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Thread: Ardennes, Vosges, Black Forest, Stelvio, Italian Lakes

  1. #17
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    Views from Stelvio are great and if it is a logical route from where you are to where your going then fine. An excursion on a time limited trip to take it in is not sensible.....

    Unless you want to tick it off a list or be able to tell everyone else how crap it is with an air of authority.

    Splugen is awesome if you get it in good weather, would probably avoid it in awful weather.

  2. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyBoxer View Post
    Unless you have a burning desire or are on a promise.........I'd give Lake Garda/Sirmione a miss and what's the attraction of Genoa?
    My thoughts exactly. Bypass Genoa (the Southampton of the Med) and head for Ste Marguarita Ligure, Camogli or Rapallo.

    Garda on the other hand (IMO) is delightful, but very busy in the summer.

    Also the Stelvio is overrated, it wouldn't be on my list of must-do passes.
    There can only be 11 and I'm one.

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  3. #19
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    From Zurich all the passes mentioned in post # 8 are on the way to the lakes, which is very good as I don't have to divert from the main itinerary. Stelvio and Timmelsjoch are not on the way and if I do one (Timmelsjoch?) I might want to do the Stelvio as it is on the way back to the main route. If you guys tell me that both can be avoided then I'd probably do so and focus on all the others.

    Regarding the weather I hope that beginning of September is going to be good. If not I'll have to amend the itinerary a bit.

    Are you really comparing Genoa to Southampton? Please!
    As previously mentioned, it's my hometown and that's why it is the end of the journey. I know Santa Margherita Ligure, Camogli and Rapallo very well. I go there every time I'm back home. I'm going to give some good tips for the next time you go there. Visit the following places:
    - San Rocco > do the path that goes to Portofino passing by San Fruttuoso abbey. Simply stunning!
    - Cinque Terre: Corniglia, Manarola, Monterosso al Mare, Riomaggiore, Vernazza
    - Portovenere
    - Faiallo Pass
    - Turchino Pass
    - Road from Rossiglione to Tiglieto, which locals call 'motoland'. Very twisty road, perfect tarmac

    If I think of anything else I'll let you guys know.

  4. #20
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    [QUOTE=Neil W;4731688]Zurich south and do the three passes loop of the Susten, Grimsel and Furka on the way , also as an option consider the Splugen south from Chur towards Lake Como (underrated)

    +1 for wot he said, taking all of these on my way to Lake Come for 4 days in August. Doing stelvio as a day out from LC. Enjoy the trip....

  5. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasher View Post
    Splugen is awesome if you get it in good weather, would probably avoid it in awful weather.
    Got caught out on the Splugen in my car, tight switchbacks in galleria, had to do 1 reverse to get round when a big motor came the other way.
    Did not see it till we were both on the turn

  6. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gab View Post
    From Zurich all the passes mentioned in post # 8 are on the way to the lakes, which is very good as I don't have to divert from the main itinerary. Stelvio and Timmelsjoch are not on the way and if I do one (Timmelsjoch?) I might want to do the Stelvio as it is on the way back to the main route. If you guys tell me that both can be avoided then I'd probably do so and focus on all the others.

    Regarding the weather I hope that beginning of September is going to be good. If not I'll have to amend the itinerary a bit.

    Are you really comparing Genoa to Southampton? Please!
    As previously mentioned, it's my hometown and that's why it is the end of the journey. I know Santa Margherita Ligure, Camogli and Rapallo very well. I go there every time I'm back home. I'm going to give some good tips for the next time you go there. Visit the following places:
    - San Rocco > do the path that goes to Portofino passing by San Fruttuoso abbey. Simply stunning!
    - Cinque Terre: Corniglia, Manarola, Monterosso al Mare, Riomaggiore, Vernazza
    - Portovenere
    - Faiallo Pass
    - Turchino Pass
    - Road from Rossiglione to Tiglieto, which locals call 'motoland'. Very twisty road, perfect tarmac

    If I think of anything else I'll let you guys know.
    Good advice, cheers
    Your English is far better than our Italian
    JohnnyBoxer



    So many roads...........So little time......

  7. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyBoxer View Post
    Good advice, cheers
    Your English is far better than our Italian
    My English is rubbish. But as long as you can understand me we are all happy

    If you guys ever planned to go to Liguria do not hesitate to ask. There are a lot of amazing places to visit and good roads to ride

  8. #24
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    I must be the only one that loves the stelvio, it's iconic but a **** to get to from the Bolzano end.

  9. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gab View Post
    Are you really comparing Genoa to Southampton? Please!
    I'll concede the food and weather are better
    - San Rocco > do the path that goes to Portofino passing by San Fruttuoso abbey. Simply stunning!
    Indeed, with lunch at San Fruttuoso on the way and the boat back to Ste Marherita.
    - Cinque Terre: Corniglia, Manarola, Monterosso al Mare, Riomaggiore, Vernazza
    Which are spectacular, but hard to access.
    - Portovenere
    - Faiallo Pass
    - Turchino Pass
    - Road from Rossiglione to Tiglieto, which locals call 'motoland'. Very twisty road, perfect tarmac
    These are going on my list.
    There can only be 11 and I'm one.

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  10. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolzy View Post
    I'll concede the food and weather are better
    Indeed, with lunch at San Fruttuoso on the way and the boat back to Ste Marherita.
    Which are spectacular, but hard to access.
    These are going on my list.
    Food, weather and also the biggest historic centre in Europe. What about that?

    Lunch at San Fruttuoso and boat back to either Santa Margherita or Camogli.

    Yeah, Cinque Terre are not easy to reach. Isn't it one of the things that make them spectacular?!

    Happy that some places are going to your bucket list!

  11. #27
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    Just one thing having done the Timmelsjoch/Jaufen and the Splugen both north to south and south to north I found both of them flowed better when travelling in the southerly direction.

    As for the Susten/Grimsel and Furka loop in my opinion there is very little difference which way around you do the loop although by doing them in that order starting from Wassen you get better views of the Rhone Glacier

  12. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil W View Post
    Just one thing having done the Timmelsjoch/Jaufen and the Splugen both north to south and south to north I found both of them flowed better when travelling in the southerly direction.

    As for the Susten/Grimsel and Furka loop in my opinion there is very little difference which way around you do the loop although by doing them in that order starting from Wassen you get better views of the Rhone Glacier
    Last time I was there you could barely see the white line in the middle of the road.
    There can only be 11 and I'm one.

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  13. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil W View Post
    Just one thing having done the Timmelsjoch/Jaufen and the Splugen both north to south and south to north I found both of them flowed better when travelling in the southerly direction.

    As for the Susten/Grimsel and Furka loop in my opinion there is very little difference which way around you do the loop although by doing them in that order starting from Wassen you get better views of the Rhone Glacier
    That's a very good tip. Thanks Neil!

  14. #30
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    As for the Susten/Grimsel and Furka loop in my opinion there is very little difference which way around you do the loop although by doing them in that order starting from Wassen you get better views of the Rhone Glacier[/QUOTE]

    great, thats the route i have planned... glad i have got something right

  15. #31
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    Dont know how or if it fits in, but, if coming from Switzerland in to Italy, FLUELLApass from Davos. Probably one of my favourites.

  16. #32
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    I think both the Susten and and Grimsel are better starting from the Northern end of the Grimsell, and Furka is OK either way.

    Fluella is great but probably hard to work in.

    You could spend several days in the Ardennes, Black Forest, Vosges, Andermatt and Stelvio areas and turn this into a 3 week trip.

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