Battery drain - part 2

Beemerman59

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Rather than update an old thread thought I would start a fresh one as I've tried everything to date with no success to find the electrical drain on my '08 GSA when the ignition is off. However, I'm wondering if I have stumbled upon the culprit. Having disconnected everything I can find to disconnect and wiring to check I had given up the ghost and resigned myself that a visit to a dealer will be in order. The bike runs perfectly, there are no fault codes showing from the GS911 but it still drains the battery by 0.4v every 24 hours. So over Easter I stripped everything off the bike to take it back to OEM spec as it will save the dealer from checking everything I have already done - and charging me for it.

However, I'm still using the bike in the meantime and wanted to power my Zumo 660 so bought the canbus socket from Nippy's to do just that. Wired up the Zumo harness tonight and plugged it into the canbus connector just behind the oil cooler. When I put the Zumo in the cradle however, and the ignition was off at this point, the Zumo powered straight up, not under battery power but from the Canbus live feed. Nothing changes with the ignition on, the zumo is still powered as it should be. When turning the ignition off, the Zumo stays powered up for about 60 seconds then I get the "powering off" notice and do I want to use battery power etc. If I do nothing, 4 seconds later the zumo goes back into powered mode. The zumo then just goes into a continual cycle of 60 seconds powered, 4 seconds on battery and then 60 seconds powered - all with ignition off.

Could this be the cause of the battery drain? I know the drain was happening without the zumo cradle plugged in but it seems to me that the canbus socket is being powered through this 60 secs on/4 secs off cycle continually irrespective of anything connected to it or whether the ignition is on or off. In order to do that the ECU must still be operating to some extent rather than off to sleep.

Anyone had this problem and know what the fix is? Simple ECU software update or a new ECU?

Forgot to add - if I turn the zumo off manually and with ignition off then it will power itself back up again and continue the 60 second cycle.
 
I had this and it was something plugged into the system that I had done. It was actually a power filter for the intercom. For some reason it was making the system think it should still be on, kinda like the official bmw charger does.
 
Beemerman59 said:
Rather than update an old thread thought I would start a fresh one as I've tried everything to date with no success to find the electrical drain on my '08 GSA when the ignition is off. However, I'm wondering if I have stumbled upon the culprit. Having disconnected everything I can find to disconnect and wiring to check I had given up the ghost and resigned myself that a visit to a dealer will be in order. The bike runs perfectly, there are no fault codes showing from the GS911 but it still drains the battery by 0.4v every 24 hours. So over Easter I stripped everything off the bike to take it back to OEM spec as it will save the dealer from checking everything I have already done - and charging me for it.

However, I'm still using the bike in the meantime and wanted to power my Zumo 660 so bought the canbus socket from Nippy's to do just that. Wired up the Zumo harness tonight and plugged it into the canbus connector just behind the oil cooler. When I put the Zumo in the cradle however, and the ignition was off at this point, the Zumo powered straight up, not under battery power but from the Canbus live feed. Nothing changes with the ignition on, the zumo is still powered as it should be. When turning the ignition off, the Zumo stays powered up for about 60 seconds then I get the "powering off" notice and do I want to use battery power etc. If I do nothing, 4 seconds later the zumo goes back into powered mode. The zumo then just goes into a continual cycle of 60 seconds powered, 4 seconds on battery and then 60 seconds powered - all with ignition off.

Could this be the cause of the battery drain? I know the drain was happening without the zumo cradle plugged in but it seems to me that the canbus socket is being powered through this 60 secs on/4 secs off cycle continually irrespective of anything connected to it or whether the ignition is on or off. In order to do that the ECU must still be operating to some extent rather than off to sleep.

Anyone had this problem and know what the fix is? Simple ECU software update or a new ECU?

Forgot to add - if I turn the zumo off manually and with ignition off then it will power itself back up again and continue the 60 second cycle.
Click to expand...

Yes I had this power sequencing on an 2006 R1200GS. There is a software update that BMW do that fixes this problem. I think you need to take it to the dealer and get them to bring the bikes software up to the latest versions.

Ian
 
Sounds like there's a good chance this is the problem then. Also, the canbus powered accessory socket under the seat is live all the time - is that correct or should that only become live with the ignition on? Its been so long since I used that socket I can't remember!
 
I have the same problem with my 2007 GSA. Its been looked at by a BMW dealer and a local bike garage but both have resulted in new batterys - I've had 2 in 2 years but the bike wont start if left off the Optimate for more than one night!! My bike is now back in the dealer waiting for a new ABS module so I'll mention the power drain issue and likelihood of the software update just in case?!

Bazzer
 
Bazzer66 said:
I have the same problem with my 2007 GSA. Its been looked at by a BMW dealer and a local bike garage but both have resulted in new batterys - I've had 2 in 2 years but the bike wont start if left off the Optimate for more than one night!! My bike is now back in the dealer waiting for a new ABS module so I'll mention the power drain issue and likelihood of the software update just in case?!

Bazzer
Click to expand...

I'd be interested in the result and if its just a software update what the cost is. I know its not my battery causing the problem - if the battery is disconnected from the bike there's no drain. I also have two Odyssey batteries, one is three years old the other a year old and they both work fine on my other bike.
 
Have also now established that the accessory plug under the seat is doing the same cycle - 60 seconds powered, couple off and repeat...

Sent from my GT-I8190N using Tapatalk
 
It should be a no-cost firmware update at the dealership. I had all this with my first early 2004 GS (aka development mule). What year bike do you have?

This fault was caused very early on during a software revision (about 2006 if my memory is correct), they fixed a few things with the bike and cocked up the can bus power management with an update, which then required another update to undo the cock up as owners discovered flat batteries.

I'm surprised to hear anyone has this issue now, it should be ancient history.
 
Wonder if thats why my battery went flat when stood? ...

I popped it on the optimate, and its came back as good

its a 2006.... how would you check its got the right SW revision?

Mart
 
Pukmeister said:
It should be a no-cost firmware update at the dealership. I had all this with my first early 2004 GS (aka development mule). What year bike do you have?

This fault was caused very early on during a software revision (about 2006 if my memory is correct), they fixed a few things with the bike and cocked up the can bus power management with an update, which then required another update to undo the cock up as owners discovered flat batteries.

I'm surprised to hear anyone has this issue now, it should be ancient history.
Click to expand...

Having spoken to the dealer and booked it in, it would seem my bike has the latest revision already - it's an '08. Some internet research threw up a few threads about similar issues which turned out to be a failure in the ZFE controller where a solid state relay had burnt out. This left both the auxiliary power plug and satnav canbus connector live with the ignition off - exact problem I have. So it may be hardware after all and not in an area I can fix - I'm expecting the cost of a new ZFE to be on the steep side if that's what it is. I've booked a demo of an S1000XR while I'm there to take my mind off the cost.....
 
I believe the ZFE is coded according to the options list/build spec during production, if it needs replacing I bet it will require coding by the mothership, and priced accordingly (fecking dear in other words). Good luck.

If all else fails, how about getting the ZFE hardware repaired by a specialist ecu repairer rather than the manufacturers ?
 
Pukmeister said:
I believe the ZFE is coded according to the options list/build spec during production, if it needs replacing I bet it will require coding by the mothership, and priced accordingly (fecking dear in other words). Good luck.

If all else fails, how about getting the ZFE hardware repaired by a specialist ecu repairer rather than the manufacturers ?
Click to expand...

That's an option I hadn't considered - thanks. I didn't know companies existed that did that. I will wait until the problem has been confirmed by the dealer and then make a decision. I can live with the problem myself as its not too much hassle to disconnect the negative from the battery when not using the bike for a few days or keep on the Optimate but I would need a fix were I to sell the bike.
 
ZFE's come in 3 types with sub versions

ZFE 1 ZFE Basic Low, Mid, High

ZFE 2 ZFE Low

ZFE 3 ZFE High Full, No ESA ESA only

ZFE Basic Low has our old favorite ABS on Pin 32.. ie it looks for an input from the ABS

module , and then sends the signal round the canbus

The ZFE low has no abs connection on pin 32 :) so it is not looking for an input on pin 32 to send out.. ;)

Have you run a diagnostic on the ZFE to see if its reporting any errors?

SH ZFE's are on ebay, if you know your part number you could always try on there for a

replacement.

I'm sure some of the more Techy members could tell you if the ZFE requires coding to the bike .


If i recall someone had one done recently via a dealer it was £400 odd i think
 
What happens if you disconnect the Zumo cradle? Could it be that the ZFE senses the presence of the male connector and thinks you want the circuit powered. Any 12v to 5v conversion (Zumo power supply) in the circuit will then create a power demand and pull down the battery
 
Kritou said:
What happens if you disconnect the Zumo cradle? Could it be that the ZFE senses the presence of the male connector and thinks you want the circuit powered. Any 12v to 5v conversion (Zumo power supply) in the circuit will then create a power demand and pull down the battery
Click to expand...

With the cradle disconnected, I'm still getting 12v for 60 seconds, then a drop to 0.02v for 4 seconds and then back up to 12v at the connector. This is a continous cycle with nothing connected externally to the bike. Ignition hasn't been switched on for over 48 hours now. I get the same cycling on/off at the accessory socket as well.

I've noticed that Geoff at Hilltop does ECU repairs - as mine has already been remapped by him and he knows the BMW ECU well, if it turns out to be the ZFE I will get in touch with him.
 
Maybe you are looking too deeply just because it's a complex system doesn't mean it will be a complex fault.
You need to be checking for the drain using an amp meter, a quality amp clamp is best, clip over all the cables from either battery post, give the systems time to shut down then monitor the reading , anything over 0.03 amps is a drain.
 
The most likely culprit will be anything fitted after the bike was built.
 
duckspeed said:
Maybe you are looking too deeply just because it's a complex system doesn't mean it will be a complex fault.
You need to be checking for the drain using an amp meter, a quality amp clamp is best, clip over all the cables from either battery post, give the systems time to shut down then monitor the reading , anything over 0.03 amps is a drain.
Click to expand...

There is nothing connected to the bike that wasn't factory installed - I have removed everything I had previously connected via a fuse box that was connected direct to the battery. There are no faults showing on the ZFE using a GS911. The only thing that isn't working as intended is the canbus isn't shutting down power at both the accessory socket and canbus connector when the ignition is off.
 
Beemerman59 said:
There is nothing connected to the bike that wasn't factory installed - I have removed everything I had previously connected via a fuse box that was connected direct to the battery. There are no faults showing on the ZFE using a GS911. The only thing that isn't working as intended is the canbus isn't shutting down power at both the accessory socket and canbus connector when the ignition is off.
Click to expand...

How much current drain is there? And does it stay present indefinitely?
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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