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Thread: Ardennes, Vosges, Black Forest, Stelvio, Italian Lakes

  1. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gab View Post
    Hi Rasher,

    Why not? Please see below:
    Kloten > Wassen > Susten > Grimsel > Furka > Chur
    Following the route above it doesn't seem I have to go back to do Susten, Grimsel and Furka in this order...

    Regarding Julier vs Albula, I'll be doing that route on Monday 4 September so I'm not expecting to find a lot of traffic (?!?). In terms of type of route, since we are two up plus luggage I'd probably give my preference to the views rather than "sporting" bends.

    Is the Fluella really that good and definitely better than Julier and Albula? If that's the case I might just sacrifice a bit of time in Como and go for that instead.

    Did the Julier last week at appx 11 am it was 4.5 deg C on the top. We didnt do the Stelvio as it was 0 and snowing. Just done the Neufen today 34 at bottom 16 deg C at top. Weatherpro or similar app is your guide. Dont use BBC weather app in Switzerland its way off, not sure where it sources its data but its between 8 and 10 deg C out

  2. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve hughes View Post
    Did the Julier last week at appx 11 am it was 4.5 deg C on the top. We didnt do the Stelvio as it was 0 and snowing. Just done the Neufen today 34 at bottom 16 deg C at top. Weatherpro or similar app is your guide. Dont use BBC weather app in Switzerland its way off, not sure where it sources its data but its between 8 and 10 deg C out
    Holy s**t

    I'm not expecting September being warmer than July/August. That might result in a big change in terms of itinerary.

    Thanks for the tip on the app. Will download it now.

  3. #51
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    Stelvio, 14 September 2012

    Hot Legs at the bottom, Cool and the Gang at the top




  4. #52
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    Had snow on the top of Stelvio in Early August, also had it boiling up there, same with Nufenen, snowing and blowing a gale one year and toastie on another trip, had the Grimsel with fog so thick tickover in 1st seemed dangerously fast on one trip, ridden it another 4-5 times in baking sunshine.

    No Forecast is accurate in my experience, I have even gathered evidence by noting the forecast for each place I stayed this year using a couple of sites, accuracy was about 50% if going on a simple did it, or did it not rain basis - and that was the forecast the night before so don't even bother looking a few days before you leave - probably best to assume it may or may not rain and may or may not be cold each day, or just guess - that way you will at least match the accuracy of Alpine Weather Forecasts.

  5. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasher View Post
    Had snow on the top of Stelvio in Early August, also had it boiling up there, same with Nufenen, snowing and blowing a gale one year and toastie on another trip, had the Grimsel with fog so thick tickover in 1st seemed dangerously fast on one trip, ridden it another 4-5 times in baking sunshine.

    No Forecast is accurate in my experience, I have even gathered evidence by noting the forecast for each place I stayed this year using a couple of sites, accuracy was about 50% if going on a simple did it, or did it not rain basis - and that was the forecast the night before so don't even bother looking a few days before you leave - probably best to assume it may or may not rain and may or may not be cold each day, or just guess - that way you will at least match the accuracy of Alpine Weather Forecasts.
    As long as the roads are clean I'll be just fine #unstoppable

    Rasher, could you please respond to my post #47?

  6. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gab View Post

    Rasher, could you please respond to my post #47?
    It's time you set out to ride the passes for yourself. There is no definitive right or wrong way to do things, not least as everyone often starts from different places, at different times, on different days, in different weathers, has different expectations, has different time constraints for the day and / or the whole holiday, different ultimate destinations in mind, different views on what they can / want to achieve and on and on and on.

    Plot your route out as you'd like to do it, it is your holiday after all. Or do, as many claim to do, just 'Wing it', #unstoppable.

    Report back when you've done it.

  7. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wapping View Post
    It's time you set out to ride the passes for yourself. There is no definitive right or wrong way to do things, not least as everyone often starts from different places, at different times, on different days, in different weathers, has different expectations, has different time constraints for the day and / or the whole holiday, different ultimate destinations in mind, different views on what they can / want to achieve and on and on and on.

    Plot your route out as you'd like to do it, it is your holiday after all. Or do, as many claim to do, just 'Wing it'. Report back when you've done it.
    Is there anything wrong with what I do? I was having a conversation with one of the members of this forum and every time you seems to feel the need to have your say. What is the reason behind it?

    This is a forum, people exchange opinion and I don't really understand why you always have to write things against me. You were not part of my conversation with Rasher and I don't understand why you felt the need to send this post.

  8. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gab View Post

    This is a forum, people exchange opinion....You were not part of my conversation with Rasher and I don't understand why you felt the need to send this post.
    A reminder for you, just in case you you've forgotten, that you have benefitted from several bits of help:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gab View Post
    Thanks Wapping!
    Quote Originally Posted by Gab View Post
    Hi Wapping,

    Thanks for your reply.

    I was actually reading your thread about the Curves magazine and all the additional information and photos you posted. Impressive!


    It's not a criticism. It's just a gentle push (an opinion exchange, to paraphrase your words) towards hopefully getting going for yourself. Your all but private conversation with Rasher is being conducted on a public forum, people can comment or not on it as much as they like.

    PS If you don't want any other comments or observations, you can put forward just £1 a month towards site subscription. You'll then be able to Private Message Rasher and any other site subscribers to conduct as much of a private conversation on as many aspects of your holiday(s) and life in general as you like. It's great value, I promise.

  9. #57
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    Sorry but it does sound like criticism to me. All the members of the forum are able to have very long conversations on basically anything they want. Why can I not do this?

    As I said, a forum is a place where people exchange opinions, which is exactly what I've been doing and nobody - apart from you - seems to have any issue with this. Everybody has been kind and helpful.

    If the problem is just related to the fact I'm not paying (and will not) £ 1 a month for the subscription than say it clearly and at least I'll know why you are behaving like this. If that's not the case, please let me talk to people without criticising anything I say. Thanks.

    NB: and the only reason why I'm not paying the subscription is because I'm leaving the country in 3 months time and it'd be a waste of money to do so.

  10. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gab View Post
    As long as the roads are clean I'll be just fine #unstoppable

    Rasher, could you please respond to my post #47?
    Yes, because I am stupid

    I somehow assumed you where coming to the Susten from the "Other End", the Susten is a riders delight (Well the side you go down will be, the way up from the East is a bit dull) as is the Grimsel, if you have time take the one way road at the top of the Grimsel down to the Lake, a good lunch spot and the road gives great views, but it will cost you about 1.5 hours.

    The Furka is not such a great riders road, but is very scenic, and you can stop at the Glacier and go inside the ice for a few quid.

  11. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasher View Post
    Yes, because I am stupid

    I somehow assumed you where coming to the Susten from the "Other End", the Susten is a riders delight (Well the side you go down will be, the way up from the East is a bit dull) as is the Grimsel, if you have time take the one way road at the top of the Grimsel down to the Lake, a good lunch spot and the road gives great views, but it will cost you about 1.5 hours.

    The Furka is not such a great riders road, but is very scenic, and you can stop at the Glacier and go inside the ice for a few quid.
    Hi Rasher,

    Thanks for clarifying. So the way I've planned is fine. Glad to hear that.

    I'll see if I can stop by the lake. I'm not sure I'll have an extra 1.5 hours to spend though.

    I've heard about the Furka, but everybody told me that is is very scenic. That's the reason why I want to do it. And it is also the only way for me to get to Chur, where I'll be spending the night before the Timmelsjoch. Good tip about the Glacier, I'll take it into account. Thanks.

  12. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gab View Post
    This is the route I was thinking to do
    Stelvio to Como thru Splugen

    Do you suggest to do either the Albulla or Julier instead?

    Fluella is way too long, unfortunately.
    Er... your planned route goes over Fluellapass (Swiss road 28 to Davos).

    It does however only do half of Stelvio, turning off over Umbrail just after the saddle of the col. It's perfectly good route and should get you there faster than doing the full-Stelvio-plus-Julier route (never mind the longer one I suggested using all three). For me, it'd be a shame to miss doing the full Stelvio if you haven't been before (especially as I actually prefer that southern half dropping down to Bormio to the tighter northern half from Prato). But it has to work for your timings.

    ETA: If you're two up with luggage (just seen the earlier post) then Umbrail is tight and steep but Splugen is tighter, steeper, with hairpins in tunnels… not every pillion's cup of tea. For me, I'd say the open stretch of Julier just about has the edge in terms of scenery but they're all good.

  13. #61
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    +1 on Stelvio comment, the Bormio side is better - but neither are a good "ride" as such, the main attraction is ticking it off your "Biking Roads to ride" list. The views from the top are the best bit IMO, how you get there and back is all much of a muchness for me, the Umbrail is a very decent way back down.

    The Splugen seems to be suffering from "Improvements", I last rode it in 2010 and really enjoyed the rugged nature of it, the Italians appear to be trying to make it far more accessible and seem to be ruining it in the process, and encouraging more tin boxes to drive up it. However it is still a bit of a faff and unlikely to be overly popular with your pillion - except maybe the flat bit at the top by the lake.

    You have a few options here, you could do all of the Stelvio (And having come up the "nasty" ramp the Bormio side will be a joy) from Bormio there are many options, here is a couple of ideas:

    1. Drop down the West ramp of the Stelvio and on to Tirano, then go back up the Bernina pass to St Moritz, onto the Maloja pass to Chiavenna and on to Como.

    2. After the Stelvio take the Gavia Pass (SP29 heading South) - this is narrow and a bit rugged, but also extremely scenic, from here you would probably have no option but to run along the SS39 as time will be too short to go back up the Bernina and over the Maloja, but the Gavia is well worth the effort, despite being rugged and bumpy the Mrs liked it when she was on the back - but not so much when doing the hairpins at the Southern end on her own bike this year.

    Option 1 = Mainly smooth and easy riding

    Option 2 = A few more bumps, maybe worth it for the Gavia - but the Bernina is a right rollocking ride.

  14. #62
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    Simon W & Rasher,

    Thank you very much! That's a hell of a reply!

    In response to both your posts I can say that I have no choice on where to start the route from as we'll be staying in Prato allo Stelvio the night before doing the pass. Therefore I have to start from there. Although I don't mind riding down to Bormio and take the better route from there. In terms of destination I have to get to Como lake (Tremezzina) by dinner time.

    My girlfriend is not bothered by the type of road. She enjoys travelling on a motorbike so much that any road is good for her. I'm used to Italian bumpy roads (Passo dell'Agnello, Colle della Lombarda, etc.) and as long as there is a good scenery to admire I'm fine with them.

    I can see that the Gavia wasn't mentioned before and at the moment what I was considering was three options (posted by one of you two earlier):
    1. Julier Pass
    2. Albula Pass
    3. Fluella Pass
    I can see that the Fluella takes at least a couple of hours longer than the other two. But if you reckon it is really worth it I'll leave the hotel at 7am that morning and just do it. Otherwise I might do one of the other two, but I'm not sure I'd regret not having done the Fluella, which would probably happen

    It seems that I cannot avoid doing the Splugen as it is the faster way to get to Como - it goes straight down. But as I said already, I don't mind bumpy/tight roads.

    Rasher,
    I've checked your itinerary #1 but Tirano is a bit too far from Prato Stelvio and doing the Bernina Pass would not allow me to do any of the passes in the option 1, 2 & 3 above, which would probably be a shame. Also, if I do Tirano > Bernina > Maloja > Chiavenna > Como the ride would be very short (only approx. 4.5 hrs). Itinerary #2 is similar but with the Stelvio as a starting point.

    If you guys think that option 3 (Fluella) is the one to go I'd probably stretch a bit more and with the help of a very early wake up call I'll go for that one.

    I had an idea - hopefully a good one. If I were to stretch a bit the day before, when I do the Timmelsjoch from Chur, I could stop at either Bormio or Livigno, which would allow me to respectively save ±1hr or ±2hrs the morning after as both locations or on my way to Stelvio. That would mean I could do the Fluella Pass saving ±2hrs. What do you think?

  15. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gab View Post

    NB: and the only reason why I'm not paying the subscription is because I'm leaving the country in 3 months time and it'd be a waste of money to do so.
    You've certainly worked hard getting your money's worth, over the year and a half you've been here.

    Enjoy your holiday, wherever and however you go.

  16. #64
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    If you want to be in Como by lunch time surely the 4.5 hour trip is ideal?

    The fluella / Splugen route you posted is 6 hours excluding stops so even if you ride for 6 hours without a break you need to be away at around 7am, when two up we did not like doing much more than 1.5 hours between stops so I would allow 7.5 hours as a minimum for this trip, or 8 hours if a lunch stop is to be had.

    You have plenty of options, all are good for scenery and riding, just decide what is most important to you, doing the stelvio properly or taking in Julier and fluella, plus consider if you really can do a 6 hour ride before lunch bearing in mind you will be leaving the hotel before brekky even on a zero stop strategy.

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