is ride my bike, and hopefully help some bikers become safer etc.

    It may have been said on here before that there are lots of different abilities in IAM Observers, and from what I have seen this is a problem. Its great that these people give their time without any payment ( I never take monies for petrol myself, though many in my group do ) and they are all "good eggs" that are there to help, in the main.

    However there are lots of things they do which are plainly wrong, and when an Observer ( who should know what they are doing ) is effectively training others to ride as they do ( but which is wrong ), this is a real problem.

    Take the example above of braking. A lot of the old school basically think that if you show a brake light you have failed! Here`s a good example- a long straight road- 60 mph- in the distance you can see a 30mph sign. How do you slow down?- the old school would say you use "acceleration sense" and you would throttle off quite early to get down to 60 mph without brakes. A Rospa examiner actually told me that this was the correct way.

    Its plainly wrong- we are on bikes- they are designed to make progress- if a car was behind at 60 mph they would be quite pissed off that you were impeding their journey in this way. The best way is to keep at 60mph as long as possible and then smoothly use your brakes to slow to 30 mph, this way you leave the hazard ( car ) well behind you and make maximum safe progress. Obviously this situation can be very much different if the car was a fast BMW and was trying to overtake you-or was very close to your back wheel- and for these situations you would do something very different. The masters test is all about this- very fine details and what would you do in certain situations that are constantly changing.

    There is a good write up on here somewhere called " Its not Rocket Science". Some advanced guy has written this and I agree very much with what he said- really everyone should read it- especially if someone wants to become an Observer.

  2. #50
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    ' It's not Rocket Science ' has been written by some advanced riding God called........ Micky......of this parish.
    Malc

  3. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by mw3230 View Post

    4. If a person signs up to buy the Advanced Rider package from the IAM - the only way of commencing training - then the package includes 12 months membership of IAM and the local group. The local group receives £31 from the package fee so it is incorrect to assert that nothing is given to the local group ..... and as you know most local volunteers receive a contribution toward their expenses from the associate. In my group it's £15 per observed ride
    I wonder how widespread this is as my local group don't ask for anything towards the observers costs. Many associates buy them breakfast, but it's not compulsory.

  4. #52
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    I think it's quite normal myself. I personally consider this as doing something good for others so I never ask for contributions.


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  5. #53
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    We don't ask for any contribution here.

  6. #54
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    My local group group asks for £10 but which I don't have a problem paying.

  7. #55
    Shedi Knight Click here to find out how to Subscribe
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    First off - this post is not aimed at any ONE person / it's just a view from a part time trainer that it's been said is not the most conventional of educators.

    I resist getting into these (repeating ) threads but,
    here's one important Observation;
    it's a test - regardless of whether IAM or RoSPA.
    In any test you do need to be pressured, a little, so you show your true, honest reactions to the Hazards around you.
    You may not like or regularly ride with such "Progress" as the Examiner wants / needs to see.
    But if they dont see it, they cant Assess you properly.

    I have a RoSPA DIP / Gold and have had for some years. If (no; when ) i'm asked "what makes you qualified to comment / train / advise / tell me what to do?!" - there you go - that's what.
    However,
    i dont ride around all the time with a day glo (hate them. there's a time and place, but that's not all the time) on.
    I dont ride at Gold standard all the time either . (ask Micky - he's seen me ride and is a better qualified judge than i'll ever be).
    I'd say i ride at Silver... most of the time... unless on a 'private road', track or similar .
    Why?
    because that's my comfort zone. i.e; better than average / safe enough / relaxed / in full control of my patch of road and well aware of other fuc ... sorry - road users.
    But when needed i can switch up a gear and make as much progress as wanted, needed or just simply desired .

    Why bother with all this palaver of tests and rechecks then?
    Because it's a yard stick by which i measure my own and other road users behaviour / skill / sharpness.
    There are days i know i'm not the sharpest tool in the box - i could be tired, unwell, stressed or distracted - whatEVER!
    The point is the Training helps me KNOW this and take it into account with my ride. Thus keeping me safe, upright and able to ride another day.

    If you took a Grade 8 piano playing exam - and had to play 'Fur Elise', you wouldn't complain or criticise it because you always play boogie woogie or you're in an Emerson Lake and Palmer tribute band, now would you?
    No - you'd see the value of the discipline, practice and habits the exam gave you, to enable you to play 'Hoedown' at 140 beats per minute!

    Here - chill out for a few minutes. See you on the road guys

    appears bright from a distance / dim up close

  8. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogmios View Post
    First off - this post is not aimed at any ONE person / it's just a view from a part time trainer that it's been said is not the most conventional of educators.

    I resist getting into these (repeating ) threads but,
    here's one important Observation;
    it's a test - regardless of whether IAM or RoSPA.
    In any test you do need to be pressured, a little, so you show your true, honest reactions to the Hazards around you.
    You may not like or regularly ride with such "Progress" as the Examiner wants / needs to see.
    But if they dont see it, they cant Assess you properly.

    I have a RoSPA DIP / Gold and have had for some years. If (no; when ) i'm asked "what makes you qualified to comment / train / advise / tell me what to do?!" - there you go - that's what.
    However,
    i dont ride around all the time with a day glo (hate them. there's a time and place, but that's not all the time) on.
    I dont ride at Gold standard all the time either . (ask Micky - he's seen me ride and is a better qualified judge than i'll ever be).
    I'd say i ride at Silver... most of the time... unless on a 'private road', track or similar .
    Why?
    because that's my comfort zone. i.e; better than average / safe enough / relaxed / in full control of my patch of road and well aware of other fuc ... sorry - road users.
    But when needed i can switch up a gear and make as much progress as wanted, needed or just simply desired .

    Why bother with all this palaver of tests and rechecks then?
    Because it's a yard stick by which i measure my own and other road users behaviour / skill / sharpness.
    There are days i know i'm not the sharpest tool in the box - i could be tired, unwell, stressed or distracted - whatEVER!
    The point is the Training helps me KNOW this and take it into account with my ride. Thus keeping me safe, upright and able to ride another day.

    If you took a Grade 8 piano playing exam - and had to play 'Fur Elise', you wouldn't complain or criticise it because you always play boogie woogie or you're in an Emerson Lake and Palmer tribute band, now would you?
    No - you'd see the value of the discipline, practice and habits the exam gave you, to enable you to play 'Hoedown' at 140 beats per minute!

    Here - chill out for a few minutes. See you on the road guys


    Can't fault someone who likes ELP.

    Interesting response and clarifies a few things - I have always struggled with confidence in tyres and grip. I see people on the road with the very corner of their tyres shredded with balls of rubber on them...I don't even get rid of the porcupine quills on the sides. In the wet, I am even more trepidacious. How does anyone get trained for that? Where do you go? I have seen Paul Cheshire twice a year each year for the last several on Bike Safe courses, but I still have the inante fear of the tyres letting go - of course, I have only been riding regularly for 48 years now. Crappily, I grant you, but I have never got over that lack of confidence in tyre grip...possinbility of diesel, or rain and the tar missing so the road is through to the underneath layer which is like ice. I did contact someone, but they wanted £180 a day....that is more than I earn in a week. So it was simply untenable, even if you professional types think it is reasonable money. I would struggle to find the fuel and then have £10 for the IAM treatment, so I have to rely on the £10 for 2 days Bike Safe offers.

  9. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDiddy View Post
    My local group group asks for £10 but which I don't have a problem paying.
    £5 here. I use it to buy coffee for my associate(s).
    But then our club refunds us observers our club membership fee. THAT makes me feel good.
    Be nice if the IAM did the same for their fee wouldn't it...

  10. #58
    Shedi Knight Click here to find out how to Subscribe
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    King Rat,

    shame you're not nearer (139 miles from Holyhead / plus boat / fuel.... )
    I'd happily help - but neither of us could afford it!
    Your reply is honest - which for a start makes you a better rider .
    Your issues with tyres is actually quite easily dealt with - starting in a car park and on from there.
    I was the same as you for a long time and it took a good mentor to get me to use the Bikes ability to get the most of my ability.
    Oh - and living here gives me lotsa practice with 'adverse surfaces' - a lot of our fun roads have sheite surfacing.
    Best of luck to you.
    appears bright from a distance / dim up close

  11. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Rat View Post
    Can't fault someone who likes ELP.

    Interesting response and clarifies a few things - I have always struggled with confidence in tyres and grip. I see people on the road with the very corner of their tyres shredded with balls of rubber on them...I don't even get rid of the porcupine quills on the sides. In the wet, I am even more trepidacious. How does anyone get trained for that? Where do you go? I have seen Paul Cheshire twice a year each year for the last several on Bike Safe courses, but I still have the inante fear of the tyres letting go - of course, I have only been riding regularly for 48 years now. Crappily, I grant you, but I have never got over that lack of confidence in tyre grip...possinbility of diesel, or rain and the tar missing so the road is through to the underneath layer which is like ice. I did contact someone, but they wanted £180 a day....that is more than I earn in a week. So it was simply untenable, even if you professional types think it is reasonable money. I would struggle to find the fuel and then have £10 for the IAM treatment, so I have to rely on the £10 for 2 days Bike Safe offers.
    Don't worry too much about the edges of your tyres, you are still alive.

  12. #60
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    IAM Masters

    Go on a trackday. Lots of novice only days. Will give you loads more confidence and you will get used to the feeling when your on the edge of your tyres. Or go off-road to experience lack of grip.

    Unless you are riding on diesel or ice , just because the tyre lets go this doesn't mean you will crash. Modern tyres are so good and they give so much feedback, they just don't let go suddenly-they slip gradually. Basically letting you know how much grip you've got ( or lack of. ).


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  13. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by littleade View Post
    The requirement is for the rider (or driver) to make safe progress within the posted speed limits and where safe to do so travel at that limit. If there are slower moving vehicles preventing you from doing this you are required where it is safe to do so to overtake them, but again within the posted limit. This in itself is a skill and is probably one of the most difficult things to master which I'm finding out. The IAM and indeed ROSPA set the criteria for what they deem to be the standard expected to pass their test. If you don't want to ride at that pace that's up to you, but it's their standard, not yours. That said IMO any extra training bikers take which make them safer can only be a good thing and there are plenty of private accredited advanced riders that will provide bespoke training to improve your riding without the advanced test being the end goal.
    How does all this "making progress at all costs" gel with the dogma that demands that "thou shalt not ever exceed the speed limit"?

    How on earth am I gonna minimise the time spent on the RHS of the road while passing a dawdling Sunday driver doing 53mph without squirting past in the minimum time? There is a very high probability I'll touch 60+ for a moment

    And BTW, a wee squirt now and again is one reason I ride a bike for fun

    As for the Brake Light nonsense . . .

    I don't know where to turn with these Advanced Groups.
    Carpe Diem!

  14. #62
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    IAM Masters

    To be honest pal that is why the masters test is so difficult. You are supposed to make maximum progress but still stay at the speed limit.

    But it's only a test/qualification. For me, after riding round race tracks, doing trials, enduros for the last 40 years I wanted to do some advanced tests to endure I was expert on the roads too. Or as near as I could get.


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  15. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boxerboy55 View Post
    How does all this "making progress at all costs" gel with the dogma that demands that "thou shalt not ever exceed the speed limit"?

    How on earth am I gonna minimise the time spent on the RHS of the road while passing a dawdling Sunday driver doing 53mph without squirting past in the minimum time? There is a very high probability I'll touch 60+ for a moment

    And BTW, a wee squirt now and again is one reason I ride a bike for fun

    As for the Brake Light nonsense . . .

    I don't know where to turn with these Advanced Groups.
    As you've quoted my post ? I've said you are required to make safe progress within the posted limits, not progress at any costs. I'm not saying I totally agree with what they want, just saying what I've been told is expected on their test and what they are looking for. Once you've passed the test what you do then is up to you but as an organisation they can't be seen to be encouraging or condoning breaking the road traffic laws and if you do you risk failure unless you can justify why you did what you did to the examiner.

    Who doesn't like the odd squirt? I certainly do.....

    I know what you mean about the dawdler and outside of the test conditions that's what everyone would do as it makes sense to get past and get back in again. Again what I've been told by my observer is that your overtakes need to be done within the limit-if you have to exceed it to make the overtake to get back in before the next hazard/avoid oncoming traffic then the examiner may consider it poor planning on your part and you shouldn't have attempted it.

    They do like you to use acceleration sense rather than the brakes to moderate your speed (all hail the twin) where you can and with some on here saying they need rear pads changing at the 6000 mile service at trouser down prices perhaps that's not a bad idea!

    They are after a thinking rider and for you to demonstrate this to the examiner but I wonder if I'll strike the right balance when I finally do my test.

  16. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrinkleyowlie View Post
    I totally agree with Micky. Whilst I'm a great advocate of advanced training, and an ex IAM observer, the IAM are on the point of taking the mick with their fees. You can't be a member of your local group without being a member of the national group, and they give absolutely nothing of the test fees to the local group who's volunteers do all the work.

    Log onto the IAM website and have a look at their finances. You will not believe how many of their officers are paid over 100k per year, bearing in mind the IAM is a registered charity.

    As an aside. One of the things that really frustrated me, both locally and nationally during my time with the IAM, was their fixation with braking.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see someone overusing their brakes, but when they need to slow I want to see them on their brakes, not slamming down the gearbox or backing off much earlier than necessary.

    I always felt it was one of the big failings of many observers that they didn't really understand braking and saw breaking as some sort of failing.


    I could ride the majority of many of my journey's without using my brakes, but it wouldn't necessarily make it a good ride.
    This has changed to a much more realistic expectation, whereby whether you brake or not depends upon the conditions and circumstances at the time (and on the bike you are riding), not on a fixed idea about not showing brake lights and always using acceleration sense. This is what examiners are now looking for during test. If there is any question about a situation that arises on test then the examiner will discuss it during the debrief.
    Life is short.
    And random.
    That's all you need to know...

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