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Thread: Numpties

  1. #1
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    Numpties

    Hi,

    This threads been a little quiet for 6 months, I'll see what I can stir with much interest on you opinions.

    I rode from Tarragona to Valencia yesterday on my GS8 and given the 2.5 hours riding time on a pretty empty A7 toll motorway heading home to family after 2 months away gave plenty time to think about my own bike safety and to reflect back on my relative short time riding experience of 6 years.

    Dare I name lanes as slow 1, middle 2 and fast 3? I spend a lot of time in Europe, it will be easier for me than lefts and rights.

    So:
    1. Accelerating away from danger? Do you ever? When? Does it sometime include approaching the legal limit?
    My bikes got a tooth less up front so geared down from most but it happily still sits at the legal 120kph comfortably for hours. I know its good for at least 180kph (only from sums of course). When do I do it?
    Scenario 1: Following proven or doubtful numpty in lane 1 or 2 and I see 2 or more unknown numpties on a slip road just about to enter my current safe zone. See it early and skip pass (at pace) all numpties in lane 3 given situation behind all good. Otherwise I'll tuck in allowing ample space ahead to deal with the combined numpties.
    Scenario 2: As demonstrated on my ride to Valencia. Lorry ahead i'm gaining on is swerving literally between hard shoulder and lane 2. Vehicle in lane 2 overtaking all. Falling asleep? Watching youtube? Drunk?
    Retreat to safe distance, assess, hazards on, flash full beam to raise attention of lorry, 3 mins later no change. No other traffic.
    I can't follow this hazard inevitably. So next time I think safe to do so with no vehicles behind, full beam and gun it past. Quick glance into cab proves it was the mobile phone distraction case but not ruling out the also drunk possibility.

    2. Indicating when coming back in from lanes 2 and 3? Do you naturally do it regardless? Special occasions?
    When I sat my IAM car driving test at age 18 on the Isle of Wight and admittedly we only have one short stretch of dual carridgeway I was taught indicating to come back in after overtake is generally not required as what would other road users expect, especially when most overtaking on the IOW is done on country roads only when safe to do so. Does the overtaken vehicle really need to know my intentions of not intending to carry on on the wrong side of the road?? Appreciate motorways can be different.
    The only time I really indicate back in is when I have a tailgater that I can't get away from and I want to make it clear I'm doing the best I can to let him through and in someway resist him the temptation to undertake before I can get into a safe position ahead and behind me in lane 1 or 2.
    I followed a fleet of Spanish GS12's on the motorway a couple of weeks ago at night and having them all indicate back in was to me nothing more than unnecessary loss of night vision and distraction. Maybe it's a fleet riding thing, I normally ride alone.
    Maybe the rather large reach for the indicators on the GS8 has just made me somewhat lazy. I do indicate back in when there is any chance that the signal will be seen and it is of some use.

    3. Undertaking on 3 lane motorways
    Come on you must have? I'll put my hand up.
    Again I spend a lot of time in Spain where this seems to be a little more accepted on occasion and especially on certain roads.
    When? Numpty in lane 2 or 3 no other traffic around for miles. I think GPS and lane assist function may have a role here. It's great being in the correct lane but 5 miles early?
    How do you deal with this? Are you a flasher? Beeper? Tailgater? Pull of at next opportunity and go for coffee? Hold back and wait hoping numpty just might look in the mirror in the next 15 minutes?
    I give everyone the chance, I hold back, assess their road position and what they might be thinking or experiencing. But after about 3 minutes of no action with my indicator on signalling my intention and following at safe distance I'm done. If they are lane 3, mirror and shoulder checks complete and all is clear I heading for lane 1 to pass at speed but still ready for them to make a last minute decision to regain the position they should've been. I'm safe and getting away from them but I know I've broken the law by doing this.

    4. Being cut up.
    They love this in Spain. Miles of motorway nothing ahead or behind until someone overtakes you and decides to cut in 30 feet ahead when they've passed. Priceless. By default in a car I try never to come back in as minimum until I have clear view of them in my rear mirror and they are continuing to get smaller, if there's nothing behind me (tailgater) I'll go for miles before I regain ahead of them. Why pull in so early? Especially in the rain! There is no reason, as I don't think there is anything you can do as the overtaken other than immediately increase distance ahead of you and look for all the escape routes when they have to brake or take avoiding action themselves.

    Hope you may sympathise a little with the above novice observations or have your own experienced comments to add. I'd like to hear any more of your own pet hates that may cause you to cross the line of the law.

    If you haven't been there Valencians at traffic lights seem to depart about 5 seconds before the light goes green! It's unlike any other Spanish city I've ridden in. Therefore I suggest don't be at the front of queue especially lanes 2 and 3. Lane 1 but still geared and ready to go for the nearest escape if required is my advice.

    Regards

    Fez


    Numpty
    Scottish usage:
    a) Someone who (sometimes unwittingly) by speech or action demonstrates a lack of knowledge or misconception of a particular subject or situation to the amusement of others.

    b) A good humoured admonition, a term of endearment

    c) A reckless, absent minded or unwise person
    a) "No. That wisnae wit she meant, ya big numpty!"

    b) i.e. "Silly billy", "You big dafty"

    c) "That numpty's driving with no lights on!"

  2. #2
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    Some very loooong first posts today
    JohnnyBoxer



    So many roads...........So little time......

  3. #3
    An interesting question- when are you undertaking? Discussed this with the chap who took me for my Masters IAM test- a good rider he was and Policebiker/ instructor for the Special Escort Group, so I think his answer was most probably correct.

    Motorway- three lanes- car ahead in the middle lane ( in the distance ). You are in the left hand lane ( lane 1 ). You are doing 70- car ahead doing 60. If you keep to your lane and pass the car in the middle lane you are not undertaking, you are simply staying in your lane and passing slower traffic ( just like filtering ). If you were behind this car in the middle lane, and then decide to go to lane 1 and pass, thats undertaking.

    Not that I would do either of the above, I would pass on the right hand lane ( lane 3 ) and move over to lane 1 when its safe to do so.

    Lots of danger involved with middle lane hoggers. The other question is - why is a motorbike on a motorway??- get off those things, they are boring!!!!

  4. #4
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    There's a time and a place for undertaking.

    The time....when there's no police presence

    The place....where there is no police presence.

    Fat blokes bounce better

    "The human race is being overun by muppets, it's like fraggle f*ckin rock down here!!!"

    flipfly - Dec 2012

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by thumperbob2002 View Post
    An interesting question- when are you undertaking? Discussed this with the chap who took me for my Masters IAM test- a good rider he was and Policebiker/ instructor for the Special Escort Group, so I think his answer was most probably correct.

    Motorway- three lanes- car ahead in the middle lane ( in the distance ). You are in the left hand lane ( lane 1 ). You are doing 70- car ahead doing 60. If you keep to your lane and pass the car in the middle lane you are not undertaking, you are simply staying in your lane and passing slower traffic ( just like filtering ). If you were behind this car in the middle lane, and then decide to go to lane 1 and pass, thats undertaking.

    Not that I would do either of the above, I would pass on the right hand lane ( lane 3 ) and move over to lane 1 when its safe to do so.

    Lots of danger involved with middle lane hoggers. The other question is - why is a motorbike on a motorway??- get off those things, they are boring!!!!

    Hi Bob,

    Thank for your reply. Interesting comments from the IAM instructor and from how I interpret UK Highway code quite correct. Times I feel need to undertake are following traffic lane 3 that refuse to find there correct position being lane 1 or 2 given every opportunity and time. Tailgaters are now gathering behind me, only choice increase distance ahead of me or tuck back into lane 2 and let someone else with 4 wheels fight the battle.
    If they are lane 2 not regaining 1 then annoying as it is they are not giving the most room for me to safely manoeuvre past, lane 3 is available and always taken rather than the undertake.
    Working at sea we deal with risk of collision and I think the same rule could be applied here. At sea ROC sometimes doesn't exist at 12 miles so the rules applicable can be bent a little, at 2 miles it certainly does IMHO, the rules are clear. Compare this to how far behind the numpty in lane 2 you are when you enter lane 1 and we're probably talking 300m? So follow car at safe distance in lane 2, go lane 1 and rules say you can pass slower moving traffic in lane 1. Relative speeds, distances and conditions all up for interpretation.
    Regardless of this it seems Spain has a must clearer stance being no as below. Congested conditions and inner city traffic still up for interpretation.
    It will be to argue in court if all goes wrong.

    Spain - Undertaking is specifically prohibited, except for inner-city traffic, passing a vehicle clearly turning left or in congested conditions.
    United Kingdom - The Highway Code discourages undertaking on motorways with some exceptions (rule 268): "Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake". Undertaking is permitted in congested conditions when frequent lane changing is not recommended.[6] On other roads, the Code advises drivers "should only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right" (rule 163).[7] Rule 163 uses advisory wording and "will not, in itself, cause a person to be prosecuted", but may be used in evidence to establishing liability in any court proceedings.[8] On all roads, undertaking is permitted if the vehicles in the lane to the right are queueing and slow moving.[citation needed] Undertaking in an aggressive or reckless manner could be considered Careless Driving or more seriously Dangerous Driving, both of which are legally enforceable offences.


    Agree with time spent on motorway, I'll take every opportunity to be on the twisty back roads where possible. On this occasion I needed to clock up miles before it went dark, cold and wet. First plan was to take another day to take my time and board ferry from Denia instead completing my entire lap of Spain. Next time.

    fez

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flipfly View Post
    There's a time and a place for undertaking.

    The time....when there's no police presence

    The place....where there is no police presence.
    Too true Flipfly, we all behave better and with added patience for numpties when there's blues around. You see very little of police cars on the Spanish highways compared to UK, traffic police kindly have there blue lights on continually so you can spot them miles away although I've noticed a rise in unmarked cars recently.

    fez

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    The correct answer would have been - don't go to Spain. It is a horrid, dusty, hot place infested with sangria drinking wrinklies.

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