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Thread: Safety Glance / Lifesaver?

  1. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khulu View Post
    What's "offsiding", please?
    Being in the off side lane to direction of travel

    Mainly used to gain a better view particularly for left hand bends

    I see no problem with it
    Just a Prospect at the moment

  2. #50
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    Thank you. I agree, and have used this method a fair bit especially on mountain bends!
    It's similar to the "in wide out neat" faster cornering approach but for better visibility reasons.
    It works for me!

  3. #51
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    You go out, WHEN you have the vision; not IF you have the vision.

    Sadly, Police Scotland won't do it, most examiner's were trained at Tulliallan; it is a fail.

    My simplistic view, safe = good.

    Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk

  4. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tractors are go View Post
    You go out, WHEN you have the vision; not IF you have the vision.

    Sadly, Police Scotland won't do it, most examiner's were trained at Tulliallan; it is a fail.

    My simplistic view, safe = good.

    Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk
    Yes and never compromise safety for view
    Just a Prospect at the moment

  5. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giles View Post
    NB ....

    For the likes of lord snooty and Mellors who DSA instruct (I did it for seven years before joining the fuzz) .... it's a completely different ball game! If I took a DSA test and rode as i do, I'd probably fail for positioning and no life savers ...
    So would I
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  6. #54
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    This is a very good discussion, and I am glad to say it has remained an exchange of views and ideas and not degenerated into a slanging match as so many do. Even though I have been instructing for 8 years now I have learnt something from the contributions to this thread.
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  7. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Snooty View Post
    This is a very good discussion, and I am glad to say it has remained an exchange of views and ideas and not degenerated into a slanging match as so many do. Even though I have been instructing for 8 years now I have learnt something from the contributions to this thread.
    As have I and as I've never done any advanced course in my life you can always learn!

  8. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Snooty View Post
    This is a very good discussion, and I am glad to say it has remained an exchange of views and ideas and not degenerated into a slanging match as so many do. Even though I have been instructing for 8 years now I have learnt something from the contributions to this thread.
    I agree Mike i too like a fair exchange of views and I'm glad to find that most are in line with my own


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  9. #57
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    Offsiding in Scotland

    I was recently talking to an IAM examiner with much experience in Scotland and he confirmed that Scottish Police do not allow off-siding and consequently any IAM candidates would fail if they were to do it.

    I asked why the police take that view, as it is not, per se, against any law (AFAIK) and his view is that is probably something taught at the Scottish Police College.

    I accept that off-siding may in some circumstances be considered to be 'without due care' but would ask why/how can the Police justify a blanket ban on an activity which at times can be supported on the grounds of enhancing safety?

  10. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by mw3230 View Post
    I was recently talking to an IAM examiner with much experience in Scotland and he confirmed that Scottish Police do not allow off-siding and consequently any IAM candidates would fail if they were to do it.

    I asked why the police take that view, as it is not, per se, against any law (AFAIK) and his view is that is probably something taught at the Scottish Police College.

    I accept that off-siding may in some circumstances be considered to be 'without due care' but would ask why/how can the Police justify a blanket ban on an activity which at times can be supported on the grounds of enhancing safety?

    Different views, different areas, different heads of department ......

    Ultimately one or two people in charge of driver training in any particular area will write the SOP's and the policy stuff, and if they decide X, then that's what they go with.

    Again, it's back to that grey area stuff versus black and white. I have seem some of my own colleagues sailing into left handers with their panniers near enough in the offside hedge. That's fine in the correct circumstances, and there are occasions when I'll do that too. But at other times I sit behind them, and it's just the wrong time to do it, and I'm squirming and thinking 'You are fucking bonkers'!
    It's also (when it's done wrong) completely unfair on Mrs Miggins coming the other way, whose first view of the oncoming motorcyclist is straight at her in her lane.
    The biker might know what he's doing and have it all under control, but she doesn't necessarily know that!!


    So the whole thing is very grey, and it's because of that that I guess some forces bin it altogether.

  11. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by mw3230 View Post
    I'm slightly concerned that this thread may deter anyone considering seeking some advanced training from actually doing so. As usual, those of you who are professional trainers cannot resist sniping at other trainers or training styles (mainly IAM it seems)

    The end product should be someone who can ride progressively, well and above all, safely
    Well if wasn't Giles then it must have been me, as we are the only two who used the unspeakable how dare you words of ROSPA!!!!!!!!!!!!! IAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    To be clear fella I have been a member of both and still a member of one, not a snipe but a real observation relating to the varying standards / foibles expected by individual examiners.

    I would encourage anybody to take some further coaching, (except the riding gods on here obviously ) and I wouldn't give a fluff which organisation they went with.

  12. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giles View Post
    Different views, different areas, different heads of department ......

    Ultimately one or two people in charge of driver training in any particular area will write the SOP's and the policy stuff, and if they decide X, then that's what they go with.

    Again, it's back to that grey area stuff versus black and white. I have seem some of my own colleagues sailing into left handers with their panniers near enough in the offside hedge. That's fine in the correct circumstances, and there are occasions when I'll do that too. But at other times I sit behind them, and it's just the wrong time to do it, and I'm squirming and thinking 'You are fucking bonkers'!
    It's also (when it's done wrong) completely unfair on Mrs Miggins coming the other way, whose first view of the oncoming motorcyclist is straight at her in her lane.
    The biker might know what he's doing and have it all under control, but she doesn't necessarily know that!!


    So the whole thing is very grey, and it's because of that that I guess some forces bin it altogether.
    It comes down ( yet again) to riding your own ride and thinking for yourself in planning etc.

    Long straight with left hander at the end nothing coming opposite way on the straight, nice day, decent cross view etc moving along at good pace get over to the right as far as one wishes to open the view up settle the bike and stick it in as per the view you have which should take into account Mrs Miggins

    Stuff coming the other way only go out as far right as is safe and open the view as far as possible rely more on the cross view
    Just a Prospect at the moment

  13. #61
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    My original question was asked in the context of me being a recently-qualified instructor of riders going for their RSA test, rather than instructor of advanced riding techniques. I do aim to take an advanced riding assessment myself at some point this year, and I imagine there are elements of my riding that might be regarded in such an assessment as advanced (along with bad habits, etc. )

    But as suggest by others, I think it's fair to say that most students at the level at which I'm instructing shouldn't be bombarded with too much advanced stuff (though some have IMO been quite capable of taking some - insofar as I'm in a position to impart - on board), and that some do actually need an element of rigidity or formality to some aspects of riding, albeit with the end goal of my instruction being that - aside from passing their test - they come to think for themselves, rather than riding by numbers.

    Thanks for all your responses folks.

  14. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by mw3230 View Post
    I was recently talking to an IAM examiner with much experience in Scotland and he confirmed that Scottish Police do not allow off-siding and consequently any IAM candidates would fail if they were to do it.

    I asked why the police take that view, as it is not, per se, against any law (AFAIK) and his view is that is probably something taught at the Scottish Police College.

    I accept that off-siding may in some circumstances be considered to be 'without due care' but would ask why/how can the Police justify a blanket ban on an activity which at times can be supported on the grounds of enhancing safety?
    When on IAM business. That's just how it is up here. By definition, when on the other side of the carriageway, you may be in greater danger, even as a riding God! There's also the issue of foreign riders in the Highlands. I think there may have been concern among the polis given fatalities which occurred when the rider was in an offside position either by accident or design. You can imagine the stushie if someone told the meeja that Police Scotland / IAM had approved this. However ... What people do when they are on their own bikes and on their own time is a different matter entirely. As you say, it is not illegal or unsafe per SE.

  15. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotboxer View Post
    When on IAM business. That's just how it is up here. By definition, when on the other side of the carriageway, you may be in greater danger, even as a riding God! There's also the issue of foreign riders in the Highlands. I think there may have been concern among the polis given fatalities which occurred when the rider was in an offside position either by accident or design. You can imagine the stushie if someone told the meeja that a Police Scotland / IAM had approved this. However ... What people do when they are on their own bikes and on their own time is a different matter entirely. As you say, it is not illegal or unsafe per SE.
    Helpful, thank you

  16. #64
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    I've kept reasonably quiet simply because whilst I'm trying to put thoughts in to words ol' Giles has answered for me

    Thank you Giles

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