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Thread: Safety Glance / Lifesaver?

  1. #65
    Yeah yeah yeah .... I'll keep paying yer pension for you don't you fret ....

  2. #66
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    The issue is, that the IAM do say about it; common misconceptions for staff examiners and examiners by Mr Rogers is the document.

    So if I did it south side of Berwick upon tweed a pass, north side a fail ???

    There is no good or bad knowledge, just how you use it !

    The hardest thing as an instructor is saying to someone, I'm sorry you're not going to pass. I couldn't look anyones loved one's in the eyes and say, well I thought they might get better.

    When I was 17, just yesterday you know, I had 7 friends killed during the school holidays, one every week. I was lucky as we all rode the same.

    When I started doing part 1 then cbt, I saw lots of people who were taught to pass the test; I hopefully taught them how to ride.

    It is a learning process, every time I go out. There is no such thing as a perfect drive/ride.

    Moto gp has the best tyres, bikes, perfect road surface and people who have more talent in their little fingers than most of us, and yet they still crash. Go figure !

  3. #67
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    There used to be a cartoon at Hendon of a motorcyclist looking over his shoulder, burried in a hedge on the offside of a lefthand bend saying.

    It's all right Sarge I didnt brake !

    I agree with Micky, you also need to take into account other road users and how they could react, otherwise your hoping and not thinking.

  4. #68
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    I think one of the reasons the the IAM discourage offsiding (UK-wide, not just in Scotland) is that the associates have massively varying levels of skill and experience. It is easy for someone relatively inexperienced to latch into an aspect of riding that they have been shown and think 'yeah, I like that' or even 'that looks cool' without necessarily understanding when it is appropriate or safe. I think offsiding falls into that category, as trying to explain the difference between 'maintaining a view' and 'gaining a view' to someone who thinks it makes them look cool, is very difficult.

    I have seen the scary results of just this situation occurring in our IAM group and fully understand why the IAM would take this stance.

    I think it is also useful to remember that a police rider in training is a very different animal from Joe Bloggs coming in off the street for IAM training from a group. Both are called 'Advanced riding', but are worlds apart. Maybe not all advanced techniques are suitable for the level the current IAM test is pitched at and we should accept that?

    Our group also recommends and organises further advanced training beyond IAM and I think this where some of the more developed techniques have a place.
    Life is short.
    And random.
    That's all you need to know...

  5. #69
    .... Good answer ...


  6. #70
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    Magnet said, "associates have massively varying levels of skill and experience" having ridden with significant numbers of so called advanced qualified riders of both main organisations I'd say that statement is true for those who have passed as well of those who are going through the process.

    Continual improvement has to be the best way, I have long thought the IAM should drop the "Skill for life"tag and insist on 3 yearly retests.

    I'm not entirely happy with not using the full width of the road where safe and appropriate but as much of my riding is on roads without a central white line it often doesn't apply.

  7. #71
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    IAM is going to offer ongoing reassessment membership shortly.

    I am sure we've all been out with someone and wondered how on earth did you pass ??

    Education is a continual learning process, and being honest about your own skills and knowledge, it helps you get home in one piece.



    Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk

  8. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by ymfb View Post
    Magnet said, "associates have massively varying levels of skill and experience" having ridden with significant numbers of so called advanced qualified riders of both main organisations I'd say that statement is true for those who have passed as well of those who are going through the process.

    Continual improvement has to be the best way, I have long thought the IAM should drop the "Skill for life"tag and insist on 3 yearly retests.

    I'm not entirely happy with not using the full width of the road where safe and appropriate but as much of my riding is on roads without a central white line it often doesn't apply.
    Good point.

  9. #73
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    Surely offsiding is always ok as long as you aren't going to come into conflict with any other vehicle.

  10. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Engineer View Post
    Surely offsiding is always ok as long as you aren't going to come into conflict with any other vehicle.
    Indeed done properly it's the best way to see more

  11. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by duckspeed View Post
    done properly
    This is where it can all go so wrong...
    2001 Silver R1150GS,
    (Owned by me since new. Before Ewan got his.)

  12. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by duckspeed View Post
    Indeed done properly it's the best way to see more
    It was suggested to me that if you are a police biker travelling at high speeds (three figures) then every tiny advantage achieved by off-siding can be justified.

    For the average rider, even experienced advanced riders, the advantage to be gained is so small that the disadvantages in terms of possible danger from other road users outweighs any potential benefit.

    Consequently I changed from a rider who off-sided quite often (when I considered it safe to do so, was perhaps even a little blasé) to a rider who thinks twice about any advantage I'm likely to gain and now generally I stay on my side of the road - although undoubtedly there are times when it can be useful, given clear sight lines and the ability to lessen bends

  13. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by mw3230 View Post
    It was suggested to me that if you are a police biker travelling at high speeds (three figures) then every tiny advantage achieved by off-siding can be justified.

    For the average rider, even experienced advanced riders, the advantage to be gained is so small that the disadvantages in terms of possible danger from other road users outweighs any potential benefit.

    Consequently I changed from a rider who off-sided quite often (when I considered it safe to do so, was perhaps even a little blasé) to a rider who thinks twice about any advantage I'm likely to gain and now generally I stay on my side of the road - although undoubtedly there are times when it can be useful, given clear sight lines and the ability to lessen bends

    I think generally that's pretty much spot on. There is most certainly a strong correlation between your speed and how much of the road you're using / need to use. (Think about your 30 limits - are you going to position or relax a bit, and for the most part pretty much sit in the middle of the road?) (For the most part ... that doesn't mean don't position in a limit ... you may well need to ..)

    I think there's also a big a difference between straight lining stuff / ironing out those kinks in the road, and approaching a left hand bend from way out on the off side.

    It's that bend approach that gets my toes curling. Absolutely fine in my book on those open bends where the view is good, but on those classic limit point bends where you really can't see any more than those two joined verges, if you're approaching that from way out on the offside, you're going to give someone a hell of a fright if they suddenly come into view.

    When I did a lot of my initial Police training I remember the benchmark was "If their first view of you is you, already coming back in, (so by that, we mean it's instantly obvious to Mrs Miggins that your course / direction of travel is back to your side of the road then that's ok, but it's not ok if you're out there, and not already on your way back in".

    Well .... I've toned down that a lot as I've grown in experience. For me, their first view of me and I want to be pretty much on the correct side. That doesn't mean to say I won't be out there, but almost like judging your limit points and when to start scrubbing off speed, I sort of judge my position too and when to bring it in .. (ie ... give it up now .... if something comes into view it's not fair on them ... ).

    So this sort of thing;



    Of course I'd pinch a bit of that, but i'd probably only iron out those few feet of the offside, and ultimately I'm heading for a point just inside the hazard lines, where they finish that little straight run and start to bear left. That's my goal, my keith Code 'turn in point' for want of a better word, and I've identified that point, the second it's come into view. (Which takes us right back to the OP's initial question, and that your brain won't be picking up on those far off 'I want to be there' bits of the road, if you're living in a twenty yard bubble of life savers and shoulder checks).

    Another example of that 'identify where I want to be' moment' ;



    Would I chop this out? yes. Would I be clipping the offside verge? No! Where am I heading? Just inside my white line in that off side position for the left hander. (about a mm below the 'horizon' of the tarmac in the photo). Is that different to barrelling down a straight bit of road and into a left hander on the wrong side of the road? Meh ... yes, to me it is. The above scenario to me is perfectly acceptable.

    One more point on off siding and in particular straight lining prior to a bend ..

    These;



    Tempting to straight line right? (so we're not talking brush the offside hedge, we're just talking straight line, maybe pinch a few inches of the offside). Eight out of ten times you'll get away with it, but it's uncanny how often another vehicle can completely hide in that dead section that you can't see. Don't be tempted to be greedy here, run it deep and get that view ... !



    Another similar example;



    Take the finger post out of the equation and imaging there are no junctions there. Again, the temptation here is to come off your nearside line early for that left hander. Wait ..! Run it deep ... You can bet your bottom dollar theres something in there ...


  14. #78
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    Good stuff this is what we need rather than the post's on knife sharpening and photography

  15. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norfolk Tiger View Post
    Good stuff this is what we need rather than the post's on knife sharpening and photography
    Exactly

    He seems to know a bit about this subject
    Why PLAN when you can play it by BEER

  16. #80
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    In all of Giles's photos above the vision ahead is obscured by one feature or another so common sense tells me to stay on my side of the road.

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