Changes in routing 2

DottyDog

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Export the planned ride as a KML file, convert to GPX, manually move onto device. Import as trip on the device. If it doesn't prompt you to import, go to tracks and use the '"create trip" function.

Caveat - as proven on a Nav V

So I thought I'd share my experiences with this having used my described approach to build a route I've done over the weekend. Just shy of 600 miles from Manchester through Yorkshire, Northumberland and up into Hawick.

I created 3 separate routes as I described in an earlier thread and these were saved under trip planner on the Nav V. Day 1, 2 and 3.

All each instance the route worked perfectly. However, if you missed a turn or decided to take a slightly different route the Nav V would recalculate the whole route and decide itself which way to take you based on the setting you had e.g. Curvy or fastest route. This is a a real limitation in my opinion. It was possible to get round it by retracing your steps and then setting the trip going again, but not user friendly and fiddly on the go.

So in conclusion, it works, but with limitations. Out of curiosity, if I had planned everything in basecamp and missed a turn for instance, would the Nav v reroute to get me back on the planned track or would it have had the same behaviour?

Ps. Roads and scenery around the borders are/is amazing as is the A689 from Hartside Cafe to Penrith. Passed a lot of GS's this weekend. If you saw an orange helmet tosser with a Caterham in tow, that was me!


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So I thought I'd share my experiences with this having used my described approach to build a route I've done over the weekend. Just shy of 600 miles from Manchester through Yorkshire, Northumberland and up into Hawick.

I created 3 separate routes as I described in an earlier thread and these were saved under trip planner on the Nav V. Day 1, 2 and 3.

All each instance the route worked perfectly. However, if you missed a turn or decided to take a slightly different route the Nav V would recalculate the whole route and decide itself which way to take you based on the setting you had e.g. Curvy or fastest route. This is a a real limitation in my opinion. It was possible to get round it by retracing your steps and then setting the trip going again, but not user friendly and fiddly on the go.

So in conclusion, it works, but with limitations. Out of curiosity, if I had planned everything in basecamp and missed a turn for instance, would the Nav v reroute to get me back on the planned track or would it have had the same behaviour?

Ps. Roads and scenery around the borders are/is amazing as is the A689 from Hartside Cafe to Penrith. Passed a lot of GS's this weekend. If you saw an orange helmet tosser with a Caterham in tow, that was me!


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depends on your use of via or waypoints but it should route you on to the next point and then continue the planned route. I certainly expect my routes, made using Mapsource, to do that.

John
 
Let's start at the beginning.

You are persisting in creating routes in MotoGoLoco / Tyre and now wondering why you are seeing odd results. That's OK, as the odd results would probably be there if you used BaseCamp and / or probably Mapsource but let's not get into that fine distinction.

What you are probably experiencing is nothing more than the 'Waypoint' affect. Each time you moved the MotoGoLoco route onto a specific road you created a specific point through which you wished to travel through. Think of it as you having created an electrical beacon in an otherwise featureless ocean or desert. The dumb (but really very clever) device knows that you have missed the point out. It doesn't know WHY you have missed it out but it does remember that you told it you MUST go through it, so it keeps routing you back until you do it. You'd see the same if you created and dragged the route around in BaseCamp but not necessarily in Mapsource.

Now, there are lots of ways to avoid this very annoying or really quite useful phenomenon occurring. Why might it be useful? Well, let's say you wanted to meet two or more like minded souls in a specific biker friendly cafe for a chill, a brew, some craic and then some hooning. You'd be cursing God above, Garmin and everyone else besides if your stupid dumb device failed to route you to exactly the front door of the biker friendly cafe for a chill, a brew and some craic, all before some hooning. In short, you'd want the Waypoint to work, would you not? You'd also like to maybe know what time you'd get there and / or maybe know if you spent 45 minutes chillin' wiv yo bro's, what affect the 45 minutes might have on your overall route, perhaps?

So, Waypoints can be useful. I hope we can agree? Yes? Great, let's move on.

Let's now pretend that Wapoints are a pain in the arse, just as you find them to be. You want them to be just simple shaping points. Great, that's easy.... Start by stopping using fecking MotoGoLoco / Tyre. But, if you must use them, start to fecking learn, preferably from them, how the third party route creation software integrates with Garmin products. They have a bikermate duty to explain this to you, their customer and proponent. It's NOT Garmin's job any more than it's your doctor's job to explain in intimate detail how to tone the sky when you next do watercolour painting. Got it? Great. Failing that, look at the huge number of threads on this site that give (sometimes some very good) advice on 'Wapoints'. 'Shaping points', whether Mapsource is better at dealing with them than BaseCamp, how to alter them both within your computer and within your Navigator V itself, For example, the Navigator V's handbook - or several threads - explains the 'Skip' function. You'll find it really useful, I'm sure.

Report back when you've spoken to MotoGoLoco and / or Tyre, read some threads, the owner's handbook and tried their answers. There are two stickies on how to contact Tyre and MotoGoLoco, along with their no doubt very helpful forums.
 
I think you could have saved yourself a lot of time by just writing a sentence that simply, and perhaps without a hint of arrogance, suggested that I might be doing something wrong and to look for some more information on it. I'm sorry that I'm not as experienced as you. I won't bother contributing again.
 
Don't let one person, who obviously has issues of his own, put you off. Post away, you might get a few less than helpful replies but there are a lot of knowledgeable and helpful folk on here.

John
 
Oh stop whinging.

I've created you a whole thread of your own. You'll get the rest of your answer I don't doubt. But, just out of interest, have you tried the MotoGoLoco and Tyre forums for an answer? It's their software you are using for your route creation after all.
 
Don't let one person, who obviously has issues of his own, put you off. Post away, you might get a few less than helpful replies but there are a lot of knowledgeable and helpful folk on here.

John

OK, John, what's your answer? I gave him the start by explaing why he was encountering the problem of being routed back through a point, why being routed back through a point might indeed be helpful and where he might find some more help. All he needs to know now is:

1. How to change a waypoint into a shaping point. He can do it very easily in BaseCamp (if he used it) and / or never necessarily have a waypoint at all if if he used Mapsource to create his routes, as you have told us many times.

2. How to use his Nav V to change waypoints into shaping points and visa versa. There's several threads on it. I can't be arsed to fire up my Nav V to remember the exact sequence but maybe you can? *

But hey, here's a start:

http://www.poi-factory.com/node/45037 It's not strictly accurate as waypoints, shaping points and / or via points have been around for years but the guts of it are about right.

Here's another: http://www.k1600forum.com/forum/bmw...ons/64074-nav-v-custom-routes-basecamp-2.html This one is not quite perfect as it assumes the owner starts their life in BaseCamp, which the OP (and to some degree or another, you too John) doesn't. But still, it gives some help. That lower down in the thread it starts to mention the 'Skip' function within the Nav V is maybe a bonus, too.

Buried in this very nice webpage there's an explanation of some of the Nav V's features and how it integrates with BaseCamp, which the dumb device is designed to do. Some of this will be useful to the OP but some irrelevant as he prefers to use MotoGoLoco and / or Tyre, apparently. No, I don't know the advantages either (see your question in another thread, John) http://globeriders.com/article_pages/article07_gps/article07_nav5.shtml

Here's something about skipping waypoints with the Nav V: http://www.k1600forum.com/forum/bmw...-v-what-do-you-do-when-you-skip-waypoint.html Though you'll see that there is a shed load of confusion out there, along with bods saying: "Well on my 660...." when the poor bod was asking about his latest edition Nav V, which operates differently to some degree or another.
 
* I've relented. Here's how to change a waypoint into a shaping point and visa-versa from within a Navigator V.

Home screen

Apps

Trip planner

Trip

Blue dots (unannounced shaping points) / orange flags (announced waypoints)

Top left corner, three horizontal lines, tap on them

Edit destinations

Tap on blue dot or orange flag

A blue dot will change into an orange flag, whilst an orange flag will change into a blue dot. When changing from an orange flag into a blue dot, an additional screen will pop up. Read it and act accordingly.

You may see some recalculation. Worry about it or not as you see fit. Either way, there are loads of posts, threads and websites on the whole thorny recalculation issue.

===

OP, I think from the other thread that you miss out BaseCamp and / Mapsource entirely, loading your MototGoLoco / Tyre routes directly into your Navigator V? In a way that's maybe a pity as the use of the Garmin software might make it ultimately easier for you to alter waypoints into shaping points and visa-versa. Using either piece of Garmin software might even remove the need to do any tidying up at all. But, at least you now know how to use your Navigator V device to make the changes and / or that the 'Skip' function is there to help as well.

The Nav V, along with its associated BaseCamp software is now incredibly powerful. You can do all sorts of things from within the device (or the software) with the blue dots, orange flags, start flag (green) and chequered flag (end). You can do some of them from within Mapsource, too.

Even if you start in MotoGoLoco or Tyre - which are only really useful if you want to avoid BaseCamp and Mapsource in their entirety and / or you really do prefer plotting routes in Google maps - Garmin are still incredibly accommodating. You can still change all sorts of things within the Nav V itself and / or use its other functions, like 'Skip'.

Have fun, you really can't break it..... and get to love all the Garmin software. At least if nothing else, you'll start to cut out the possible additional vaguaries that use of third party software possibly brings with it. That being said, both MotoGoLoco and Tyre have their own help pages and forums, I don't doubt that their contributors will have lots of answers too.
 
1. How to change a waypoint into a shaping point. He can do it very easily in BaseCamp (if he used it) and / or never necessarily have a waypoint at all if if he used Mapsource to create his routes, as you have told us many times.

If you were to pay attention you would know that I r the use waypoints, start and end of a route (presuming the idea is to get to a specific place) I have said this so many times but maybe you missed it. Waypoints are very useful but I do think people need to be careful because of the tendency of the device to force you to go to them. So start at one, finish at one, maybe put one along the route if you really need to go there but otherwise use via or shaping points.

I do hope that has helped clear your obvious confusion.

John
 
If you were to pay attention you would know that I r the use waypoints, start and end of a route (presuming the idea is to get to a specific place) I have said this so many times but maybe you missed it. Waypoints are very useful but I do think people need to be careful because of the tendency of the device to force you to go to them. So start at one, finish at one, maybe put one along the route if you really need to go there but otherwise use via or shaping points.

John

I know you do John, you've told us all lots of times. I was merely confirming to the OP that what's possible in BaseCamp is possible in Mapsource and that, within Mapsource, it's easy to never have a waypoint appear when shaping routes, unlike BaseCamp where you do have to alter them manually. You have told us that lots of times, too. We accept it, without question, trust me.

I also acknowledged in post three that waypoints (the things the OP was struggling with, as they kept sending him backwards if he missed them) do have a very useful function, as he'll probably discover when he misses the biker friendly cafe he'd set his heart on visiting.

Of course we could have gone on to discuss the rights and wrongs of recalculation (on, off and prompted) and the role that it - along with sometimes, preference settings too - plays when running routes with and without waypoints. We can probably assume from the fellow's post that his device is recaluting in order to send him back through a waypoint that's been missed; we know that you have very clear views on this. But, for now at least, he's been made aware of the Nav V device's ability to change a waypoint into a shaping point and of the 'Skip' function, which may well help him no end to avoid going back through missed out waypoints.
 
Dear Mr Sarcastic

I think you need to go back and read the first post. The OP does not mention going back to waypoints, he says the device recalculates solely on the basis of its setting, ignoring his route. This sounds to me like he has no waypoints or via points. I could be wrong but at least my first response was to mention such things in the hope the OP would elaborate.

Whilst I acknowledge the huge amount of work you do on here helping others, your air of condescension that came across in your initial rely was less than helpful. It really is OK to help folk without a cloak of sarcasm . Nothing wrong with banter between those who know each other but when used where this mutual knowledge is absent such banter is, as we have seen from the OPs reaction, not in the spirit of this fine forum.

John
 
I know, I was answering his only question,which was:

However, if you missed a turn or decided to take a slightly different route the Nav V would recalculate the whole route and decide itself which way to take you based on the setting you had e.g. Curvy or fastest route.

Out of curiosity, if I had planned everything in basecamp and missed a turn for instance, would the Nav v reroute to get me back on the planned track or would it have had the same behaviour?

Which I then expanded to suggest several potentially successful ways of avoiding or reducing the problem. All quite possibly more useful your answer in post two, which - whilst it possibly explained the cause of his frustration - only told him / us of your use of Mapsource.

But never mind, he's now got all his answers in all the colours in all the sizes, as Beatie used to say in her adverts.
 
At the risk of opening a massive can of worms, I think there are at least 3 types of route-defining point. Try creating a route in Basecamp with a start and end waypoint. Export the route as a .gpx file and open it in a text editor such as Windows Notepad. You'll most likeley find dozens of GPS coordinates listed in there, in addition to the start and end waypoints. However, if you open the route properties in Basecamp/Mapsource you won't see these intermediate points listed. They're hidden from view, but they're nevertheless important in defining the route as it appears on the satnav. Let's call them 'ghost points' because someone else somewhere on t'web has already done so.

Basecamp then allows you to create 'announced' points and 'not-announced' (shaping points), and to change these vice-versa. They're created automatically when buidling a route, either by hopping from one point to another, or by drag n drop. It seems to me that a point is announced if there happens to be a named feature at that GPS location - for example, a school, or shop, or road name.

When you run the route on the Nav V (this doesn't apply to the Zumo 220) you are presented with the start and end points, and a list of the announced points in between. It then confusingly asks you where you want to go to (the correct answer is generally the first or second point in the list, not the final point...but I digress).

If you ride off route I think that any recalculation that takes place (you can of course turn off recalc...but that's another digression) first of all loses the 'ghost points' in the route, at least those up to the next 'announced point'. If you miss riding through an 'announced point' it will try to direct you back there. You need to tell the Nav V to skip that point to carry on along the route. If you miss riding through a shaping (unannounced) point once you are beyond that point it will recalculate to take you to the next shaping point.

I think the OP's route from Motogoloco was composed entirely of 'ghost points' (as interpreted by the Nav V). It was reproduced correctly by the Nav V, but as soon as it recalcuated, all the ghost points were ignored, and the route was calculated according to the device preferences (fast, short n curly etc) to the final destination point. The moral of the story for the OP is to stop wasting time with 3rd party s/w and learn to use Garmin's own Basecamp as you have a much greater chance of reliable routing out on the road.
 


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